Star Wars 7

[Superfluous J]

Wow. The New Republic really didn't have their stuff together.

That's correct. The Empire was run by a political and strategical genius who simply replaced those at the very apex of the Galactic government and then churned out warships. The rebels were a bunch of people who didn't like it and fought back, somehow winning (spoiler alert) in the end because the Force, content to have destroyed 99% of the Jedi, chose the Light side over the Dark when the Emperor was sure it would chose the Dark over the Light.

The rebels did not plan to win the war, and they did not expect to win the war. They didn't even win the war, though they came out on top. They surely had no plans on what to do AFTER the war. EU or not, they were not in a position to manage the galaxy they just saved.

So yeah, a thousands-year-old Republic and an Empire have better production lines than a war-torn galaxy with no leadership. Who knew.

[Brethern]

That's correct. The Empire was run by a political and strategical genius who simply replaced those at the very apex of the Galactic government and then churned out warships. The rebels were a bunch of people who didn't like it and fought back, somehow winning (spoiler alert) in the end because the Force, content to have destroyed 99% of the Jedi, chose the Light side over the Dark when the Emperor was sure it would chose the Dark over the Light.

The rebels did not plan to win the war, and they did not expect to win the war. They didn't even win the war, though they came out on top. They surely had no plans on what to do AFTER the war. EU or not, they were not in a position to manage the galaxy they just saved.

So yeah, a thousands-year-old Republic and an Empire have better production lines than a war-torn galaxy with no leadership. Who knew.

There's a few incorrect facts, first off the Old republic was going to break down into a civil war regardless of external sources, palpatine probably knew this fact, so he manipulated things to ensure that casualties were going to be as low as possible. The two main combatants in the clone wars were droids and clones bred for that exact purpose.

Compared to what a no holds barred war civil war fought between mercs droids and whatever half trained civilian the republic could "organize" into an army things could have been allot worse.

Then in 20 years the rebels make things worse.

[_Augustus_]

I'm so excited.... but the tech hasn't increased at all? The Inquisitor has a cross-saber instead of a double-bladed lightsaber now? What?

[megatiger78]

There's a few incorrect facts, first off the Old republic was going to break down into a civil war regardless of external sources, palpatine probably knew this fact, so he manipulated things to ensure that casualties were going to be as low as possible. The two main combatants in the clone wars were droids and clones bred for that exact purpose.

Compared to what a no holds barred war civil war fought between mercs droids and whatever half trained civilian the republic could "organize" into an army things could have been allot worse.

Then in 20 years the rebels make things worse.

the empire was efficient to. It managed to get new kit to clones faster then the republic ever gave it out.

[Fingal]

Can we have a death scene for Jar Jar? I'll forgive Abrams for that last Star Trek film if he puts that in.

[Kryten]

Well, aside from a couple of books of short stories, those are about the only ones I've read.

Don't worry about it, they all officially never happened anyway. Only the films, the horrible animated 'clone wars' film and TV show, and some books published since the merger (those not labeled 'legends') are canon.

[Helix935]

semi related picture http://i.4cdn.org/b/1417195752653.jpg

Unless the non beam crossguard part is lightsaberproof then the design is dumb.

its a crossguard, it protects your fingers, you would only lose your fingers if you lack the strength of grip to prevent your hand from sliding and losing fingers anyway which since they are Jedi/Sith/Inquistor they can use the force to prevent this from happening plus the new effects for the lightsabers are awesome already

Can we have a death scene for Jar Jar? I'll forgive Abrams for that last Star Trek film if he puts that in.

only in our fanfictions or if Abrams decides to bring in super old Jar Jar just for the sake of killing him which isn't likely

Edited November 29, 2014 by Helix935
typo

[megatiger78]

how about mandolorians? do we at least get them?

[Drunken Hobo]

I never got star wars, I really don't understand the appeal

There's no science in it and none of the vehicles or locations look in any way real or used.

And then there's the story, space princesses, evil lords and planets of teddy bears

it makes the telletubbies look like deep social commentary

I've watched very little of it myself, but my problem is that it takes itself so seriously. When the main villain is a two metre tall guy in a black plastic mask, and the main form of combat is hitting each other with glow sticks, I struggle to take it seriously.

