The Grand 0.25 Discussion Thread

[StainX]

Yeah, i really think squad should keep their eyes focused on the simulation & graphics & "smoothing stuff", i mean stuff like: life support, reentry heat, clouds, wind&weather, more space centers, vessel info, editor handling,...

I mean, i love Squad for developing such a great game, that i already played for infinite hours, but i think the updates are going a bit the wrong way here (although new plane parts are awesome), the game is just getting easier with each update. My personal last "exciting new big feature" was docking... back in 0.18

[Sky_walker]

So it would be safe for us to assume that you're not enjoying the latest update?

Yes, I don't enjoy patches that introduce more bugs than fixes nor patches that make science along with funds even more meaninless than they already were, nor patches that add features almost noone ever asked for (aka. destroyable buildings) while there are many much more essential things waiting on that people been asking on a forum for ages.

Try to understand how ridiculous this situation is - they spent days on adding a new feature (destroyable buildings - which mean whole new set of models, balancing and (something that partially will benefit future upgradeable buildings) scripts) that's beneficial basically only for people using one, very specific mod, which isn't even in top-10 of most popular KSP mods (the weaponry mod) while at the same time breaks the game for everyone else trying to play the game with it enabled.

Yeah, i really think squad should keep their eyes focused on the simulation & graphics & "smoothing stuff", i mean stuff like: life support, reentry heat, clouds, wind&weather, more space centers, vessel info, editor handling,...

I mean, i love Squad for developing such a great game, that i already played for infinite hours, but i think the updates are going a bit the wrong way here (although new plane parts are awesome), the game is just getting easier with each update. My personal last "exciting new big feature" was docking... back in 0.18

I don't know about that "last exciting big feature" as I've been here for less than half a year, but other than that: 100% agreed.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Sky_walker

[Moss]

I'm not sure if this is the place for this, but the version that I have crashes as soon as it goes to the title screen, whereas 0.24 worked fine. I'm not running mods, and I assume it's because the new parts and models take up more memory. I'm on 32Bit Windows with a mere 8gigs of RAM. Just wondering if this happens to anyone else.

[O-Doc]

I really hate to say this. I've had a QQ moment half an hour into 0.25. Sorry Squad, the quality control is non-existent on this one. You guys are paying too much attention to the hype-train threads. I was really looking forward to this update too.

I knew I was going to have to do some work to rebuild my spaceplanes but the new wings make planes look like patchwork quilts. So, all of my planes have to be rebuilt and most of them are going to look silly. Unless you're into that quilty goodness. That's not to mention the clipping on the wings literally make my right eye twitch. It's the reason why I refuse to use B9 parts. That horrible, horrible clipping.

Talking of clipping, why are the cargo bay doors so razor thin that any wings I attach to the sides clip straight through? I assumed that would have been fixed with stock integration. I'm a blender novice and can fix that in 10min. Again, another reason I don't use B9(as much as I would like to have cargo bays). Did you guys not even bother building some planes using SP+ parts to identify this problem?

So, spaceplanes are out. Cool. Let's shoot some rockets. Woops, launch pad blows up. lulzwot!? Because physics so horribly borks rockets in clamps on load I have designed all my rockets without clamps. So, now the option is to have bits randomly fall off your rocket as it does the jiggly wiggly in launch clamps, or, the entire launch pad blows up. Nice.

I've got 70MB of craft files and about 5MB or so which are usable. Yeah, I might be taking a bit of a break from playing KSP(I'll probably do some modding instead), come back at v1.0, rip out each and every stock part and build a full custom install with usable, quality parts.

[Sky_walker]

O-Doc - the fact that "old designs" will be broken over patches was bound to happen and will keep on happening till 1.0. If I was informed well - this was known for ages and devs said numerous times that they'll change spaceplane parts at some point leading to the problems with it. If there's anyone to blame - it's you for wasting so much time on something that you knew will be broken sooner or later.

As for the rest of your post - 100% agreed. A lot of very good points. IMHO you should post a separate topic with that cause it definitely deserves devs attention (and I have no idea how the heck did it pass through the experimentals without being fixed)

[MKI]

I really hate to say this. I've had a QQ moment half an hour into 0.25. Sorry Squad, the quality control is non-existent on this one. You guys are paying too much attention to the hype-train threads. I was really looking forward to this update too.

I knew I was going to have to do some work to rebuild my spaceplanes but the new wings make planes look like patchwork quilts. So, all of my planes have to be rebuilt and most of them are going to look silly. Unless you're into that quilty goodness. That's not to mention the clipping on the wings literally make my right eye twitch. It's the reason why I refuse to use B9 parts. That horrible, horrible clipping.

Talking of clipping, why are the cargo bay doors so razor thin that any wings I attach to the sides clip straight through? I assumed that would have been fixed with stock integration. I'm a blender novice and can fix that in 10min. Again, another reason I don't use B9(as much as I would like to have cargo bays). Did you guys not even bother building some planes using SP+ parts to identify this problem?

