CatastrophicFailure Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Hi, this has probably been covered somewhere in the thread but I'm not seeing it at all in the wiki either. Basically, how can I turn off/waaay down science gain from Development? Just using the default profile I'm getting like 16 science/day, and when it takes 20-30 days to build a rocket, kinda killing the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSE Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 It's the Research item in the R&D section of KCT's Upgrades menu. You can reset the upgrades and then allocate fewer points to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJaguar Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I'm also still using Construction Time. The only issue the lack of an inventory system is causing for me is that it makes airplanes less useful. Before, an aircraft that returned to the space center and recovered intact could be rebuilt and turned around fairly quickly, not unlike a standard refueling and servicing. It's not too bad, since I don't use airplanes much after I'm done early game science grinding, and I do have a workaround: save the game after starting construction, then edit the build points in the save with a text editor and reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 47 minutes ago, JetJaguar said: I'm also still using Construction Time. The only issue the lack of an inventory system is causing for me is that it makes airplanes less useful. Before, an aircraft that returned to the space center and recovered intact could be rebuilt and turned around fairly quickly, not unlike a standard refueling and servicing. It's not too bad, since I don't use airplanes much after I'm done early game science grinding, and I do have a workaround: save the game after starting construction, then edit the build points in the save with a text editor and reload. The recover to storage option still exists, which should allow airplanes to turn around really fast. Just make sure to edit them so they don't point straight up on the runway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJaguar Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Oh yeah, I forgot all about recovering to storage. I stopped using that awhile ago for some reason I don't remember, but I'll give it another try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, JetJaguar said: Oh yeah, I forgot all about recovering to storage. I stopped using that awhile ago for some reason I don't remember, but I'll give it another try. It is quite buggy sometimes and doesn't always reset things that should be reset (though that can be fixed by adding some things to a config file, there's a tutorial on github). It works best with stock parts and can be basically useless with things like procedural parts. KSP doesn't really support going from a fully loaded vessel back into a craft file, so things can get pretty weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybot Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 22 hours ago, magico13 said: It is quite buggy sometimes and doesn't always reset things that should be reset (though that can be fixed by adding some things to a config file, there's a tutorial on github). Is this the same as it's always been or made complicated by 1.2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Tybot said: Is this the same as it's always been or made complicated by 1.2? Should be the same as before. But without the inventory, build times when editing might still be a bit off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eberkain Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 There are two features that I would like to be able to disable. Investing points in research so that you get science points from building craft, and then being able to spend science to upgrade the production rates. It seems like a closed loop system that lets you just infinitely improve. You invest X funds to build a vessel, which in turn gives you Y science points and you recover the vessel to get back X funds. Then you can invest the free science into the production rate, which makes the process of getting more science go faster, which lets you in turn increase the rate you can build which gives you science points faster. So in the long run you get something that just increases exponentially without any external input. I would vote to remove completely the option of gaining science from construction. If you want the mod to have a "the more you build the faster you build" cycle, then I think it should not be science points, but some other point, so you can't arbitrarily boost that by investing science points. I've always loved the mod, still a cornerstone of my career playthorugh, I just fell that it might could do with some design tweaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, eberkain said: There are two features that I would like to be able to disable. Investing points in research so that you get science points from building craft, and then being able to spend science to upgrade the production rates. Well, the good news is that A) KSP is a single player game so you don't have to use those features if you don't like them, KSP is about personal goals and challenges after all, and B) you already can disable them, just change the settings to turn them both off. Personally I just never use either of them, they were just things people wanted to have the option of doing and the default Preset has everything active by default so that people can experience any aspect of the mod without having to go into the settings screen. If your concern is for a publicly available challenge where you want everyone to use the same settings, or you're just interested in how unbelievably configurable KCT is, I highly recommend reading (or at least skimming) the three pages on the wiki discussing Presets, starting with the Overview page, then the internals page, and finally about the math parser and built in functions. In general in the past I've tried my hardest not to remove anything from KCT but instead to add community requested features as options. This allows for continuously increasing numbers of play styles to suit any type of player, from the casual "I just want to not launch 20 ships and land on the Mun and still have it be day one" to the hardcore "I want to precisely match the evolution of rocketry from the 1960s until now (aka RP-0)" I will admit that I haven't seriously played KSP since around 0.90 so I'm not sure how balanced things really are anymore. That's also why this mod has been ridiculously stagnant. Btw, you'll want to set ResearchFormula = "-1" and UpgradeScienceFormula = "-1" to turn those features off completely. Then either just save, or save it as a new Preset so you can use it in other saves or back it up for later (or sharing. Everybody loves sharing!) Edited February 18, 2017 by magico13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cami Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 When I start a simulation in orbit, it always comes up over australia, no