As I've watched so little I could be wrong, but at least that's the impression I've got from the small amount I've seen and the attitude of the fans.

[Fingal]

Don't worry about it, they all officially never happened anyway. Only the films, the horrible animated 'clone wars' film and TV show, and some books published since the merger (those not labeled 'legends') are canon.

What about the holiday special? Does that count?

[Kryten]

What about the holiday special? Does that count?

I think the official position is that it never happened. At all. Canonically or non-canonically.

[Helix935]

I'm so excited.... but the tech hasn't increased at all? The Inquisitor has a cross-saber instead of a double-bladed lightsaber now? What?

Each lightsaber is custom built by their wielder so whether or not it uses a cross guard, double sabers, or their general shape is determined by the person builds them unless, if some of the expanded universe books and games are actually canon, they can be manufactured if one is in position of the crystals used to power them. (in short, they are all custom so they can look however the person that built them chooses)

Also the lightsabers are part of a tradition between Jedi and Sith that stretches back thousands of years and have tried really hard to preserve them, no matter how difficult the galaxy has made it for them to keep to those traditions which, as we already know, tried really hard to eradicate them but has still persevered (in short, lightsabers aren't bound by normal technological progression as they are products of tradition and ritual unlike the guns and ships in the franchise)

How much the tech has actually changed in the 30 years since episode 6 is up to debate although best we can assume is that due to the advance state that their technology already is in the entire franchise, technological progression would have already been severely slowed down due to the fact it is really hard to improve technology that worked so well for thousands of years like for instance that until the production of automobiles by us, horses were the go-to for fast transportation for thousands of years. (in short, it would not have been really as fast as you think due to the fact there already advance technology would be tough to innovate as already seen by the steady progression of technology from episode 1 to 6)

[razark]

How much the tech has actually changed in the 30 years since episode 6 is up to debate although best we can assume is that due to the advance state that their technology already is in the entire franchise, technological progression would have already been severely slowed down...

Then why does the technology change between earlier movies?

...the steady progression of technology from episode 1 to 6

Exactly. There's progression there. From what we've seen, there was NO progression between 6 and 7.

[Helix935]

Then why does the technology change between earlier movies?

i assume you are referring to the usage of droids and the clone troopers. The Empire didn't use Droids because they realized that clone troopers were in fact much cheaper and superior due to their ability to improvise so they discontinued the use of droids as frontline troops and kept them as support equipment where they would be more useful.

Exactly. There's progression there. From what we've seen, there was NO progression between 6 and 7.

7 hasn't come out yet and from what we can tell there is in fact progression but how much so remains to be seen

god i hope this doesn't become a full on argument that forces a moderator to quit it down

[razark]

i assume you are referring to the usage of droids and the clone troopers.

Not at all. I pulled up the opening to Ep3, the battle over Coruscant to double check as an example. You see starfighters that are not X-Wings, but have some of the basic elements. Obviously they are in the same lineage as the famed ships. The fleet contains ships that are not Imperial Star Destroyers, but are precursors sharing the same basic wedge shape. There's no TIE Fighters in that battle. All of the ships from Ep4-6 are missing, but you can see the beginnings of the familiar forms. Between Ep4 and Ep6, the Rebels have added B and A wings to their inventory. (Although they may have been in existence, but not at Yavin.)

Then we skip ahead thirty years. From what was shown in the trailer, I saw X-Wings and TIE Fighters, and the Millennium Falcon (presumably). That's the stagnation that I'm referring to.

7 hasn't come out yet and from what we can tell there is in fact progression but how much so remains to be seen

That's what I'm hoping. With this trailer, we've seen very little of the actual movie. Part of me thinks that they may just be trying to catch our eyes with familiar ships that we already know, and that the movie will contain something new, and not just recycled stuff. (Of course the cynic in me thinks they already have the toy models for X-Wings, and it's easier than building new merchandise.)

