Feelings about being able to fly without MechJeb

[regex]

-opinion redacted-

Would have been better if you'd edited the post to make it look legit.

[tater]

I play KSP manually on a keyboard and mouse in RSS, with skill.

I play KSP manually on a keyboard and mouse in vanilla… so far without a whole lot of skill

[OrbitusII]

I think that not using Mechjeb is, at least in some cases, a sign of a more mature player. I used it a lot when I was less skilled, but now I only ever use it for attitude control on space stations and while docking if I even have it installed. That's not to say that people who use it aren't capable. Maybe they are less skilled, but this game isn't about who is better at space, it's about doing what you want with your space program and if that involves using a flight computer like MJ to get things done, so be it. There's a lot of cool stuff that can be done and using MechJeb or not does not change that fact, it just changes how stuff gets done.

I remember when MJ used to be an incredibly hot topic, with threads getting locked left and right and there being two effective factions on either side of the argument. My standing then and now remains indifferent: you can use MJ or not and I won't care, all that matters to me is that you're doing something. Seeing the community being much more civil is very nice.

Edited August 30, 2014 by OrbitusII

[Kasuha]

Using MechJeb, KER, or any other mod is everyone's choice.

What I don't like are people that when a newbie comes to forums with a question how to solve some particular problem, their first reaction is "you must install MechJeb"

[GreeningGalaxy]

I haven't tried MJ yet, mostly because I can never be bothered to actually go find it and install it when my game already takes 5 minutes to load all the other mods I've installed. It looks like fun, but I'm already just hyperediting my big KSPI ships into orbit because, while I have demonstrated the ability to make gigantic lifters to loft them the right way, my computer has not done so well with part counts in the upper 600s, and sitting through a launch at 1 frame per second isn't a lot of fun, nor is trying to dock the last section to a ship of 300 parts much of a good time either. Although it's probably what I should be doing at this point.

If I'm not derailing the thread too much, does anyone know of any mods that completely disable part-on-part wobble? That's one element of realism I'm willing to forgo, especially since a) having to calculate high part counts is making my computer cry, and I have yet to run into any wobble problem that can't be fixed with a few struts, so why not skip the struts and make everything cleaner and smoother?

I'm assuming that would work or at least help a little, but correct me if I'm wrong about that.

[Alshain]

I don't use MechJeb because I fly better than it can. It's really simple as that for me. I can easily beat it's fuel performance, it goes wonky sometimes especially when you tell it to dock, and to me (and this is my OPINION) it feels like cheating. Now, the last time I used it was about 8 months ago so it may have gotten better but now that I can fly I don't see myself going back ever.

[rkman]

What does mechjeb do, exactly?

Depends on what you let it do: anything from providing information that many people consider essenstial to rockterty (available delta-v, thrust-to-weight ratio), all the way to automatic ascent, orbital transfer, landing. And anything in-between. For instance i do not use the lading autopilot but i do use the vertical speed limiter ("translatron") and "time to impact" and "time to suicide burn".

[Speeding Mullet]

For me MechJeb was useful for "watch and copy" learning during my earlier KSP days. Then when my ships started getting steadily more and more ridiculous I found that it was really useful in the engineering phase and also for those long slow burns, or when you've got no hope of manually controlling the prodigiously large 894 part colossus you are trying to launch into space. Sometimes even mj can't help you there:

One of the things I really enjoy about this game is that you make a personal choice in how to play it. As that choice varies over time you can bring in or remove tools like mj and others to assist in your game play. At the moment for example I am using mj extensively in my Sunrise Manifest mission report, and have a separate game running pure stock. Both are incredibly good fun, and present their own challenges regardless of mj's use.

[moogoob]

Mechjeb is great and I use it all the time - but that doesn't mean I can't follow a manouver node or perform an ascent manually. I mostly like it for the ascent autopilot, as that really is the most repetitive part of any mission and I can go put coffee on or something while that happens.