matter what starting time I enter. This is unfortunate because I have no signal coverage there. I also cannot disable remote tech as the flight computer is exactly what I want to test. How can I make the spacecraft spawn above the spacecenter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoman314 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 10 hours ago, magico13 said: Well, the good news is that A) KSP is a single player game so you don't have to use those features if you don't like them, KSP is about personal goals and challenges after all, Very True. 10 hours ago, magico13 said: I will admit that I haven't seriously played KSP since around 0.90 so I'm not sure how balanced things really are anymore. That's also why this mod has been ridiculously stagnant. That's a bummer dude. Jump back in! the water in here in 1.2 is nice and warm. (But seriously, the game is better than ever!) I now appreciate your work updating KCT and also Stage Recovery, even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightiesboi Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 23 hours ago, magico13 said: I will admit that I haven't seriously played KSP since around 0.90 so I'm not sure how balanced things really are anymore. That's also why this mod has been ridiculously stagnant. That's so funny, in that I haven't played in about a year because I've been waiting for KSP to stabilize (which it seems it finally has) and for my last two must-have mods (this one and DRE) to be updated. On the one hand, this self-enforced delay has gotten me to play a whole bunch of other games in the interim. On the other, it has allowed my desire to create a space program from scratch One More Time(tm) to build back up. I think I am going to pull the trigger at the end of next weekend. I have to go to Seattle next Friday, and when I return, I think that will be a perfect time to send some Kerbals to their fiery deaths... I mean, send some Kerbals into space. (Same thing, actually. Well, maybe not without DRE.) magico13, you've done a lot for the modding community. If you are truly done, please accept my thanks--you made my game experience so much better and more immersive. Squad made a great base, but the actions of you and your fellow modders are what really has made this game an all-time favorite for so many of us--and the fact you did it on your own, for no real compensation, is amazing. If you are even in San Francisco, PM me and let me buy you a coffee, a beer, or a Tesla. Okay, probably not the Tesla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidAndy Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 I'm not screaming and yelling OMG WHY IZNT DIS DUN!!! WHEN WIL DIS B DONE ARR but is there something that changed between 1.0 or something to now that changed to do something to the simulations and inventory system? I'm just wondering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightiesboi Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 2 hours ago, StupidAndy said: I'm not screaming and yelling OMG WHY IZNT DIS DUN!!! WHEN WIL DIS B DONE ARR but is there something that changed between 1.0 or something to now that changed to do something to the simulations and inventory system? I'm just wondering... Hi there. I know this is a long topic (109 pages so far), but if you read the first page and skimmed back just one or two pages you would find out two things: 1. The simulation system is no longer part of KCT, and 2. The inventory system is indeed broken. If you want to use KCT just for the time element, you can download the dev build. The fact that magico13 has done any work at all on a mod for a game he isn't actively playing is pretty amazing. And it's a good thing you aren't screaming, as that won't really get you anywhere. Fly well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eberkain Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 On 2/17/2017 at 6:31 PM, magico13 said: Well, the good news is that A) KSP is a single player game so you don't have to use those features if you don't like them, KSP is about personal goals and challenges after all, and B) you already can disable them, just change the settings to turn them both off. Personally I just never use either of them, they were just things people wanted to have the option of doing and the default Preset has everything active by default so that people can experience any aspect of the mod without having to go into the settings screen. If your concern is for a publicly available challenge where you want everyone to use the same settings, or you're just interested in how unbelievably configurable KCT is, I highly recommend reading (or at least skimming) the three pages on the wiki discussing Presets, starting with the Overview page, then the internals page, and finally about the math parser and built in functions. In general in the past I've tried my hardest not to remove anything from KCT but instead to add community requested features as options. This allows for continuously increasing numbers of play styles to suit any type of player, from the casual "I just want to not launch 20 ships and land on the Mun and still have it be day one" to the hardcore "I want to precisely match the evolution of rocketry from the 1960s until now (aka RP-0)" I will admit that I haven't seriously played KSP since around 0.90 so I'm not sure how balanced things really are anymore. That's also why this mod has been ridiculously stagnant. Btw, you'll want to set ResearchFormula = "-1" and UpgradeScienceFormula = "-1" to turn those features off completely. Then either just save, or save it as a new Preset so you can use it in other saves or back it up for later (or sharing. Everybody loves sharing!) You sir are awesome, thanks for the response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 11 hours ago, StupidAndy said: I'm not screaming and yelling OMG WHY IZNT DIS DUN!!! WHEN WIL DIS B DONE ARR but is there something that changed between 1.0 or something to now that changed to do something to the simulations and inventory system? I'm just wondering... The simulation system was removed because KRASH does it better and then I have less to maintain. Similarly, KCT used to have a parachute based recovery system for the inventory which got forked into StageRecovery. StageRecovery got to the point that KCT's version was just crappy in comparison so I removed KCT's and just use StageRecovery for that ancillary feature. 