[Vanamonde]

Heretical opinion: Star Wars started to fall apart with the second movie (that's Empire Strikes Back, before they retconned the "chapter" numbers), degenerated into downright wretchedness as they dragged on, and I have no interest in seeing another. Furthermore, I will never forgive Abrams for turning Star Trek into a lame-brained action movie with a crew of buffoonish caricatures. In summation, I might watch this when it's eventually run on tv, but just out of morbid curiosity.

[Brethern]

Heretical opinion: Star Wars started to fall apart with the second movie (that's Empire Strikes Back, before they retconned the "chapter" numbers), degenerated into downright wretchedness as they dragged on, and I have no interest in seeing another. Furthermore, I will never forgive Abrams for turning Star Trek into a lame-brained action movie with a crew of buffoonish caricatures. In summation, I might watch this when it's eventually run on tv, but just out of morbid curiosity.

It might be a lame brained action movie, but it's one where consoles don't explode, Jeffries tubes don't exist, and as far as I can tell star fleet academy is what it should have been.

Oh and also it removes the entire humans moved on from their nature vibe that was so common in the show.

[CptRichardson]

Not at all. I pulled up the opening to Ep3, the battle over Coruscant to double check as an example. You see starfighters that are not X-Wings, but have some of the basic elements. Obviously they are in the same lineage as the famed ships. The fleet contains ships that are not Imperial Star Destroyers, but are precursors sharing the same basic wedge shape. There's no TIE Fighters in that battle. All of the ships from Ep4-6 are missing, but you can see the beginnings of the familiar forms. Between Ep4 and Ep6, the Rebels have added B and A wings to their inventory. (Although they may have been in existence, but not at Yavin.)

Then we skip ahead thirty years. From what was shown in the trailer, I saw X-Wings and TIE Fighters, and the Millennium Falcon (presumably). That's the stagnation that I'm referring to.

The TIEs have obvious additions to their design, the Falcon got cleaned up quite a bit, and we've already seen several times that the X-Wings are of a new design that could best be described as the difference between the original F-18's and the Super Hornets. Plenty of real world examples of similar things going on (MiG-21's, aforementioned F-18's, C-130's...).

[Capt.Joseph Kerbertson]

With Republic Commandos

They look like shadow troopers to me. The Empire died, so it would make sense that there would be a new trooper.

x-wings speeding across a lake... YESSSSS!!!!

[razark]

The TIEs have obvious additions to their design, the Falcon got cleaned up quite a bit, and we've already seen several times that the X-Wings are of a new design that could best be described as the difference between the original F-18's and the Super Hornets.

Hmm. I honestly did not catch those. I might have to go back and look at the trailer again to see if I can. I did notice the big radar dish on the Falcon was different, and a slowdown in design changes would make sense if the "big war" is over.

(And if it is true, Old Man razark will need to find something else to shake his fist at.)

[vger]

Oh and also it removes the entire humans moved on from their nature vibe that was so common in the show.

And... there was a problem with that WHY?

Heretical opinion: Star Wars started to fall apart with the second movie (that's Empire Strikes Back, before they retconned the "chapter" numbers), degenerated into downright wretchedness as they dragged on, and I have no interest in seeing another.

...owch. No, not heretical. Just inhumane

What was wrong with Empire? And this question is coming from one of those rare fans who DOESN'T think ESB was the best film.

[Brethern]

And... there was a problem with that WHY?

...owch. No, not heretical. Just inhumane

What was wrong with Empire? And this question is coming from one of those rare fans who DOESN'T think ESB was the best film.

Maybe because I want to enjoy a good sci fi show, It gets really hard to watch a show that constantly throws a persons political view points in my face.

Given the rules on this forum It's safe to say I'm not the only person to feel that way.

[Sandworm]

Maybe because I want to enjoy a good sci fi show, It gets really hard to watch a show that constantly throws a persons political view points in my face.

Given the rules on this forum It's safe to say I'm not the only person to feel that way.

I think it safe to assume that politics will be a core theme. It's Disney's IP now and they don't do anything without massive audience research.

