[1.12.x] Community Tech Tree (August 13)

[HadToBeMordin]

As promised, here is the revised version of the CTT 2.1 gliffy with all Stock parts plus (color-coded) those from the supported mods, which to my knowledge currently are:

• Near Future Technologies (Construction, Props, Solar, Spacecraft Parts)
  [*=left]Stockalike Station Parts Expansion
  [*=left]Cryogenic Engines
  [*=left]KSP Interstellar Extended
  [*=left]USI Colonization Systems (OKS/MKS)
  [*=left]USI Exploration Pack
  [*=left]USI Life Support
  [*=left]USI Survival Pack
  
• USI Freight Transport Technologies (CTT config file in v0.4.1 manually fixed)
  

If you find the graphical representation useful, feel free to use it in the OP of the thread, as previously stated.

Apologies if I missed/misspelled/mixed up any part/mod. If so, please let me know and I'll correct the drawing.

Here are the links:

Gliffy - http://www.gliffy.com/go/publish/8194575

PNG - http://www.gliffy.com/go/publish/image/8194575/L.png

[ev0]

As promised, here is the revised version of the CTT 2.1 gliffy with all Stock parts plus (color-coded) those from the supported mods, which to my knowledge currently are:

• Near Future Technologies (Construction, Props, Solar, Spacecraft Parts)
  [*=left]Stockalike Station Parts Expansion
  [*=left]Cryogenic Engines
  [*=left]KSP Interstellar Extended
  [*=left]USI Colonization Systems (OKS/MKS)
  [*=left]USI Exploration Pack
  [*=left]USI Life Support
  [*=left]USI Survival Pack
  
• USI Freight Transport Technologies (CTT config file in v0.4.1 manually fixed)
  

If you find the graphical representation useful, feel free to use it in the OP of the thread, as previously stated.

Apologies if I missed/misspelled/mixed up any part/mod. If so, please let me know and I'll correct the drawing.

Here are the links:

Gliffy - http://www.gliffy.com/go/publish/8194575

PNG - http://www.gliffy.com/go/publish/image/8194575/L.png

I think you missed one command pod. I'm seeing that it goes up to Tier 7, but you only have them up to Tier 6?

[HadToBeMordin]

I think you missed one command pod. I'm seeing that it goes up to Tier 7, but you only have them up to Tier 6?

I think the problem is the Tier numbering. The gliffy starts with Tier 0 (as in Nertea's original design), you probably assume "Start" to be in Tier 1? As far as I can tell, everything is there. Heavy Command Modules is the last one in my KSP Tech Tree with CTT installed and also the last one in the graphic.

[ev0]

I think the problem is the Tier numbering. The gliffy starts with Tier 0 (as in Nertea's original design), you probably assume "Start" to be in Tier 1? As far as I can tell, everything is there. Heavy Command Modules is the last one in my KSP Tech Tree with CTT installed and also the last one in the graphic.

Ah, you're right. I got mixed up since "Enhanced Survivability" has a command pod icon instead of something else. The name mismatch threw me off.

[callmewoof]

I know that Karbonite isn't a fully supported mod for CTT, but it's from the same person(s) that make MKS/USI, which does seem to be part of the patches for CTT. Now, Karbonite and Karbonite Plus both have CTT integration, so they still work. Howevery, my issue is this: I can unlock Three Karbonite Engines for 90p (Heavy Rocketry). I can unlock a basic Karbonite scanner and a bunch of holding tanks AND two Karbonite-using generators for 90p (Fuel Systems). And lastly, I can unlock 3 more Karbonite engines (the electric-fusions) AND a better Karbonite scanner AND more tanks for 550p. Now here's where things get wacky.

In order to unlock the very first drill that can collect Karbonite resources, I need advanced science. However, advanced science costs 550p research. So that means I need to upgrade the R&D twice, go down two trees, one of which is a science tree and the other which is command modules (45p Early > 90p Basic > 160p Command Modules > 300p Field Science which is one of two techs required to unlock advanced science), all in order to use things (and I mean a LOT of them! Like, 30 parts worth or more) that I unlocked allllll the way back at 90p tech level one without an upgraded R&D.

