Biome Hopper Challenge (Open for v0.90!)

[Laie]

There must be a better way to do Eve...

I don't know how this squares with the rules of this challenge, but the only sane way of covering Eve goes like this:

a) drop rover

drive around

c) board rocket

d) leave Eve and the rover behind

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/95642-The-Eve-Rocks-Challenge

As of now, all of these have happened before Eve had biomes, but the principle should be obvious. Some have done it as a single launch; as for myself, I sent rover & rocket in two launches, for the sake of part count. Besides, the rover-lander went to Gilly first. A good rover can make like 20m/s at 4x physicswarp (though this requires some sort of cruise control, don't try it in stock) -- covering four biomes can be a matter of 20-30 minutes. Any more than that is going to become quite tedious.

[sdj64]

I don't know how this squares with the rules of this challenge, but the only sane way of covering Eve goes like this:

a) drop rover

drive around

c) board rocket

d) leave Eve and the rover behind

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/95642-The-Eve-Rocks-Challenge

As of now, all of these have happened before Eve had biomes, but the principle should be obvious. Some have done it as a single launch; as for myself, I sent rover & rocket in two launches, for the sake of part count. Besides, the rover-lander went to Gilly first. A good rover can make like 20m/s at 4x physicswarp (though this requires some sort of cruise control, don't try it in stock) -- covering four biomes can be a matter of 20-30 minutes. Any more than that is going to become quite tedious.

Without mods, you could try to make an ion glider? That could extend your range a bit more to cover more biomes. With mods you have electric propellers and balloons, so it's easy. Not sure about Claw's stance on reaction wheel powered stock propellers, but you could try that too if you think you can make a decent one.

[Voculus]

As it turns out, I still know how to build rockets! This mission was quite remarkable for me, in a number of ways. In over 1600 hours of KSP (yes I have no life), this is the largest rocket I've ever built, the first time I've ever returned from Moho, and the first time I've seen the Mohole in person! Awesome stuff!

I present to you, the Moho Mojo, weighing in at 1,371 tons, and costing $817,280. The central stack used a huge 5m fuel tank, mated with the most powerful KW Rocketry engine there is. Joined to it, were and additional four 3.75m rocket motors. In fact, the upper stage used it's own, slightly less powerful 5m engine to get the ship into orbit!

The idea was to get an enormous mothership in polar orbit of Moho, with six landers attached, so they could each peel off and do their science business on the surface below. There were some drawbacks, however. The landers sucked. They were necessarily tall and thin to facilitate mothership docking, which left them quite prone to falling over on Moho's bumpy terrain. It took some work, and a bit of luck, but I was able to land almost all of them successfully. Every lander was equipped with two Goo Canisters, a Materials Bay, and all the scientific instruments, except the barometer. They utilized a two-stage design for landing, and then getting back into orbit. I was unable to hop across biomes with them, since fuel was at an absolute premium, and they only barely made it back to the mothership.

Looking back, I think I would have used a single craft, since it makes keeping track of things easier, and would reduce the overall weight. As for the mothership, it was powered by six nukes, which were agonizingly slow, and I'll never use them again! I took Claw's advice, and EVA'd my Kerbals back into the awesome Capsuledyne 3.75m command pod (accommodates seven crew) with their experiments, rather than redock all six landers, which was getting tedious.

It turns out that was a wise decision, because the whole mess only made it back to Kerbin with 100 m/s of dV left. Yep, I totally planned that. The docking ports were all destroyed on reentry, as well. That would have cost me all of my science, and six of the seven crew members, after such an epic journey! If I were to redesign the ship, I would have made the command pod the only part of the ship to return, rather than try to parachute the monstrosity down, although that did go rather well.

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I'm definitely returning to Moho, only with a much lighter ship. I want to plumb the depths of the Mohole, and see if I can't grapple onto the sides with KAS winches. It's amazingly deep, and a fun bug/feature I'm glad the devs left in place.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Voculus

[Claw]

I don't know how this squares with the rules of this challenge, but the only sane way of covering Eve goes like this:

a) drop rover

drive around

c) board rocket

d) leave Eve and the rover behind

This squares perfectly with the rules. Only the science needs to return, I specified nothing else in that regard. Rovers, airplanes, rockets, boats, and all that are fair game for transportation.

Not sure about Claw's stance on reaction wheel powered stock propellers, but you could try that too if you think you can make a decent one.

Well, I'm okay with attempting to build "helicopter" type devices. I would ask that entries try to avoid using control surfaces to build stock propellers because then it gets into disputes about "infiniglide" abuse. Rule 2 does prohibit abuse of physics and bugs. I think reaction powered propellers are okay, infiniglide powered blades are not.

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Also, there are some more awesome looking entries here. I will be updating the board later tonight when I can give each a proper look. Keep up the awesome rockets!

