About night landing on mun and light in space

[RainDreamer]

So my first time getting to the mun, I foolishly just randomly deorbited for landing without checking where I would end up. Turn out I had to land on the darkside of the Mun, and I totally didn't prepare for the pure darkness below, despite the sun is still over the horizon, just setting down. You could guess what happened with a landing without any idea where "land" is. After that I learn to put lights on every spacecraft intending to land anywhere.

However, this makes me wonder, how realistic is that? I understand that, since there is no atmosphere on the Mun, there would be no refraction of light that would give some visibility at sunset. However, how does light work in space then, exactly? Does it mean any side of a space object that is not facing the sun would be in complete darkness? Would there only be two stage between visible and not visible? Are there other kind of effects that may be in play to allow darkside of objects to still be somewhat visible?

Edited November 22, 2014 by RainDreamer

[sal_vager]

In real life ithout an atmosphere or another body to refract/reflect it, pretty much yeah, you'd only have starlight unless the sun is "up".

But KSP does not handle dawn/dusk 100% accurately, light passing through mountains isn't modelled for instance, and to get that darkness the light from the sun is actually turned off or it'd shine through the Mun

Kerbin can still be lit and so can the sun, but that is by actually lighting the body itself.

[magnemoe]

Note that you can land pretty well in IVA, this is pretty dangerous on Mun because of all the craters who is hard to see from orbit and work better on other bodies.

For me IVA landings in the dark has an benefits, I don't get scared of the ground rushing towards me and can keep higher speed.

I know the rocket does 10 m/s braking so going from 200 m/s to standstill in 20 seconds is reasonable.

[hazarada]

I've landed a few times in the dark by observing my altitude and praying that the "sea level" altitude isn't too far off from the terrain altitude, rather fuel inefficient though, always prefer a day landing.

[Carter]

If you're performing manned landings, I don't think it is unrealistic at all to do daytime landings exclusively. That's what I do. I time-warp until my LZ is about one eighth through a day cycle before I begin my descent. This has the benefit of giving you plenty of daylight for activities on the surface, but not being so early that the extreme angle of the incoming light makes finding your shadow difficult while also not adequately illuminating the terrain beneath you.

[Piper]

I've landed a few times at night, but I decided very early on to always include lights on my landers, regardless of my intent. Most notably, my first manned landing on another planet (Moho) was done at night. The reason was because I had landed the science package on a seperate lander, and being Moho, when my orbit finally intersected with the location of the landed science package, it was night time and I wasn't going to wait half a Mohovian day for the next landing window.

As for realism, typically you are correct. If it is an airless body, then the night surface would be virtually pitch black. The only light you would get would be a small amount from the stars above. However there are some important exceptions. Just as we get some illumination at night from the moon, the moon also recieves light reflecting off the Earth during lunar night. It's enough that you can actually make out details on the lunar surface when looking at it through a telescope.

[aleis]

I have done this same thing as well and, it is the reason why I also include a spot light on all landers just in case

[Motokid600]

Shame ksp can't emulate moon light ( planet shine )

[RainDreamer]

Shame ksp can't emulate moon light ( planet shine )

I think there is a mod for that.

Anyway, I just realize another thing: shouldn't this mean our lights would also have a much better range in airless body due to the light not being refracted? Stock KSP light has very horrible range from what I have seen.

[Ikaneko]

Go into IVA.

There's RADAR Altitude in there.

Or, turn on ground scatter: they emit faint light.

[LordFerret]

In real life, ambient light from the stars does illuminate a little - but very little. I'll agree with the others, I put lights on my landers as well, both Mk1 & 2 Illuminators, as landing in the shadows in craters can prove frustrating... if not disastrous.

[Red Iron Crown]

In addition to lighting up you landing area, lights can serve as a "poor man's radar altimeter". Angle them slightly outward and the spots of light will converge as you approach the surface.

[Slam_Jones]

if you aren't against using mods, Kerbal Engineer includes a HUD option that shows your altitude above terrain, among many other things. Using it, I've managed a fair number of successful night landings.

[razark]

In addition to lighting up you landing area, lights can serve as a "poor man's radar altimeter". Angle them slightly outward and the spots of light will converge as you approach the surface.

I used to include two spotlights on my landers for a Dambusters style altimeter, until I started using the Kerbal Engineer mod that gives you actual altitude to surface. Now I include two spotlights on my landers because it's just cool to watch the spots converge.

[sal_vager]

This may not be a useful method for everyone but I drop my Munar transfer/descent stage when I'm a few hundred meters above where I think the ground is, it usually runs out about that point

The explosion gives me an idea of how low I am!

[AcidSludge]

This may not be a useful method for everyone but I drop my Munar transfer/descent stage when I'm a few hundred meters above where I think the ground is, it usually runs out about that point

The explosion gives me an idea of how low I am!

This is probably the most Kerbal way to wrestle that problem. Salute to you, sir. I will try that for myself later xD

[Wanderfound]

Landing in the dark, with mods: use Scansat to pick a flat spot of known altitude.

Landing in the dark, without mods: check your radar altimeter frequently and touch down lightly enough that you can immediately lift off again if you find yourself on an excessive slope. Use the map view to ensure that your trajectory isn't clipping a mountain.

[katateochi]

This may not be a useful method for everyone but I drop my Munar transfer/descent stage when I'm a few hundred meters above where I think the ground is, it usually runs out about that point

The explosion gives me an idea of how low I am!

I used do to something similar for missions where I planed to land in the dark. I used a set of little mines, basically a probe core, battery and some lights attached on radial decouplers. They made pretty good range finders.

[r4pt0r]

i sometimes had a stack of decouplers mounted somewhere on the ship aiming down for that purpose. just fire em' straight down and see how far before the boom.

[Frank_G]

I usually go in at a very shallow landing angle, which doesnt allow for the decoupler method. So, it is IVA landing with a close look on radar altimeter and vertical speed for me. And putting lights on a lander never hurt. I also like to use ScanSat, so i can determine, where i land and what terrain to expect.