I posted this in the Karbonite thread, but it seems that people in this thread seem to kind of merge these things(?). I'm not trying to complain, and maybe the Karbonite creator will change things. But I was wondering if anyone here maybe had an idea of how to balance things? In case he/she doesn't, or something like that. I hope this makes sense. Sorry if I'm asking for incorrect things. If not, my apologies. :-)

[HadToBeMordin]

I have been familiarizing with the CTT a lot and have been working on an (attempted) CTT balancing config for the past week or so. Not trying to move too much stuff around from where the individual mods' creators slotted their parts into the tree, but adressing issues like the one you brought up with stock and mod parts (Karbonite isn't on my list as of yet, but thanks for bringing it up, I'll add the parts to the graph as well). If there is interest, I'll create a thread to share my attempts once I'm reasonably confident I have everything worked out the way I like.

However, one thing I've noticed during the process is that it's actually much easier than you'd expect to tweak the tech tree for yourself, if you so desire. All you need is the code outlined by Nertea in the OP and the part name you'd like to reassign, and Module Manager will do the rest for you.

[RoverDude]

I know that Karbonite isn't a fully supported mod for CTT, but it's from the same person(s) that make MKS/USI, which does seem to be part of the patches for CTT. Now, Karbonite and Karbonite Plus both have CTT integration, so they still work. Howevery, my issue is this: I can unlock Three Karbonite Engines for 90p (Heavy Rocketry). I can unlock a basic Karbonite scanner and a bunch of holding tanks AND two Karbonite-using generators for 90p (Fuel Systems). And lastly, I can unlock 3 more Karbonite engines (the electric-fusions) AND a better Karbonite scanner AND more tanks for 550p. Now here's where things get wacky.

In order to unlock the very first drill that can collect Karbonite resources, I need advanced science. However, advanced science costs 550p research. So that means I need to upgrade the R&D twice, go down two trees, one of which is a science tree and the other which is command modules (45p Early > 90p Basic > 160p Command Modules > 300p Field Science which is one of two techs required to unlock advanced science), all in order to use things (and I mean a LOT of them! Like, 30 parts worth or more) that I unlocked allllll the way back at 90p tech level one without an upgraded R&D.

I posted this in the Karbonite thread, but it seems that people in this thread seem to kind of merge these things(?). I'm not trying to complain, and maybe the Karbonite creator will change things. But I was wondering if anyone here maybe had an idea of how to balance things? In case he/she doesn't, or something like that. I hope this makes sense. Sorry if I'm asking for incorrect things. If not, my apologies. :-)

Posting the same thing I posted in the Karbonite thread for this.

This is by design, and CTT is fully supported by Karbonite. It follows the same pattern as LFO engines - i.e. you get the engines and the tanks long before ISRU. This is appropriate since with stock, Karbonite is more of an alternate fuel mod these days, and it would be weird having either the engines unlock that deep in the tech tree, or having the ISRU unlock earlier than stock. The engines are fillable in the VAB.

Probably the one tweak I will make is to default the tanks to being full.

[BlackHat]

CTT looks very interesting, but I am surprised how few part mods are incorporated into it.

I mean taking a look at the all the Part mods listed on "Community Mods and Plugins Library" its shocking that only a few authors have mods included in CTT.

[RoverDude]

We make up for it in sheer volume

[JohnTomato]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but there's something I did not quite understand about CTT. Let's say I have CTT installed and a mod that is NOT supported. Will this mod's parts show up in the tech tree? I read the OP but I'm still not sure.

Thanks!

[Nertea]

They'll just go into the stock nodes. This mod doesn't touch those so everything will be fine.

[JohnTomato]

They'll just go into the stock nodes. This mod doesn't touch those so everything will be fine.

Alrighty, then. Thanks for the quick reply, and great mod(s) btw!

[BlackHat]

We make up for it in sheer volume

Thats for sure!!

[Atmoz]

Hello world !

(Sorry for my bad english...)

Someone could explain me why some nodes are empty in community tech tree ?

For example, Simple command Modul, Heat Management System or Storage Technology are empty...

Thx

[Whovian]

Hello world !

(Sorry for my bad english...)

Someone could explain me why some nodes are empty in community tech tree ?

