Alpha Centauri

[Northstar1989]

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri

Probably the best game ever created after KSP. Does anyone else here still play it?

Regards,

Northstar

P.S. And PLEASE don't talk to me about "Sid Meier's: Beyond Earth". It's not really much of a tribute/ spiritual successor to Alpha Centauri when you look at its gameplay mechanics, and only keeps the "Sid Meier" part as a legacy- that great game designer had absolutely no part in designing it. Also, it's a silly and broken game- thanks it part to the "one unit per tile" rule they decided to keep from Civilization V (which is also a broken and silly game, thanks especially to one-unit-per-tile and all the balance changes that led to- go play Civilization IV if you want a *good* Civilization game)

[Guest]

Alien life form detected!

[MartGonzo]

Drone Riots!

yep, still the best ever 4x game

[ZedNova]

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri

Probably the best game ever created after KSP. Does anyone else here still play it?

Regards,

Northstar

P.S. And PLEASE don't talk to me about "Sid Meier's: Beyond Earth". It's not really much of a tribute/ spiritual successor to Alpha Centauri when you look at its gameplay mechanics, and only keeps the "Sid Meier" part as a legacy- that great game designer had absolutely no part in designing it. Also, it's a silly and broken game- thanks it part to the "one unit per tile" rule they decided to keep from Civilization V (which is also a broken and silly game, thanks especially to one-unit-per-tile and all the balance changes that led to- go play Civilization IV if you want a *good* Civilization game)

Have you played Civ V with one or more of the expansion packs?( Specifically; Gods and kings, or Brave new world) It's a pretty awesome game, and the one unit per tile rule is actually nice because there's no more annoying endless unit stacking like Civ IV.

[Red Iron Crown]

One of my all time favorites, probably only exceeded by KSP and Civilization in hours played for me. Has features that to this day haven't been matched in other Civ-style games, like supply units, customizable units and true 3d terrain.

[Vanamonde]

It seems I am the only person in history to not like this game.

[Red Iron Crown]

It seems I am the only person in history to not like this game.

You might be surprised. When it was released there was a whole subculture of Civilization purists who scoffed at the sci-fi elements of SMAC.

I am curious about why you didn't like it, though. Did you like other games of the genre?

[Kryten]

Have you played Civ V with one or more of the expansion packs?( Specifically; Gods and kings, or Brave new world) It's a pretty awesome game, and the one unit per tile rule is actually nice because there's no more annoying endless unit stacking like Civ IV.

You're talking to a guy who declares a game that hasn't even had a demo release 'broken'. I'm not sure why you're expecting logical arguments.

[Godot]

I loved the game .... and especially the faction of Prokhor Zakharov .... but nope, haven´t played it for years

[Vanamonde]

My reasons for disliking AC:

Emphasis on conflict:

No improvement over the original Civ's really rather tedious combat system. Make units, collect them, march them to the front, watch them get destroyed, make more, collect them, march them to the front, etc., etc. Also, all the Civ games have crappy AI that just attacks and attacks and attacks, even when there's nothing to be gained by conflict. In AC, though, it was an even bigger nuisance, as the Believer faction of religious fanatics would literally march units all the way from the other side of the planet to start a war with you, and just keep coming, so that after the first time you encountered them, you'd never be left in peace again unless you wiped that faction out.

Useless diplomacy

The Civ game AI's are also obnoxious negotiators. They're always trying to blackmail you into giving them freebies, and then whether you do or not, they will eventually go to war with you. I used to leave difficulty on low, and when somebody attacked me, never bother to make peace until I had wiped that faction out. It was the ONLY way to make lasting peace in those games.

Heavy-handed environmental message

As your industry increased its output, the planet started attacking you with an inexhaustible supply of mindworms. You had to either hobble your own development by limiting your own industry, or engage in even more constant, tedious, laborious combat.

I just did not care for this game at all. It felt like a constant uphill slog just to be left alone long enough to develop my country.

[megatiger78]

civ V civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth civ beyond earth civ V civ beyond earth

[Nibb31]

The diplomacy in Civ 5 made it unplayable. Whatever you did to please the AIs, they would always attack you out of the blank, even if it was completely dumb. You really just had to ignore the diplomacy and play as a free for all until they were all destroyed.

[Guest]

1. Rise terrain around your cites.

2. Propose and lobby "Rise Sea Level"

3. Profit.

[megatiger78]

The diplomacy in Civ 5 made it unplayable. Whatever you did to please the AIs, they would always attack you out of the blank, even if it was completely dumb. You really just had to ignore the diplomacy and play as a free for all until they were all destroyed.

I always do that anyway.

[Godot]

My reasons for disliking AC:

Emphasis on conflict:

No improvement over the original Civ's really rather tedious combat system. Make units, collect them, march them to the front, watch them get destroyed, make more, collect them, march them to the front...

I would disagree there.

The combat system of SMAC IMHO was a step above the normal combat system insofar as you could create your own units as a combination of engine, weapons, armor and special payload.

I actually hoped (at this time) that Sid Meier would incorporate something similar into the next incarnation of Civ (like some kind of troop editor wher you could choose weapons, amor, mode of transportation and so on and the result would determine the troops attack, armor, hitpoints, movement, special capabilities and costs).