The only maneuver I'm horrid at and can't perform manually without Mechjeb is orbital rendezvous (yet!, I said this once about docking and Mun landings, and do both manually all the time now)

[steve_v]

Holding that node for 10+ minute IP burns really sucks - I mean I could do it myself, but then I can't alt-tab and play some Doom2 or drink a beer while I wait can I?

In career mode you don't get the lazy aids for a while anyway. I recon the 'learn how to fly, then automate the boring bits' mechanic is working pretty well.

IMHO rendezvous is pretty straight forward if you use maneuver nodes to get the transfer, do a bunch of tiny RCS corrections on the way, then set your nav to 'target' for the velocity matching. Or just watch MechJeb do it

The custom info windows are incredibly usefull, I could happily play without the automation, but knowing eg. fuel time remaining while landing - that is just basic instrumentation in any lander. Sure you can just eyeball it, but Apollo didn't so why should I?

RPM comes close on the instrumentation if you like flying IVA, but MJ+RPM is even better

Edited August 30, 2014 by steve_v

[Harry Rhodan]

Right now I let MJ put my rockets into orbit and do docking manually because that's more fun to me.

[TimePeriod]

I have never used MJ and most likely never will. I don't think its a form of cheating either.

I just play the game like I want.

[Felsmak]

What does mechjeb do, exactly?

It basically flies your rocket for you. Takeoff, landing, orbital maneuvers - anything you want.

[eempc]

I played the first 200 of my 1000 clocked hours without MJ, so I can pretty much pilot everything manually should I ever lose MJ. Some things I do better than MJ (e.g. spaceplane ascent and docking with more leftover fuel) and some things MJ does better than me (e.g. pinpoint landing with 5 metres of a target). But I use MJ simply because I'd prefer to watch TV or grab a snack while my 10 minute burn completes. Of course I can hold my course manually for that 10 minute burn but having done that a million times already, it's no longer my idea of fun.

I hate to bring RL concepts into a video game forum but autopilots that are much more advanced than MJ exist. For example, the ESA's ATV "... use GPS and a star tracker to automatically rendezvous with the [international] Space Station. At a distance of 249 m, the ATV computers use videometer and telegoniometer data for final approach and docking manoeuvres. The actual docking to Zvezda is fully automatic."

Would anyone consider the ESA to be a bunch of cheating noobs? /s

[rkman]

It basically flies your rocket for you. Takeoff, landing, orbital maneuvers - anything you want.

And only if you want it to.

[magnemoe]

I use mechjeb for most of my burns, simply as its more accurate. Same for accent and landing, the exception is landing on bodies with atmosphere and want to save fuel as mechjeb use a pretty overpowered deorbit burn, this increase accuracy but accuracy is pretty pointless if you don't have enough fuel to brake

Only thing mechjeb can do who I have not done myself is landing on Tylo, mostly as the final decent require so high accuracy with the trust, you can not hover too long or you run out of fuel,

[magnemoe]

Right now I let MJ put my rockets into orbit and do docking manually because that's more fun to me.

It also saves fuel/ monoprop,

You are also smart, say you want to rendezvous with an space station and only have 60 m/s left, you will be very careful and take lots of orbits to get close and match the small speed difference. If you have a spaceplane with 600 m/s left you can do an 150 m/s burn and then a new 150 m/s burn to match up as you have lots of fuel to burn.

[jinxville]

I started playing ksp on .13 and did everything manually this was before nodes and such so i had to figure out how to reach orbit, circularize, land and get home all manually.

however now with so much so get to such massive distances and ever more taxing and exhaustive manuevers to learn mechjeb really takes the strain off but i still switch to manual for fine tuning orbit landings transfers etc.

but when it comes to reaching orbit mechjeb really makes it more fun as i can turn it off if i want but reaching orbit is a pain after the 1000th time, so id say if you wanna do manual you will see more of the game but for those of us who have been playing a while mechjeb makes a lot of sense.

[SRV Ron]

All new users should learn how to fly manually. Once they get good at it they can make the choice to use Mechjeb to automate the repetitious process of launching payloads into orbit or to another location for the purpose of building stations, bases, or assembling that big rocket for deep space exploration.

[Roadkill]

That is not true, at all EndOfTheEarth, for the 3 first topics you number.

