Parts clipping - is it immoral?

[cicatrix]

Greetings, personally I never use parts clipping in design because I consider it somehow 'cheaty'. Yet, I've been recently told that parts clipping is absolutely normal and there's nothing wrong in using this option.

So, what I want to ask is probably been asked already. The question is in the poll.

(Do you consider using the parts clipping a cheat or no?)

UPD: I should probably have put 'immoral' in quotes. Of course I'm not seriously looking into morality of using a computer game option.

Edited November 27, 2014 by cicatrix
Clarificaton

[cantab]

In a single-player game "cheating" is not immoral. This thread's premise is invalid.

[RainDreamer]

Personally, I don't find it to be cheating. in real world, you can custom order a part to your specification. In this game, what you are given is what you have to use. So clipping things in order to create something that fit your purpose is nothing wrong in my opinion. However, I normally avoid it for performance and aesthetic reason. Clipping part can show overlaying texture, or act strangely under stress, or you can leave something in and forgot about it then wonders why the hell no matter what you do, the space plane you are building is never perfectly balanced.

But once in a while, I do sneak in a box of life support between parts, just so it doesn't show outside and look weird. Or just sandwich a kerbal engineer chip somewhere, cause no one want to see that thing.

To cap off: it is up to the player. If people want to do it, let them. If people don't want to do it, let them too. A game do not have a single way to play it. A creative player will always find a way to use what is given to play in a whole different way, and that is a good thing for the longevity of the game.

Edited November 27, 2014 by RainDreamer

[kriseric]

I think it is cheating when it defies the laws of real-world physics. For example, air hogging intakes: space planes are hard to build in real life because there is a limit to how fast and high a jet can travel.

Similarly, clipping fuel tanks into one another to get twice the fuel in the same physical area -- two objects can't occupy physical space at the same time.

[sal_vager]

Immoral?

No, not at all, there's no morality involved with putting parts inside each other in a space computer game that encourages you to build creativity

Amoral?

Yeah, that's the word that applies here

[Frank_G]

Actually i dont care what others consider cheating or not. As a personal guide line i dont clip tanks, engines, cockpits and other stuff, where this completely doesnt make any sense. However, creating clipped structures with plating, trusses and beams and putting stuff into hollow pieces (the large SAS is ideal as a hull for small equipment f.e.) is totally ok in my opinion. But why dont you just do, what suits your needs?

[Xacktar]

Now, Bobby. I dunt want you doin' none of dat part clippin' no mo.

Part clippin' is da debil.

[King Arthur]

In a single-player game "cheating" is not immoral. This thread's premise is invalid.

This. Quoted for truth.

And besides, practically speaking the only potential bad thing that can happen from clipping parts is the Kraken deciding to have tea with you.

[cicatrix]

In the way it looks like, allowing the clipping is the same as if allowing Lego parts IRL do the same.

Less challenge - just a crutch to help your creativity.

[maltesh]

I usually don't do part-clipping that requires the alt-F12 menu unless I've taken apart a spacecraft and the editor won't let me put it back together the same way, primarily because it's kind of a pain to invoke.

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On the other hand, the part-clipping that the editor allows me to do, I'll use whenever I feel like. It's been a feature of my Cheddar-Class landers since 0.18, and many of my other designs do it.

[Superfluous J]

For others, go for it.

For myself, I'll clip things if it's to overcome shortcomings in the UI and basic construction mechanism of the game. A perfect example is the ship in the most recent devnotes. Sepratrons integrated into the ship is something that you could do if you were working at a real space agency, but we have to stick them on the outside. So, clip them into the craft. Done and done. However, clipping 8 fuel tanks into one space? No. That's breaking the law of conservation of mass.

[BudgetHedgehog]

Can a third option be added to the poll? "No, because the editors sometimes disallow perfectly valid attachments in symmetry and the only to make it work is by part clipping or attaching each one individually". If I can attach individually, I should be able to attach symmetrically yet the editors still sometimes don't let you.

Also, no, it's not a cheat (single player offline sandbox...) and yes, it allows more creativity and aesthetically pleasing designs. I don't clip fuel tanks together though - anything that in my mind would not be realistic, I don't do. Clipping batteries or RTGs inside command pods, sure. Putting a 1-2 adapter inside a cargo bay because there's no Mk2-2m adapter, go for it.

[Thomas988]

I do not use part clipping when playing in a serious save. For me, a lot of the fun of building is working around invalid attachments and improvising. It allows for more creative and critical thinking, as well. However, when I am aimlessly messing around I see no wrong in clipping.