Cheers,

~Claw

[sdj64]

As promised a really really long time ago, here is my entry in 6.4 3.2 scale Kerbin System. 0.90 came along and broke RSS, then I decided to start a new career with 3.2 scale since 6.4 was too flat and boring. I first wanted to use this kind of design on the Mun, but a bunch of contracts convinced me to go to Minmus instead. If I had been going strictly for science and if I had known where all the biomes were, I could have gotten all of them. As it was I had enough fuel for another hop or two before going home. Having 10 Kerbals was an last minute addition prompted by a surface base contract, I would have taken only 4 and avoided the crazy seats! It took me 5 aerobraking passes to get them down safely.

Craft Name: Surveyor Base

Non-Stock

Celestial Body: Minmus

Number of Biomes: 7

Cost: 421412

Science tier: Research Center level 2 (needs VAB level 2 and launchpad level 3 to launch)

Mods used were:

Kerbal Engineer

RSS and Jumbo32 (3.2x scale Kerbin System)

Stock Drag Fix

Deadly Reentry

Oblivion Heatshield Pack (the only non-stock part on this vessel is the 3.75m heatshield)

Some other part packs were installed but weren't on the ship

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[Claw]

Achievement board updated! It's getting late here and I'm tired, so please let me know if I made a mistake or missed anyone / anything.

You guys are putting up some really awesome craft. Keep up the great work!

Cheers,

~Claw

[Laie]

[about rovers on Eve]

This squares perfectly with the rules. Only the science needs to return, I specified nothing else in that regard.

In that case, I'd like to point you towards my Eve Rocks Entry:

http://ksp.schnobs.de/eve2/eve2_short.html

(I don't expect you to accept it as is, but please tell me what's missing.)

As I said, this happened before there were biomes. But the rover is covering about 20km and enters into the water; if there were biomes, it could easily cover five of them. The neighborhood of that landing site now features Explodium Seas, Lowlands, Midlands, Peaks, and Impact Ejecta. The nearest highlands would be about four hours away, and let's not even think about the poles. Even the best landing site I can spot (at like 75° south) would require like two hours in *real time* in order to touch on all biomes.

[still about Eve]Without mods, you could try to make an ion glider? That could extend your range a bit more to cover more biomes.

I doubt it, at least in stock aero. In a dense atmosphere, Ion gliders are either as slow as a rover, or they burn fuel so quickly as to have very limited range. Propellers or dirigibles may work well, but I don't expect much from Ions.

[Foxster]

In that case, I'd like to point you towards my Eve Rocks Entry:

http://ksp.schnobs.de/eve2/eve_76.jpg

http://ksp.schnobs.de/eve2/eve2_short.html

(I don't expect you to accept it as is, but please tell me what's missing.)

As I said, this happened before there were biomes. But the rover is covering about 20km and enters into the water; if there were biomes, it could easily cover five of them. The neighborhood of that landing site now features Explodium Seas, Lowlands, Midlands, Peaks, and Impact Ejecta. The nearest highlands would be about four hours away, and let's not even think about the poles. Even the best landing site I can spot (at like 75° south) would require like two hours in *real time* in order to touch on all biomes.

I doubt it, at least in stock aero. In a dense atmosphere, Ion gliders are either as slow as a rover, or they burn fuel so quickly as to have very limited range. Propellers or dirigibles may work well, but I don't expect much from Ions.

Looking like a rover might be the only stock way. I'll have a look see if I can find somewhere with all or most of the new biomes within a driving range my sanity/patience will endure.

Isn't your mission above from two launches? One with the lander and one with the rover?

[Laie]

Isn't your mission above from two launches? One with the lander and one with the rover?

Yup. The rover is quite a few parts already, the lifter has many more. I tried to keep them seperate until they had to meet.

[Foxster]

Yup. The rover is quite a few parts already, the lifter has many more. I tried to keep them seperate until they had to meet.

Ah, this challenge is using a single launch. So I'll have to make an Eve lifter with a rover strapped to it too. Gotta say I like a challenge though

[Superfluous J]

Ah, this challenge is using a single launch. So I'll have to make an Eve lifter with a rover strapped to it too. Gotta say I like a challenge though

As long as you launch them together, they can LAND anywhere on Eve you want. Just separate them on the way. Land your lifter on top of the mountain and your rover at the sea, and hit all the biomes between as you drive from one to the other.

Or, land your lifter and rover on the mountain, but have your rover attached to a GLIDER so you can soar your way down the mountain. I've always wanted to try that but the though of piloting a rover more than a km or 2 makes me want to cry.

[Claw]

(I don't expect you to accept it as is, but please tell me what's missing.)

The overall mission approach looks perfectly acceptable, with the exception that's been pointed out: The requirement for it to be launched in a single launch.

I know that's a pretty stringent requirement for an aggressive Eve mission such as yours, but I would also say that you might be able to get away with a lighter rover and some other mission considerations. If anyone does make a rover, you might want to consider making it sturdy enough to handle 4x timewarp on Kerbin. That might make it strong enough to handle some time warp on Eve....?

Additionally, in case there is any confusion, there is no requirement for your bits and pieces to land together at your target together. Only that they are launched together.

Also, in regard to stock ion gliders on Eve, there is was a challenge a few months ago to build a stock Eve SSTO which ended up focusing on Ion gliders. It was deemed impossible, but you might be able to get some building tips from that challenge if you choose this route.