1.2 added a change to parts that wasn't going to be able to be handled by the previous part inventory: part upgrades. That, combined with the handful of hacks that I made to get other mods supported (TweakScale, Procedural Parts), made it so the part inventory really just needed to be rewritten to handle all of these situations and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielboro Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 16 hours ago, magico13 said: KRASH does it better i have a different opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darvo110 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 19 hours ago, danielboro said: i have a different opinion Then feel free to fork the repo and add it back in for yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, danielboro said: i have a different opinion 1 hour ago, darvo110 said: Then feel free to fork the repo and add it back in for yourself I've been wanting to port it over to a modlet anyway, so I started doing that tonight. It's like, maybe, a third of the way there. Without any systems to build off of it's a bit more complicated to set up. It's a little beyond a regular modlet since it will involve saving to the save file, a config file, and depends on MagiCore, but it will be almost identical to KCT's old simulations since it's a fork. Except I'm planning on using the contract configurator style of spawning vessels automatically in the right orbits instead of moving them like HyperEdit, which means antenna won't get ripped off if they're extended. I'd like to make it so you can restart a simulation with different orbital parameters in case you chose bad ones without having to pay all over again, for when you are testing with communication networks, but getting it working at all is higher priority. Edit: Actually, I just had an idea. It'd be a deviation from the regular KCT model but would solve the "I just bought a year worth of simulation time and forgot an antenna" issue. Instead of purchasing simulation time for a particular vessel and if you don't use it all it's wasted, why not instead purchase "Supercomputer Time" and each vessel has a Complexity, where a more Complex vessel requires more Supercomputer Time per unit of time inside the simulation. Then you purchase Supercomputer Time and can allocate it however you want (a bunch of smaller vessels, a big vessel for a short time, a small vessel for a really long time, etc). If you forgot an antenna, it's no big deal since you can just revert and only use up a small amount of time. Note that this is pretty similar to how actual simulations are performed, except that issues aren't always noticed right away Edited February 21, 2017 by magico13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielboro Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 @darvo110 alas i lack the needed knowledge @magico13 YAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eberkain Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 8 hours ago, magico13 said: Edit: Actually, I just had an idea. It'd be a deviation from the regular KCT model but would solve the "I just bought a year worth of simulation time and forgot an antenna" issue. Instead of purchasing simulation time for a particular vessel and if you don't use it all it's wasted, why not instead purchase "Supercomputer Time" and each vessel has a Complexity, where a more Complex vessel requires more Supercomputer Time per unit of time inside the simulation. Then you purchase Supercomputer Time and can allocate it however you want (a bunch of smaller vessels, a big vessel for a short time, a small vessel for a really long time, etc). If you forgot an antenna, it's no big deal since you can just revert and only use up a small amount of time. Note that this is pretty similar to how actual simulations are performed, except that issues aren't always noticed right away I really like the sound of this, I too do not use KRASH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoman314 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 That does sound cool, but I'll put in my 2 cents worth and say I'd much rather see the part inventory back (which is missing) before we get a cool simulation system like you describe (when we do already have a functional option). That said, I can understand if you're burnt out on one area, and want a change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxgurugamer Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 On 2/20/2017 at 1:59 AM, danielboro said: i have a different opinion So I'm curious what you don't like about KRASH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Snoman314 said: That does sound cool, but I'll put in my 2 cents worth and say I'd much rather see the part inventory back (which is missing) before we get a cool simulation system like you describe (when we do already have a functional option). That said, I can understand if you're burnt out on one area, and want a change Yeah, at this point me working on anything to get back into it is a good sign. I put in a bit of work over the weekend on the part inventory but there's still a lot to go. I figured last night I'd try to port over KCT's old simulation code to remind me of how KSP mods are structured and since it's already written it'd be a quick way for me to finish something and get that good feeling when you finish something that can help keep you going on other, bigger, stuff. The part inventory is frustrating me a bit since I can make it work without KCT much easier than I can with KCT. Especially because I'm trying to make it so you don't have to use the part inventory, so no hard dependencies. The biggest issue is with how they remove parts from the inventory. A KCT ship does it when added to the build list, but without KCT it has to happen at rollout. At rollout I need to verify that KCT (or another mod) hasn't already processed it. The issue is that KCT assigns an id to a ship when it gets added to the build list, and KSP assigns an id to a ship when it's added to the world, but 1) those ids aren't linked in any way, 2) I don't think I can get KSP's id until the ship is loaded, and 3) it doesn't matter because I don't have the whole ship during the OnVesselRollout event anyway so I can't get either id easily. So I'm having them talk through a module applied to the root part where I can put an id for the vessel. It's goofy and I haven't tested it yet. I'm also adding in the individual part tracker, but haven't made the general part tracker. Or a way to actually take parts out of the inventory (the parts are a lot more specific than before and you have to take fully fledged parts out, not just parts by the same name). Lot's of hurdles still. The core is there though and technically works, but it isn't tied into anything and while functional, is not "playable". 12 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said: So I'm curious what you don't like about KRASH? Btw, I just wanted to say that KRASH is still going to be the one recommended by KCT even if I port the old code over to a modlet. That's just something I'm doing for fun. I've been using KRASH on my playthrough and have liked it so far, though I haven't done anything crazy with it. Personally the funds counter going up continuously adds a bit of anxiety, though I can add a strict max if I'm worried about it. In some ways I still like the pay before method that KCT used to use, even though it would end up being more costly, but that might just be because I'm still used to that. I like the presentation a lot though, from what I've used. Edited February 21, 2017 by magico13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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