SSTO orbits now very easy?

[Jas1126]

I'm a little confused.. Months ago when I played this regularly I generally had to test, test and re-test SSTO's. Please do not confuse this with bragging. I threw this together with little thought (just having some fun) and it made orbit with almost no effort. What gives?

[LexDavis]

Yes, but with the addition of cargo bays that SSTO is useless. Try making some with a good use that can make it to a decent orbit (500,000m) and it will be a little more difficult.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, FAR.

[Vaporo]

Sounds to me like you're either lucky or just more experienced.

[DocMoriarty]

Getting it back on the runway in one piece can even be harder.

[Tex_NL]

Getting it back on the runway in one piece can even be harder.

Especially since his plane has no control surfaces whatsoever.

[Madrias]

Given the number of intakes, I'm not surprised you made it to orbit. Wing surface to fuselage ratio makes your vehicle a high-lift device, reduces the amount of fuel burn to go upward really fast. RAPIER engines make SSTO easier by automatically switching from High-Efficiency Jet Engine to Medium Efficiency Rocket.

All told, it's a solid SSTO design, although useful only for crew transfers in its current form. A cargo bay would make it more useful, although one would have to design smartly to fit a satellite in there.

I'm far from an expert, but I've built my share of spaceplanes. What worries me the most is the fact that you're relying entirely on command pod torque and engine vectored thrust to steer your plane. It's always wise to have an alternate method for when you run out of fuel and electric charge.

[nine_iron]

Experience made SSTOs less challenging.

Gave up making planes a few times before eventually getting some to fly well, then made it into space and eventually orbit.

After learning the basics, getting a few up there it became much easier (relatively) and I wondered why I gave up so many times!

The new surfaces do help and I can whip up a plane pretty quick that can make orbit. To make it useful however (other than crew transfer) takes a bit more time!

[Frozen_Heart]

Make one without intake spam with cargo bays that can reach at least 500k orbit.

And can dock to a station.

[Jas1126]

This is FAR from something I'd use on a mission. Like I said, this was solely made out of boredom. It made orbit on its maiden flight. <-- That is what's throwing me for a loop. I have never had that happen. It made me think that significant changes were made.

[NFUN]

This is FAR from something I'd use on a mission. Like I said, this was solely made out of boredom. It made orbit on its maiden flight. <-- That is what's throwing me for a loop. I have never had that happen. It made me think that significant changes were made.

Are you unconsciously telling us what changes were made...?

[magnemoe]

Make one without intake spam with cargo bays that can reach at least 500k orbit.

And can dock to a station.

I think he has far to much fuel,

VTOL SSTO who reach orbit with plenty of fuel left.

[cantab]

LOL.

Anyway, I'm guessing luck and/or experience. You just happened to hit a working design on your first try.

Incidentally, SSTO's long been easy, technically. But some people insist on adding oversized fins to good rockets

[SkyRender]

Well done on your first SSTO! Now go for something tiny:

Or something huge:

The sky is quite clearly not the limit since all of these craft are meant to get to space instead!

[OgreMagi]

are they easy ? no but as previously said experience with ssto's is valuable. Once you get beyond the initial learning curve it is much easier.

In point the recient change in the KPS, the change in parts made several of my ssto's unusable however this was a simple fix, adjusting the COM/COL, even the new parts ( the new cockpits are harder to place cannards on) but in a hour I was able to make a good 9 ton ssto.

But they are easier to make if you have the experience, the shock cone intakes are much easier to make higher orbit, My latest ssto only uses 4 intakes 2 ram and 2 shock to make a 100km orbit.

and I don't use rapiers they are rather inefficient when compaired with turbo jets and LVN combo, while a bit more difficult to construct they give a great range of performance.

Edited October 19, 2014 by OgreMagi

[Jas1126]

Put this together in under 7 minutes. Something has definitely changed. Not in my wildest dreams would I be able to do two maiden flights to orbit in a row a few months ago.

[MartGonzo]

So.. I'm curious, have there been any mention of aerodynamic changes from the devs?

can anyone confirm their old craft handle differently?

I can't really offer an opinion as I've been using NEAR since I started on .25 a few days ago.

[UmbralRaptor]

Aerobic SSTOs are easier now. The new Mk2 fuselages provide lift, flameouts have been tweaked to be less of an issue, and you now get roll control out of the RAPIER's TVC. (And of course, if you go far enough back, you are dealing with turbojets rather than RAPIERs, which are less forgiving...)

[SkyRender]

The Mk.2 parts all having lift does have a huge impact, but the biggest factor is definitely that RAPIER engines are better turbojets than the actual turbojets now. They are a proper tier above jet engines, and any spaceplane using them is going to have a much easier time than one using a mixture of traditional jet engines and rocket engines. Personally I'm fine with that, as that's pretty much what they're hoping the SABRE engine will do in real life as well.

[MartGonzo]

Interesting..I'm certain;y glad the mk2 are proper lifting bodies but this trend towards difficulty nerfing is getting a bit much

[Jas1126]

I see. I hope there will be more tweaks. This is ridiculously too easy, no offense. I feel as though I could throw anything together and as long as CoM and CoL are aligned properly, I can make orbit.

[BDelacroix]

I am not an idiot by any means but I do not have an easy time with SSTOs. In fact, I have gotten exactly one barely to orbit and circularized but only at 90km altitude. Might have had enough to come back down but it ran out of power and so the wheels were useless for getting it to point anywhere.

Once I added more power generation, it was too heavy and didn't get it to orbit anymore.

I do not want to have to "cheat" by stacking parts in the same space as you once had to do. I came fairly close with adding the new conformal air intakes so that my jet engines would take me to ~35k and then use the rockets. Close was the same as not doing it, but it was closer.

I am sure there is something fundamental I am missing out on.

[BDelacroix]

The Mk.2 parts all having lift does have a huge impact, but the biggest factor is definitely that RAPIER engines are better turbojets than the actual turbojets now. They are a proper tier above jet engines, and any spaceplane using them is going to have a much easier time than one using a mixture of traditional jet engines and rocket engines. Personally I'm fine with that, as that's pretty much what they're hoping the SABRE engine will do in real life as well.

Really? I was under the impression from before this last patch and with experiments that the sabre wasn't that great. It ate LFO like a kid sucks down candy once I was out of the atmosphere.

[KerikBalm]

Rapiers have the same ISP and thrust, up to 1000 m/s... turbojets top out at 2,400, while rapiers top out at 2,200

Turbojet thrust vectoring gives 2 axis control

Rapier thrust vectoring gives 3 axis control

Twin turbojets give 3 axis control, so that rapier advantage really only applies for very small craft

I'm still puttering around with my game in .24 (using the pre-stock SPP parts, and NEAR), but I heard the new SPP parts, in addition to being lifting bodies, also have lower drag coefficients, no?

[GoSlash27]

I just knocked this little buggy together today without much fuss. Just enough to transfer 6 kerbals to a space station and back, nothing more.

Best,

-Slashy

[worir4]

Wow nice plane. It doesn't look like it has much power. What's the TWR on full tanks on the rocket engine ?