Squad why cant we keep the old wing parts?

[Murph]

WOW nearly five and half thousand views in less than a day!

People feel strongly about this. Good!

That's not a valid conclusion to draw from a view counter. It could very easily represent a tiny number of people overly heated up about it and refreshing the thread at an abnormal rate.

My opinion: Squad did the right thing to remove them. The only mistake was not to provide them as a separate mod download, which is something they can easily rectify.

[Franklin]

The old wing parts were awful.

[SofusRud]

The old wing parts were awful.

I agree. I've always felt that they looked bad, and were stylistically incompatible with the newer and newer models and textures for rocket parts. Let us not forget that they were mod parts that were put in back before we had a solar system! As for all that stuff about us making better looking and more creative stuff with them I just don't see it. I've been making loads of planes and spaceplanes for ages and I just don't get that sentiment. That argument gives me the impression something like stockholm syndrome, where people have simply had to acclimatize to the bad situation to survive (though less serious, I'm being hyperbolic), coupled with inexperience with using the new parts. We only ever had to get creative with the parts, and clipping to make them look good because they didn't look good by default.

Change may be scary but it's for the best

[Frozen_Heart]

People seem to be missing the point here.

Yes the new graphics on the wings are nice but some of the smaller pieces have been made much larger. This is a problem for those of us who build micro spaceplanes and the like.

[Majorjim!]

People seem to be missing the point here.

Yes the new graphics on the wings are nice but some of the smaller pieces have been made much larger. This is a problem for those of us who build micro spaceplanes and the like.

THIS.

Dont get me wrong, the new parts are very clean looking and I love that the pods now have lift.

It's a great update.

Its just a shame that some of the replacement parts, ie the small aileron are larger and thicker.

This causes issues for small planes and other complex builds.

[Vagani]

oh noes, my cars are gonna be broken, the ones with wings guess i should update then :/ or release them as .24.2 cars, or is it possible to just keep the old ones by copying the files over?

[slumpie]

oh noes, my cars are gonna be broken, the ones with wings guess i should update then :/ or release them as .24.2 cars, or is it possible to just keep the old ones by copying the files over?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/95792-0-25-Mk-2-Redux-Pack-v-3-01-All-of-your-old-craft-can-still-be-saved!

[Lhathron the Elf]

I'd actually consider it to be a long-sighted decision. There's still a way to go until 1.0 and I'm sure many parts will change between now and then. Leaving in every part iteration since the dawn of time will lead to a bloated selection of parts and much confusion for new players. Feedback on the new parts I'm sure would be taken on board and into consideration, but simply keeping old parts because some people don't like change will hinder progression in my opinion

I agree, and I also think that if Squad was smart, they would have some place where you can download the old part files and put them in your game as an optional thing.

[Vagani]

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/95792-0-25-Mk-2-Redux-Pack-v-3-01-All-of-your-old-craft-can-still-be-saved!

Thanks you

[CaptRobau]

On the one hand you've lost a few small control surfaces. But you've also gained a whole range of intermediate wing parts that should make some previously impossible (stock) designs possible. You win some, you lose some.

Personally I think Squad did the right thing. The C7 parts were just an afterthought, a selection of random plane parts added to a game about rockets. SP+ is far more suited to making spaceplane like spaceplanes, which is a much better expansions of the space game that is KSP. For the few that can't live without the old parts, they're easily available as a legacy mod download. For the majority it means a much better looking and in many ways more versatile set of spaceplane parts.

[VR_Dev]

That might work, it still doesn't fit the problem of their appearance not matching the wings. On that particular plane my end 0.25 result was to remove the ailerons all together and use the active winglets for both roll and pitch. The wings are just fixed now. It still flew better the old way. Regardless, those swept wings are really nice for some designs, especially if your going for an airplane look (as opposed to a jet look) but now they have less capability. One modification of this design I had was to take a KAX prop and put in on the front, made it look like a crop duster, but now I can't fly it.

Thanks you

Let me know if you need help editing the craft files to get your cars working again

[JMBuilder]

More parts, more fun. I say keep the old parts along with the new parts. I even dare say bring the original rocket parts back updated with fuel and oxidizer and smoother textures as cheaper alternatives to the better and newer parts.

[CG_Kerbin]

I hope they could just keep the old parts it mess up most of my builds and stuff and also I liked the old parts

[VR_Dev]

So how are we feeling about this after a little bit of time? I've come to terms with the new wings/mrk II parts, but I am still really unhappy with the flaps. Small crafts are still pretty much impossible.

Every time I finish a craft I think it looks perfect, then I have to attach the giant flaps somewhere and it ruins the whole look. Also they are just so much less effective. Has anyone build a medium to small jet that can sustain high G turns in .25?

If so I'd love to see it

[Majorjim!]