For example, Simple command Modul, Heat Management System or Storage Technology are empty...

Thx

I'm guessing it's because of the fact that you don't have the relevant mods. CTT supports (though does not require) a great many mods, and if the mods aren't installed, there's nothing to go into some of the nodes.

[Amedee]

I'm guessing it's because of the fact that you don't have the relevant mods. CTT supports (though does not require) a great many mods, and if the mods aren't installed, there's nothing to go into some of the nodes.

Same question here, with a plot twist: how do I find the mods that add parts to the now empty nodes in the tech tree? Except for hunting down every mod in existence?

[FreeThinker]

Same question here, with a plot twist: how do I find the mods that add parts to the now empty nodes in the tech tree? Except for hunting down every mod in existence?

Read the list of Mods which support CTT on the OP

[Gkirmathal]

Finally some spare time to look for a good tt mod. But tbh I don't get it how the current tech tree and item distribution works cause of the issues I got.

As MOTT is not actively developed, I started to use this and I ran into an odd issue with duplicate items in various tech nodes.

Simplest example:

I have a 2.5m NTR. The item itself has the correct TechRequired = improvedNuclearPropulsion, but for some reason it is also shows up in the nuclearPropulsion node.

Nowhere in part.cfg or the modded techtree node, I can not find a reference to 'nuclearPropulsion'. So why does it also show up there?

This is just one part, I have several parts that show up/duplicated in a few nodes.

What am I missing?

[FreeThinker]

Possibly it is intentionaly, for KSPI I add parts to the tech tree for part upgrades which will not be availalbe as seperate parts in the VAB

[Streetwind]

Same question here, with a plot twist: how do I find the mods that add parts to the now empty nodes in the tech tree? Except for hunting down every mod in existence?

Read the list of Mods which support CTT on the OP

Freethinker, that list isn't being maintained...

I've made a list myself recently, though I'm sure that I missed some mods, because most mod makers who add support don't post here, they only mention it in their own threads. So it's almost impossible to get a complete overview.

 
Alcubierre Drive (Standalone)
Atomic Age
Cryogenic Engines
DMagic Orbital Science
HeatControl
Karbonite
Karbonite Plus
KSP Interstellar Extended
Near Future Construction
Near Future Electrical
Near Future Propulsion
Near Future Solar
Near Future Spacecraft Parts
SpaceY Heavy Lifters
Stockalike Station Parts Expansion
USI Kolonization System
USI Exploration Pack
USI Freight Transport Technologies
USI Life Support
USI Survivability Pack

[undercoveryankee]

Finally some spare time to look for a good tt mod. But tbh I don't get it how the current tech tree and item distribution works cause of the issues I got.

As MOTT is not actively developed, I started to use this and I ran into an odd issue with duplicate items in various tech nodes.

Simplest example:

I have a 2.5m NTR. The item itself has the correct TechRequired = improvedNuclearPropulsion, but for some reason it is also shows up in the nuclearPropulsion node.

Nowhere in part.cfg or the modded techtree node, I can not find a reference to 'nuclearPropulsion'. So why does it also show up there?

This is just one part, I have several parts that show up/duplicated in a few nodes.

What am I missing?

Another cause of duplicate parts in the tech tree is installing a new tree after you've already unlocked some parts. The way tech progress is stored in your save file, it remembers which node the part was in when you unlocked it. Parts you've unlocked will continue to be visible in the node where they were when you unlocked them, even if you later change their TechRequired to add them to another node.

[Amedee]

Freethinker, that list isn't being maintained...

I've made a list myself recently, though I'm sure that I missed some mods, because most mod makers who add support don't post here, they only mention it in their own threads. So it's almost impossible to get a complete overview.

 
Alcubierre Drive (Standalone)
Atomic Age
Cryogenic Engines
DMagic Orbital Science
HeatControl
Karbonite
Karbonite Plus
KSP Interstellar Extended
Near Future Construction
Near Future Electrical
Near Future Propulsion
Near Future Solar
Near Future Spacecraft Parts
SpaceY Heavy Lifters
Stockalike Station Parts Expansion
USI Kolonization System
USI Exploration Pack
USI Freight Transport Technologies
USI Life Support
USI Survivability Pack

Not only is the list unmaintained, but my question is actually the other way around: given node Foo, which mods add parts to it?