When you learn to do all the things MJ does, and improve yourself with time and experience, you will surpass easily MJ in it's doings.

And for you to know, Mj do wrong a lot of times, is easy to see it going crazy. These are bugs, not always avoided, and some times it get into catastrophes.

So, The best is Learn manually everything in game, and then, you can use Mj. That way you can avoid been lost.

I am the one that like to build and do missions, and fix wrong projects do not lost crew of missions. And today i only fly with Mj. Don't use it to everything, but it is my big tool in the game.

From PE to AP, speed, all the info that help been on screen, to show land predictions, but i prefer to point and do the manoeuvers my self in big part of it.

Mechjeb is a tool. Like any other tool it takes time and practice to learn to use it effectively. When one does learn to use it effectively, the speed with which you can repeat certain tasks, like landing on target with multiple crafts for a Mun base, is unmatched. Those of you that say you can outperform mechjeb with tasks like that simply haven't learned to use the tool. I couild say that I can lay shingles on a roof with a hammer faster than a nail gun. Upon closer inspection, one would find that I didn't know I was supposed to use an air compressor with my nail gun.

[Linear]

Seriously, most people use mechjeb because a lot of flying is pretty boring.

[jinxville]

Mechjeb is a tool. Like any other tool it takes time and practice to learn to use it effectively. When one does learn to use it effectively, the speed with which you can repeat certain tasks, like landing on target with multiple crafts for a Mun base, is unmatched. Those of you that say you can outperform mechjeb with tasks like that simply haven't learned to use the tool. I couild say that I can lay shingles on a roof with a hammer faster than a nail gun. Upon closer inspection, one would find that I didn't know I was supposed to use an air compressor with my nail gun.

or indeed realise that the roof is in fact in the basement and you are missing an arm...and you have lost the nails.

[Barney]

I only use mechjeb to get those fancy numbers about orbits and other things. Sometimes with big rockets that lag like hell i use mechjeb and 2x or 3x timewarp to get to less laggy point of flight.

[jinxville]

like i say it's a companion to the game but you can work without it, the very fact that virtually no computer guidance is bundled with the early versions we are playing means the game as is has no little to no need of it.

still it's a timesaver and like other mods i hope it will get into the final game proper.

Edited August 30, 2014 by jinxville

[EdFred]

I've successfully done everything manually - and sometimes better than MJ does. I use it now for ascents, circularizing and IP burns, and information. The display of aerobraking node is probably the best thing about it, followed by the landing calculator. Not the landing autopilot, but the calculator. There's no reason the stock game shouldn't have those two things. I basically use it now because I've done everything manually. After a couple thousand ascents and IP burns doing them over and over is just wasteful. Climb to 6k, pitch slightly, pitch more at 10, be almost horizontal at 50, repeat ad infinitum. On Eve it's the same thing just with different altitudes. Zzzzzzzzzzz. I've manually landed on every body in the system within 1km of where I was aiming for. Doing those things again and again, doesn't prove anything. I still create my dV nodes manually, and then turn the burn over to MJ. If your ego is so fragile that you feel not using MechJeb makes you better than me, fine.

I have a dishwasher so I don't have to do the mundane task of washing dishes by hand.

I have a washing machine so I don't have to hand wash.

I have an electric garage door opener so I don't have to get out of the car, open the garage, and pull my car in.

I have a toilet so I don't have to walk outside, dig a hole in the frozen ground, pop a squat, and then bury it.

I have an oven/range so I don't have to gather wood, build a fire, and wait for the coals to get to the right temperature three times a day.

I have a remote control so I don't have to manually click through 642 channels on the TV.

I have a database program so I don't have to manually track 20,000 different items between 1100 customers.

I write macros for said database so I don't have to manually parse the data.

I have a calculator so I don't have to manually multiply 56,349 x 1,382.

I have a semi-auto rifle so I don't have to measure powder, put the cloth in the barrel, pack it in, load the ball...

I have MechJeb so I can skip mundane tasks that I've already done numerous times.

But hey feel free to go dig holes in your yard.