So, spaceplanes are out. Cool. Let's shoot some rockets. Woops, launch pad blows up. lulzwot!? Because physics so horribly borks rockets in clamps on load I have designed all my rockets without clamps. So, now the option is to have bits randomly fall off your rocket as it does the jiggly wiggly in launch clamps, or, the entire launch pad blows up. Nice.

I've got 70MB of craft files and about 5MB or so which are usable. Yeah, I might be taking a bit of a break from playing KSP(I'll probably do some modding instead), come back at v1.0, rip out each and every stock part and build a full custom install with usable, quality parts.

aining about stuff clipping through a hollow object right? I don't really see a good reason to complain that the cargo bays give us as much room as possible. Hell anything attached inside it can't be seen unless you open the bay anyways.

Seems like you should have clamps now.... How is that squads fault?

[Linear]

Have to agree with other posts. The selection process for QA/Testing wasn't good enough, or the dev's rushed release knowing the plethora of bugs.

[O-Doc]

O-Doc - the fact that "old designs" will be broken over patches was bound to happen and will keep on happening till 1.0. If I was informed well - this was known for ages and devs said numerous times that they'll change spaceplane parts at some point leading to the problems with it. If there's anyone to blame - it's you for wasting so much time on something that you knew will be broken sooner or later.

As for the rest of your post - 100% agreed. A lot of very good points. IMHO you should post a separate topic with that cause it definitely deserves devs attention (and I have no idea how the heck did it pass through the experimentals without being fixed)

Like I said, I'm quite happy to build new planes. I was really looking forward to using the new geometries to come up with some new shapes. But the quilt effect...

Seriously squad, get rid of the black in the SP+ wings. Hot fix that right out of there. That's also going to go a long way to solving that clip-flickering that makes my eye twitch.

[Wanderfound]

In the end I had 27,000 science left over. So I could have done it for less than 50% outsourced. Not sure how to fix the problem other then chop off most of the benefits and jack the price.

So now that you've got the tree revealed, care to share with us exactly where in the tech tree the new parts are found?

[Sky_walker]

Seriously squad, get rid of the black in the SP+ wings. Hot fix that right out of there. That's also going to go a long way to solving that clip-flickering that makes my eye twitch.

Better yet: make it toggable.

[Jetski]

Sooo...I recovered a ship on the launchpad (forgot to load crew). Now the launchpad is destroyed. ???. Playing hard mode, but this seems excessive - are there random breakages like with the Dangit mod?

[Sky_walker]

Sooo...I recovered a ship on the launchpad (forgot to load crew). Now the launchpad is destroyed. ???. Playing hard mode, but this seems excessive - are there random breakages like with the Dangit mod?

There's a bug that's causing landing pad to be randomly destroyed.

Read this topic: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/95811-Heavy-planes-break-the-runway-in-0-25

[technicalfool]

What do you mean "defeat"?! There never was one in a first place. You always could max out the tech tree on Kerbin alone, not even visiting the Mun or Minimus.

Ahem.

[Citation Needed]

No really, I want to see a video where someone maxes out the tech tree without leaving LKO, and without twiddling in the admin building either, since this has apparently "always" been the case. I'll thoroughly applaud the devious mad skills of anybody who manages it.

[tobjv]

There's a bug that's causing landing pad to be randomly destroyed.

Read this topic: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/95811-Heavy-planes-break-the-runway-in-0-25

It isn't really a bug... The runway and launch pad have a max weight limit. If you exceed it it blows up. For the launch pad if you use launch stabilizers you can mitigate the chance of explosion.

[Sky_walker]

It isn't really a bug... The runway and launch pad have a max weight limit. If you exceed it it blows up. For the launch pad if you use launch stabilizers you can mitigate the chance of explosion.

By all means it looks like a bug.

It could be an intended feature with upgradeable buildings, but we don't have them.

Ahem.

[Citation Needed]

No really, I want to see a video where someone maxes out the tech tree without leaving LKO, and without twiddling in the admin building either, since this has apparently "always" been the case. I'll thoroughly applaud the devious mad skills of anybody who manages it.

My source is maths.

You can farm test part contracts till maxing out the tech tree. From mathematical point of view it is possible to max out the tech tree with only sub-orbital flights.

No video though cause it takes way too long... though actually now that we have administration building - apparently you can max out the tech tree in a single test part contract (though it'll take few more to have it available - but no trip to any of the moons at any point).

Edited October 8, 2014 by Sky_walker

[MKI]

By all means it looks like a bug.

New feature: there is a weight limit exeeding it makes you lose your game cuse you screwed up.

Calling it a bug is a cheap way to say you screwed up in your hard mode game by building to big of a ship and not using launch clamps.