[Starman4308]

I generally don't part clip, but I see where it would be useful for things like making replicas of real-world craft, and dealing with certain annoyances in ways which should be possible but aren't due to limitations of the game.

Airhogging, though, is the moral evil of our day.

[Rainbow-Dashie]

I dont use the debug menu part clipper, that feels to cheaty for me, but clipping i can do normally i will do for looks and asthetics only, I won't clip 5 engines inside each other to improve performance or something. (I will make cool looking engine clusters though)

[Vaporo]

Part clipping is a horrible act that is only practiced by supervillains and maniacs.

In all seriousness, I use purely aesthetic part clipping, but will never use it for structural or (with FAR) aerodynamic purposes.

[GoSlash27]

There are no wrong answers

Like the others here have said, I see nothing wrong with clipping to get parts to fit, but I wouldn't use it to do things like putting multiple tanks or engines in the same space. I also don't "enable" clipping in the debug menu.

Best,

-Slashy

[Cirocco]

I have made a helpful chart to act as a visual aid in my thoughts on these kind of matters:

Are you having fun doing X ? ---------yes----------> X is not a "wrong" way of playing the game

|

|

No

|

|

v

X may be a wrong way of playing the game

[pellinor]

Arbitrary limitations are a vital part of most games. The (highly subjective) question for me is if a certain limitation is

* a vital game mechanic

* a flaw of the implementation (like bugs, missing content)

* or even a workaround to simplify things for the average player

If for example I look at a real car engine, it looks pretty much like the result of heavy part clipping. Everything is crammed where there is room, stuff is built around other stuff and some of the tanks have strange forms in order to use the available space. There is no such thing as a slice of the car dedicated exclusively to the battery. So for me part clipping falls into the third category, and I do lots of clipping, provided that I like the looks of the result.

In the second category I would put things like TWR and deltaV Numbers. It would also be a perfectly valid viewpoint that guessing those is meant as vital part of the difficulty. Or that they would confuse new players too much.

[EuSouONumero345]

I have to admit...I was going for the second option, but couldn't resist the urge to go on the third.

Anyway, some may consider cheating, not me. Cause I mostly use it when the game doesn't allow me to place something that I obviously should. And it also helps you making really interesting things.

Though it is cheating if it abuses flaws in the game mechanincs. Or it should be considered, whatever, as the player is who decides whether something is appropriate or not to use.

Edited November 27, 2014 by EuSouONumero345

[zekes]

Are you kidding me? I love it! IT's so helpful, and I think it's something that makes KSP even better, because your design possibilities aren't limited by the fixed shapes they give you.

[merendel]

I can see it as cheating when taken to extreams although I dont see morality haveing anything to do with it. Personally I'll do some minor clipping for aesthetic reasons. Things like cliping RTG's to hide them or slightly rotating radialy attached fuel pods to make the hull blend more smoothly. I will also often clip small parts inside of girder segments, its still technicly cliping even if visualy they fit just fine inside. Home made addapters where there is no normal alternitive is also fine by my book. I wont however clip multiple tanks so they are all occupying the same volume or airhoging with overlaping intakes. Airhogging is just silly and I dont see bending physics to fit a dozen times the quantity of fuel into the same volume (massive tank cliping) as any better.

[TimePeriod]

Can't make my 7 part SSTO if I can't part clip.

[Francois424]

It's something you pick-up while playing... I made a not-so-tall lander that has all science instrument, including a Goo container AND a Science Jr, with a bulky nuke engine clipped underneath so only the nozzle shows up. Using landing gears, I still have half-a-kerbal of room beneath it when landed. Never would have been possible without clipping... And if you where to look at it, you'd be hard pressed to see the Science Jr.

6k dV, room for one Kerbal, rather bottom-heavy (it really takes a lot to make that thing fall down), and with a shielded docking port on top to boot. Really, a perfect lander in my book. For higher-G moons/worlds tho it needs 4 additional radial engines. Quite proud of it. Now I just need to make an Apollo-style orbital stage with even more dV, and I'll have one hell of a craft for a future Jool-5 mission (or minmus biome gatherer)

I don't think of it as Immoral, unless you cram 60 air intakes, then boast that you managed an SSTO on the forums... heh.

[Mr. Speed]

I clip all the time, but only with certain parts. The stuff I clip most is structural, like the tail connector or structural fuselage. Also the airplane fuel tanks are sometimes a little clipped through with other parts, since they contain less fuel than rocket tanks for their size.