If you map the movies in the order in which they were created, including the rehashes (ie Han shot first), they mirror changes in the American political landscape. That's what happens when scripts see to many focus groups. Heros cannot shoot first anymore. Guns are for self defense. Films can no longer discuss religion. Replace it with Midi-chlorians. Princesses are not born but elected, for two four-year terms no less. And power is handed to an imperial leader by a duped legislature. At this rate I expect the next movie to be about health care reform.

To quote Sheldon "I prefer to be disappointed in the order George Lucas intended."

Edited November 30, 2014 by Sandworm

[Brethern]

I think it safe to assume that politics will be a core theme. It's Disney's IP now and they don't do anything without massive audience research.

If you map the movies in the order in which they were created, including the rehashes (ie Han shot first), they mirror changes in the American political landscape. That's what happens when scripts see to many focus groups. Heros cannot shoot first anymore. Guns are for self defense. Films can no longer discuss religion. Replace it with Midi-chlorians. Princesses are not born but elected, for two four-year terms no less. And power is handed to an imperial leader by a duped legislature. At this rate I expect the next movie to be about health care reform.

To quote Sheldon "I prefer to be disappointed in the order George Lucas intended."

Now you're making me miss firefly.

Honestly we're going to have to wait and see what direction they going to take star wars. Theory crafting is pointless.

[vger]

If you map the movies in the order in which they were created, including the rehashes (ie Han shot first), they mirror changes in the American political landscape. That's what happens when scripts see to many focus groups. Heros cannot shoot first anymore. Guns are for self defense. Films can no longer discuss religion. Replace it with Midi-chlorians. Princesses are not born but elected, for two four-year terms no less. And power is handed to an imperial leader by a duped legislature. At this rate I expect the next movie to be about health care reform.

Actually it's far worse than that. This goes right back to the 'relateable' problem I mentioned earlier. People are somehow becoming MORE narrow-minded, meaning that all movies have to somehow be a direct reflection of their real life, where only the scenery and the cool toys are allowed to be different. It amazes me how many cartoons I used to watch as a child that presented to me other worlds that introduced new spiritual, political, social, etc. systems that I had never seen before, and more unique concepts than my brain knew what to do with. I go to a source for what the modern equivalent of that is, and all I see are "foreign" worlds where everything works pretty much exactly the same as what I could experience by walking out the front door. And the same has now become true (for the most part) with adult-targeted entertainment as well. Whether not this is just a case of entertainment grossly underestimating the audience, or everyone really has become that boring, I don't know. But in the case of Star Trek being altered to match that, it's almost ironic.

"To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life forms and new civilizations."

In other words, the exact opposite of what Hollywood does now. We don't get strange new worlds. We get Earth after Earth after Earth (or often even more specifically, America after America after America). Classic Trek had its share of 'parallel Earths' but it never tried to hide when it was going down that route. But these days? Vulcan, the quintessential voice of reason in the Star Trek universe has to be even more primally 'human' than the humans are.

Over to the quote you were responding to...

Maybe because I want to enjoy a good sci fi show, It gets really hard to watch a show that constantly throws a persons political view points in my face.

Given the rules on this forum It's safe to say I'm not the only person to feel that way.

Your problem with Star Trek is that it's Star Trek. If you want sci-fi without politics you don't have to look very far to find it these days. It's nice to have at least a COUPLE things still out there that encourage people to think about who and what they are, where they're going and why, what their place in the universe is, and how they can make the universe better (besides by killing a big evil tyrant).

And your assessment of the forum population's opinion on politics is a very poor argument. Politics on this forum is forbidden because the popular belief is that it always leads to arguments, NOT because nobody wants to hear about politics. I can think of many political threads that went a VERY long way in an intelligent and civilized manner, but then got locked anyway simply because the threat of a flame war is still present. Kind of sad, because I've never found a forum ANYWHERE that is able to handle politics as well as this one, and that's because we have a lot of folks here who think very similar to how the people in the Star Trek universe do. We don't just want to argue for our "party," we look at the human race as a whole and want to work together to find actual solutions to problems. A very rare mindset on Earth, unfortunately, but we have an abundance of it here.