Id give it a few days, once we find out the launch pad can explode if you jump up and down with a kerbal THEN ill say its a bug. Until then i blame people not understanding how the weight limit works.

[O-Doc]

I'm pretty sure Squad have not intentionally limited our ability to build ridiculously large rockets. I would say it's more a design oversight than a bug. Why are Danny and Wackjob not on the experimentals team?

[lajoswinkler]

Wait, my KSC doesn't look like that, and there are no trees, despite the fact I'm using high settings.

If I was running squad we'd have proper reentry heating, and aerodynamics by now. And a sfx overhaul with: no sound passed the shock cone of your craft, no sound in space except through IVA, RCS sfx when firing (in IVA only), chatterer in stock, awesome launch rocket sounds that sound exactly like real rockets do and sound different in close vs from afar.

I do agree with you, but be patient.

Like I said, I'm quite happy to build new planes. I was really looking forward to using the new geometries to come up with some new shapes. But the quilt effect...

Seriously squad, get rid of the black in the SP+ wings. Hot fix that right out of there. That's also going to go a long way to solving that clip-flickering that makes my eye twitch.

Why is the black paint so problematic? It looks elegant.

[technicalfool]

Like I said, I'm quite happy to build new planes. I was really looking forward to using the new geometries to come up with some new shapes. But the quilt effect...

Seriously squad, get rid of the black in the SP+ wings. Hot fix that right out of there. That's also going to go a long way to solving that clip-flickering that makes my eye twitch.

Black edges like these you mean?

As for clip-flickering, I'm not quite sure what you mean. That may be a graphics driver issue to do with depth buffering. If after updating everything you still have a flicker problem, you could do a lot worse than making a post in the support forums. Either modded or unmodded depending on how you like to play. A video of said flickering might be nice if you have that facility, too.

[Sky_walker]

Why is the black paint so problematic? It looks elegant.

It flickers when you clip the parts.

As for clip-flickering, I'm not quite sure what you mean. That may be a graphics driver issue

It's not a graphic driver issue. KSP got problems with flickering ever since, no amount of driver updates can fix it. It's either Unity issue or KSP-specific issue.

New feature: there is a weight limit exeeding it makes you lose your game cuse you screwed up.

Calling it a bug is a cheap way to say you screwed up in your hard mode game by building to big of a ship and not using launch clamps.

*facepalm*

You launch all your spaceplanes off the launch clamps?

And I'm the one doing stuff wrong?

Seriously?

[O-Doc]

Black edges like these you mean?

http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/sts-86/images/medium/KSC-97EC-1221.jpg

As for clip-flickering, I'm not quite sure what you mean. That may be a graphics driver issue to do with depth buffering. If after updating everything you still have a flicker problem, you could do a lot worse than making a post in the support forums. Either modded or unmodded depending on how you like to play. A video of said flickering might be nice if you have that facility, too.

Please don't roll out the space shuttle on this one because then we are going to have to bring up heat tiles. You see where this is going?

As for the flickering, I assume everyone has that because every youtuber using B9 has that. You can see it plain as day in every video with B9 wings.

[Red Iron Crown]

I've found the new wing parts look best when the black edges are overlapped on adjacent parts, makes the wings look more like a single piece rather than a patchwork quilt. They are fiddly to align well, though. Haven't seen the clipping issue being described, though I play with very low graphical settings.

[BagelRabbit]

I found my first bug in 0.25!

When Whack-a-Kerbal is opened in Space Center view (which, yes, you can do), going into one of the buildings causes the menu to not be removable. Interestingly enough, moving it from side to side in the SPH and VAB seem to mess with the upper-right-hand corner buttons. If anyone's got the game open right now and wants to verify this, I would appreciate that very much.

[Sky_walker]

Please don't roll out the space shuttle on this one because then we are going to have to bring up heat tiles. You see where this is going?

I see and I like it!

REENTRY HEAT, MAKE IT HAPPEN!

I found my first bug in 0.25!

When Whack-a-Kerbal is opened in Space Center view (which, yes, you can do), going into one of the buildings causes the menu to not be removable. Interestingly enough, moving it from side to side in the SPH and VAB seem to mess with the upper-right-hand corner buttons. If anyone's got the game open right now and wants to verify this, I would appreciate that very much.

Here is where you should post it: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/forums/76-Support-%28unmodded-installs%29

Or make a proper bug report in the bug reporting system (wherever it is).

[Creature]

*facepalm*

You launch all your spaceplanes off the launch clamps?

And I'm the one doing stuff wrong?

Seriously?

Even then you need to land somewhere. I just played around and at 80 tons with around 13 m/s vertical speed touchdown and it's kaboom-time. I didn't even have any horizontal velocity, that was just an 80 ton VTOL. Sure it was a tad rough landing but it shouldn't make the pavement explode...