[ev0]

Hi Nertea,

I finally figured out how to make a nice looking tree if there are unused nodes using only Module Manager. In my setup, all CTT nodes would be hidden by default, and the modder sets "hideEmpty = True" only for the CTT tech node he/she wants to use (as I think the modders are currently doing). Then my module manager should take care of the rest by simply changing a node's parentIDs.

It's pretty clunky because of certain MM limitations, and would require a lot of exception changing for parents, but here's a proof of concept for the Life Support Branch (hydroponics, shortTermHabitation and longTermHabitation only). Let me know if you're interested. Or if there's a better way to do the same thing!!

Proof of concept:

Set "hideEmpty = True" or "False" for hydroponics or shortTermHabitation in CommunityTechTree.cfg to test.

// Need to give "name" key to RDNodes, or else module checking and "HAS" won't work right
@TechTree:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]
{
@RDNode,*
{
name = #$id$
}
}


// Extra Parents. Ideally, these would be default and connected to stock nodes
@TechTree:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]
{
@RDNode[hydroponics]
{
Parent
{
parentID = electrics
lineFrom = RIGHT
lineTo = LEFT
}
}


@RDNode[shortTermHabitation]
{
Parent
{
parentID = largeElectrics
lineFrom = RIGHT
lineTo = LEFT
}
}


@RDNode[longTermHabitation]
{
Parent
{
parentID = advSolarTech
lineFrom = RIGHT
lineTo = LEFT
}
}
}

// Code for changing parents from empty nodes
// ====================
// Life Support Branch
// ====================


// has recycling
@TechTree:HAS[@RDNode[recycling]:HAS[#hideEmpty[False]]]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]
{
@RDNode:HAS[#id[hydroponics]]
{
-Parent,2 {}
}

@RDNode:HAS[#id[shortTermHabitation]]
{
@Parent,0
{
@parentID = recycling
}
}

@RDNode:HAS[#id[longTermHabitation]]
{
@Parent,0
{
@parentID = recycling
}
}
}


// has hydroponics
@TechTree:HAS[@RDNode[hydroponics]:HAS[#hideEmpty[False]]]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]
{
@RDNode:HAS[#id[shortTermHabitation]]
{
@Parent,0
{
@parentID = hydroponics
}
-Parent,2 {}
}


@RDNode:HAS[#id[longTermHabitation]]
{
@Parent,0
{
@parentID = hydroponics
}
}
}


// has shortTermHabitation
@TechTree:HAS[@RDNode[shortTermHabitation]:HAS[#hideEmpty[False]]]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]
{
@RDNode:HAS[#id[longTermHabitation]]
{
@Parent,0
{
@parentID = shortTermHabitation
}
-Parent,1 {}
}
}

//CommunityTechTreeParents.cfg

Default CTT: hideEmpty = False for all

hideEmpty = True for hydroponics (adds higher tech level parent to shortTermHabitation to compensate)

hideEmpty = True for shortTermHabitation (adds higher tech level parent to longTermHabitation to compensate)

hideEmpty = True for hydroponics and shortTermHabitation (adds higher tech level parent to longTermHabitation to compensate)

Edited June 13, 2015 by ev0

[TheWhiteBull]

Hey RoverDude,

I'm trying to use the USI Kolonization mod with CTT and for some reason no matter how I alter the code, MKS_FlexOTube keeps getting put in the advConstruction node, which shows up to the left of start. Am I missing something here or is this a bug?

Thanks!

[ev0]

Finally pretty much finished my config file to automatically get rid of all the unused notes. It can handle any combination of hidden and unhidden nodes, but requires the modder to manually unhide only the node they want to use (i.e. set hideEmpty = False). Pics of examples that use the bottom of the tech tree shown below.

This is all because I really don't like having unused nodes:P

Full CTT, nothing hidden

Stockalike Station Parts

Stockalike Station Parts, NF Solar

Nodes shift down too!

Stockalike Station Parts, NF Solar, Heat Management

Shift down some more!

Edited June 16, 2015 by ev0