Oh yeah, I once did the polar challenge. Took 12 hours of game time to reach Kerbin's North Pole from KSC, not counting all the F5/F9 shenanigans...

Cheers,

~Claw

[Foxster]

I've been messing with a lightweight ion glider on Eve.

I'm guessing its due to Eve's gloopy atmosphere but its slow and fuel hungry. I can't get any decent range, not enough for 5 biomes. Still trying though, got to be better than driving.

[Laie]

If anyone does make a rover, you might want to consider making it sturdy enough to handle 4x timewarp on Kerbin. That might make it strong enough to handle some time warp on Eve....?

High time warp is not a problem in itself, but it makes you more vulnerable to oversteering, SAS-induced or otherwise, especially when coming down after a jump.

Eve's high gravity keeps the flight phase short (if you jump at all); and below 2500-3000m, the terrain is mostly gentle dunes, with very few severe peaks or potholes. Even the mountains are much more gentle than Kerbins'. If your rover can drive well on the grassland outside of KSP proper, you should have no problems at Eve.

@Foxster: I suggest you try the trusty Rockomax 48-7s, together with 400-600 units of FLT tank. That will be faster than a rover, and should have an effective range in the 10-20km area.

[Foxster]

@Foxster: I suggest you try the trusty Rockomax 48-7s, together with 400-600 units of FLT tank. That will be faster than a rover, and should have an effective range in the 10-20km area.

On an 'air'craft?

[Foxster]

I like Eve. Eve likes me. Its pink. I live on Eve. Eve cuddles me and loves me long time. Eh eh. Oh oh. Sob...

I. WILL. NEVER. DRIVE. A. ROVER. AGAIN!

Craft file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/990w8236zy2zpiv/Eve%20new%20lifter%2012%20w%20rover%20and%20lifter.craft?dl=0 (stock)

Piccies from 6 biomes: http://s395.photobucket.com/user/FoxMouldy/slideshow/Eve%20rover

Edited January 8, 2015 by Foxster

[Jasonden]

Here's another Moho entry. Stock, with MechJeb and Scansat parts that don't change performance at all. Hit all 12 biomes. Initial cost was $348,120, but I recovered the first stage for $161383, the second stage for $40306, and the spacecraft for $73461. Net cost then was $72970, most of which went to fuel and the droptanks.

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[Claw]

I. WILL. NEVER. DRIVE. A. ROVER. AGAIN!

Dude, that's a great job!

I also figured this was probably the only real economical way to do Eve. Nice work.

Here's another Moho entry.

Also an awesome entry. Nicely done and pretty cheap! I found your LKO orbital technique very interesting. Not the "most optimal" ascent, but seems very economical. And nice recovery after the first landing.

Cheers,

~Claw

[Voculus]

I got this Biome Quad Kopter to Duna, but the electric engines in Duna's thin atmosphere are so agonizingly slow, I called it quits, after never getting it any faster than about 25 m/s. Duna is going to be a tough nut to crack.

[Claw]

I got this Biome Quad Kopter to Duna...

Sounds like quite the work to get it going, but it's a neat concept. Is it worth putting another engine on the center pod?

Good luck,

~Claw

[Voculus]

Yeah, I'll have to redesign it, or lighten it up a bit. Maybe get rid of those Material Bays. I never actually did any HyperEdit testing. I just flew it there, thinking I could sow my KSP oats where ever I pleased! My landing site was at 3800m ASL, and the TWR had dropped to nearly 1.0 at that altitude. I didn't have enough power to pitch over far enough for speed, and to keep it aloft at the same time.

[Himynameisjake]

This squares perfectly with the rules. Only the science needs to return, I specified nothing else in that regard. Rovers, airplanes, rockets, boats, and all that are fair game for transportation.

Dang, I shouldn't have come back to read this, recently took an indefinite leave of absence from the community and game, but I really did want to finish this mission and my 600t lander was a huge sticking point....you might get me back yet.

[Claw]

...you might get me back yet.

Welcome back Jake.

I look forward to your potential submission! In fact, I ought to redo mine (or start another one) sometime soon. I've been bogging myself down in add-on building atm...

Cheers!

~Claw

[Laie]

I must be mad. But you've written "untested" next to my trusty labrover... I can't let that stand.

[Himynameisjake]

The idea is to design a craft that people can look at or use that doesn’t feel like a grind.

How do you define this? I'm currently estimating the tylo leg of the trip around 6 days of driving from deorbit to ascent, with similar time frames expected for Eve, Mun, and Duna. It's not pretty, but it's about as efficient as I could muster for a grand tour tier ship.

Also have not decided on a final optimal design for the Laythe poles biome, waiting for Squad to figure out Crescent Bay as well.

- - - Updated - - -

http://ksp.schnobs.de/stuff/rundschlag.jpg

http://ksp.schnobs.de/stuff/tylo.jpg

I must be mad. But you've written "untested" next to my trusty labrover... I can't let that stand.

OMG, this is basically an insane version of my design, i'm in love. fantastic. How on earth did you average 43m/s with that rover on tylo?!?!?

Edited January 19, 2015 by Himynameisjake