So how are we feeling about this after a little bit of time? I've come to terms with the new wings/mrk II parts, but I am still really unhappy with the flaps. Small crafts are still pretty much impossible.

Every time I finish a craft I think it looks perfect, then I have to attach the giant flaps somewhere and it ruins the whole look. Also they are just so much less effective. Has anyone build a medium to small jet that can sustain high G turns in .25?

If so I'd love to see it

Hey, great question.

Personally, I still miss the small white surface but I'm happy with the new wings.

They are good for fairings and there are a lot of shapes which is great.

Happy Kerbanought here.

[Wanderfound]

So how are we feeling about this after a little bit of time? I've come to terms with the new wings/mrk II parts, but I am still really unhappy with the flaps. Small crafts are still pretty much impossible.

Every time I finish a craft I think it looks perfect, then I have to attach the giant flaps somewhere and it ruins the whole look. Also they are just so much less effective. Has anyone build a medium to small jet that can sustain high G turns in .25?

If so I'd love to see it

Works for me:

[andrew123]

So how are we feeling about this after a little bit of time? I've come to terms with the new wings/mrk II parts, but I am still really unhappy with the flaps. Small crafts are still pretty much impossible.

Every time I finish a craft I think it looks perfect, then I have to attach the giant flaps somewhere and it ruins the whole look. Also they are just so much less effective. Has anyone build a medium to small jet that can sustain high G turns in .25?

If so I'd love to see it

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[Frozen_Heart]

Still miss the small control surfaces. I haven't really touched planes since the update as many of mine were tiny and no longer work.

[VR_Dev]

Hey, great question.

Personally, I still miss the small white surface but I'm happy with the new wings.

They are good for fairings and there are a lot of shapes which is great.

Happy Kerbanought here.

Guess I'm just an outlier. But I wish all the wings just had built in flaps. It's so much better looking, and you can turn the flaps off if you want anyway.

http://imgur.com/a/7AZ9O

http://imgur.com/a/lLWBT

Yeah I saw that, that thing is awesome. My ships are usually slightly smaller though.

Still miss the small control surfaces. I haven't really touched planes since the update as many of mine were tiny and no longer work.

I've tried, but I feel like even when I find a place to fit flaps they don't perform well at all. The old small flaps had a lift rating of .4, some of the new bigger ones have ratings of like .5.

So you get less lift from more area...

[Ted]

Regarding the old parts being released as a legacy pack by us. That is something we've discussed internally and do want to come back to the idea at a later date. However, as the Great Spaceplane Part Overhaul is still ongoing with the help of Porkjet we'd much prefer to gather them all up and put them up for download when it's completed, if that's something we do decide to do. I do agree it's a great idea though and thankfully some folks have stepped in a provided them for download in the meantime.

[JimmyAgent007]

I dont really work with planes all that much. I can see both sides of the debate, duplicate parts can get in the way for some while others like the freedom to choose the older parts because they like the look better. Some have even talked about how we should improve the new wings other than just say we dont like them.

So with that thinking, why not have the new thicker wings hold fuel? Not sure if someone suggested it already, didnt see it. Then have the old wings not hold fuel, since they are too thin. So we still have the choice, but they are functionally different so that its no longer a case of duplicate parts. If you dont want fuel in the newer wings you can empty them. That would be my simple solution.

Ted of course is right in saying that the Great Spaceplane Part Overhaul is still ongoing so things might change and make (mostly) everyone happy.

[VR_Dev]

Regarding the old parts being released as a legacy pack by us. That is something we've discussed internally and do want to come back to the idea at a later date. However, as the Great Spaceplane Part Overhaul is still ongoing with the help of Porkjet we'd much prefer to gather them all up and put them up for download when it's completed, if that's something we do decide to do. I do agree it's a great idea though and thankfully some folks have stepped in a provided them for download in the meantime.

Hey thanks for the response. It's awesome to know you guys are listening. Like I said earlier, I'm ok with all the new parts, I just feel like the flaps have taken a real step backwards.

So with that thinking, why not have the new thicker wings hold fuel?

Also 1000x this. Fueled wings are about as realistic as you can get, and now with tweakables you can just empty them anyway. My favorite thing about this is that it helps keep the COM centered as the fuel drains. Now we are sticking fuel tanks all over the place, and crafts COM moves all around town as fuel burns.

Edited December 2, 2014 by clown_baby

[JMBuilder]

I still want the old parts back!

[VR_Dev]

I still want the old parts back!

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/95792-0-25-Mk-2-Redux-Pack-v-3-01-All-of-your-old-craft-can-still-be-saved%21

I know you're talking about the parts being stock again JM, but just in case you didn't know, this is a mod I helped out on that has all the old parts. They have been renamed so they don't replace the new ones.

[JMBuilder]

I just like to keep things stock. Mods take up a lot of memory.