(one civ-like game where such a thing has been successfully incorporated would be Elemental/Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes)

[Vanamonde]

The combat system of SMAC IMHO was a step above the normal combat system insofar as you could create your own units as a combination of engine, weapons, armor and special payload.

That was an interesting innovation, but even so, combat always meant one of the units was destroyed, and that meant marching replacements over from the points of production. over and over and over and... Quite tedious.

[KSK]

Two words: Drop pods.

Granted they came rather late in the game but they were great fun to use when you got them. And mindworms - why with the right tech, one faction's horrific plague becomes another faction's endless supply of troops. On a more serious note, I found that the units (beyond basic infantry) were fast enough that supply line logistics didn't tend to become too much of a slog.

I loved SMAC/X back in the day. Haven't played it for a while though, and yes - the diplomacy was definitely the weaker part of the game. I know each faction was built around their own agenda but that did lead to some appallingly flimsy excuses for going to war with you. *cough* Morgan - I'm looking at you.

[Red Iron Crown]

I had great fun playing "hard mode" where you produce no new bases, and any you capture must be turned into colony pods asap. Lots of supply crawlers and supply boats.

[Northstar1989]

Useless diplomacy

The Civ game AI's are also obnoxious negotiators. They're always trying to blackmail you into giving them freebies, and then whether you do or not, they will eventually go to war with you. I used to leave difficulty on low, and when somebody attacked me, never bother to make peace until I had wiped that faction out. It was the ONLY way to make lasting peace in those games.

The AI is agenda-driven, and heavily influenced by civics. So if you adopt "Free Market" than the Morganites (basically a corporate/capitalist state) will be happy with you, whereas if you adopt "Green" economics, the Gaians (peace-loving eco-hippies) will be happy with you. The secret is to learn you can't make EVERYONE happy. It's quite easy to pick up a couple of factions as permanent "Pact Brothers/Sisters" though (if you have Cooperative victory on- so they don't feel the need to eventually turn on you to have a shot at winning) as long as you maintain the correct civics to make them happy.

There's also this *little* thing called the UN Charter you need to worry about. Are you *sure* you were aware of the basic rules the other factions were expecting you to play by? They expect you to share most of your scientific discoveries, for instance, as it is a provision under the UN Charter:

If you didn't like constantly being requested to share your science under the UN Charter (which also bans things like nukes, nerve-stapling, use of mind-control devices, use of nerve gas, biological warfare with genetically-engineered viruses, and direct genocidal attacks on civilian populations; all of which atrocities there ARE ways to commit in the game) then you should have called a UN Council meeting and held a vote to repeal the charter. Beware, though, that also opens up the door to thermonuclear war being considered morally-acceptable by the other factions...

Heavy-handed environmental message

As your industry increased its output, the planet started attacking you with an inexhaustible supply of mindworms. You had to either hobble your own development by limiting your own industry, or engage in even more constant, tedious, laborious combat.

*IS* the environmental message so heavy-handed? I never had that experience- and I regularly played as the [uN] Peacekeepers (their larger population = greater environmental impact) and adopted Free Market economics and Democracy with a focus on industry and an emphasis on Knowledge. The keys to not causing too much eco-damage (and thus incurring lots of grief from the mind-worms) were to build the appropriate base facilities (such as the Centauri Preserve) and Secret Projects (such as the Pholus Mutagen) to reduce or negate your environmental impact.

Coupled with that, you don't want to disrupt too much of the ecosytem outside your cities- covering the map with farms and mines is SURE to damage the relatively fragile desert/fungus environment of Planet regardless of how little industry you have (like in real life, territorial integrity of an ecosystem affects its ability to adapt to man-made environmental challenges). Instead, you should plant lots of forests- which actually REDUCE environmental impact by a small amount, and produce notable late-game yields with the appropriate base facilities. Plus, since they spread/re-grow on their own, forests eventually multiply your terraforming efforts as they cover entire continents with trees (despite the criticism this got from some players, it was actually highly realistic- on a planet like in SMAC, Earth-trees would be an *Invasive Species* with no natural predators or pathogens- and would quickly out-compete most of the local flora. It also doesn't hurt that the especially Nitrogen-rich reducing atmosphere and abundance of Nitrogen-fixing bacteria/fungus was like heaven to Earth plants- in Earth's oxidizing atmosphere, Nitrogen-shortage is one of the MAJOR obstacles to the growth of crops/trees/gardens...)

Of course, I'm a graduate-trained biologist in real life, so I'm kind of at an unfair advantage when it comes to intuitively knowing what sort of things to avoid if I don't want to mess up the environment too bad.

Regards,

Northstar

P.S. The one thing I always felt was missing from SMAC was the ability of your forests to eventually make the atmosphere breathable to humans/animals if you managed to plant enough trees. This could have provided a major growth bonus in your cities, and been toxic to the Nitrogen "breathing" wildlife and fungus... Earth, like "Planet", had a reducing atmosphere in its early history- but the accumulated efforts of large numbers of photosynthesizing plants eventually turned it into the oxidizing atmosphere we know and love today.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Vanamonde]

I'm not saying there weren't reasons within the game for those factors, Northstar1989. I am saying that, for me personally, they made the game un-fun to play.