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[1.12.x] Mark IV Spaceplane System (August 18, 2024)

Nertea

By Nertea
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Nertea

Nertea

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As a starting point, it looks like most structural spaceplane parts (as seen in DeadlyReentry/SPP.cfg) have a max temperature of 1500 (except for crew-bearing parts, which have 1700) and 25% reflective shielding in various directions -- all around for most fuselage segments, 0, 0.5, 0.5 for noses, and 0, 0, 1 for inline cockpits.

Seems simple enough. I'll look into it and try to put up a MM config later today, and include it in the main D/L next version.

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Rakaydos

Rakaydos

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What are the proportions of this?

Mk 2 is a little taller than 1.25m parts and 2.5m wide

The new porkjet Mk 3 is a little wider than 2.5m and 3.75m tall

I would love a version of this hullplan that is slightly more than 3.75m tall and 5m wide, for a heavy cargo craft well beyond "shuttle" size.

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MavisLenya

MavisLenya

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just my thoughts:

I like it very much and as you said you are going to make one bottom opening cargo bays are needed and how about making those side things removable and so that i can choose what to put in them like LFO or mono, and can you make that i can put a engine at their end as well ... lets see what did I forgot ?

oh yes cant you do like b9 by pressing right click you choose what to put it the part? I would really like this one

really good idea with the service compartment!i like it

can you give us longer parts a little faster?

since you did a drone part how about a front for that with no windows and such?

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endl

endl

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well i just tried my first design using this mod and FAR/Deadly Renentry

lots of things to go over so bare with me :(

fuselage problems:

placing landing gear is difficult especially if using the ramp. getting the right angle is tricky and im using bahamoto's adjustable landing gear

placing RCS is difficult all the curved surfaces make parts clip when trying to fix angles with RCSbuildaid for example

radial fuel tanks have no fuel

very unstable with far aero, in sim my numbers are all green i get to 7k and it starts drifting hard all over

engines are not giving enough thrust with far i gain like no speed in lower atmosphere

on the plus side this thing does 2 things better then my b9 HL cargo plane, its 30t lighter and has a crew cabin which i could not do with B9 HL parts

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Edited by endl
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Nertea

Nertea

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Response is pretty good, thanks guys!

To people looking forward to longer parts: I tested out a double sized bay and it looked kinda puny. Interested in opinion on what multiple to use, I'm thinking 3x length might be more useful.

Nice work, I like the style....

:blush: frizzank compliment :blush:

They're out! Congratulations on another mod well done. I know it's a minor part, but I love the triple engine/intake mount.

I know! It's my favorite part :P

just my thoughts:

I like it very much and as you said you are going to make one bottom opening cargo bays are needed and how about making those side things removable and so that i can choose what to put in them like LFO or mono, and can you make that i can put a engine at their end as well ... lets see what did I forgot ?

oh yes cant you do like b9 by pressing right click you choose what to put it the part? I would really like this one

really good idea with the service compartment!i like it

can you give us longer parts a little faster?

since you did a drone part how about a front for that with no windows and such?

Let's see... well, for the first one, read the FAQ, the "side things" are staying. I am trying to get away from requiring plugins with the mod so no Firespitter switching out of the box, however I intend to fold something like ObsessedWithKSP's configs in eventually. There is a front part with no windows, it's in the third image in the OP. Mk4 'Armadillo' adapter. No. I can not give you longer parts faster.

Wow, amazing work as always Nertea!! Just imagining the possibilities for this as a heavy transport. Please say you're making pods like TB2? :D

I have a cunning plan involving a frame piece with an invisible docking node and a pod part that has a high impact resistance.

well i just tried my first design using this mod and FAR/Deadly Renentry

lots of things to go over so bare with me :(

fuselage problems:

placing landing gear is difficult especially if using the ramp. getting the right angle is tricky and im using bahamoto's adjustable landing gear

placing RCS is difficult all the curved surfaces make parts clip when trying to fix angles with RCSbuildaid for example

radial fuel tanks have no fuel

very unstable with far aero, in sim my numbers are all green i get to 7k and it starts drifting hard all over

engines are not giving enough thrust with far i gain like no speed in lower atmosphere

on the plus side this thing does 2 things better then my b9 HL cargo plane, its 30t lighter and has a crew cabin which i could not do with B9 HL parts

http://imgur.com/a/Ea0Cf

Hmm, are you using angle snap with mounting the gear? Angle snap on:requires rotation to fix. Angle snap off: works exactly as intended with no rotation. Then again, I haven't tried the adjustable landing gear, maybe they're different.

I don't know what you mean by radial fuel tanks have no fuel - there are no radial fuel tanks in the mod :P.

Re: the FAR stuff, I'm not terribly surprised that its not great, but I have no experience with this - telling me that it's wrong isn't quite going to cut it, because I don't really know what to do to fix it (tell me how lol). The only thing I might have a hint at is the drifting, I've noticed that there can be runway drift in stock, so that might be accentuated, I may have to go precisely through all parts and make sure every collider is perfectly centered.

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Stone Blue

Stone Blue

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Nice!...I love B9, but its so big, and I run so many other mods at the same time, that I pretty much have to have two types of separate installs/gameplay, with B9 and SSTOs separate from everything else. Unless I start manually cutting LOTS of parts out of my install.

This should be nice having bigger SSTO parts that I can use along with modded rockets and stations.... :D

Now, just a couple things I noticed right away that "I" would like to see:

An inline docking port/fuselage, and is it possible to somehow get things to attach to the cargo bay deck?....I got all kinds of little items to stick to the walls, but I cant get anything onto the floor...(And the service bay is genius... :) :thumbsup:) I got a stock 2.5m ASAS module to fit in it...(except when you add another fuselage module behind it, it seems to overlap the mesh, and you get that bllinky, holograph thing going on...lol)

Also, (maybe I am not remembering correctly), but there doesnt seem to be any solar panels geared toward SSTOs. Yes, there are many you can use, but most do not fit either physically or aesthetically, and more importantly, flush along the fuselage lines, or in the cargo bays.

I was looking at the conformal radiators from, IIRC, Near Future (?), thinking something like that might work somehow inside the curve of the cargo bay doors, but they are curved the wrong way in relation to the mounting points....

So I guess I'm asking either flat, curved exterior solar panels, or something that will fit the internal side of the cargo bay doors, like on the real Space Shuttle?...

Otherwise, this pack is looking SHWEEETTT!!...

Edited by Stone Blue
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blowfish

blowfish

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very unstable with far aero, in sim my numbers are all green i get to 7k and it starts drifting hard all over

engines are not giving enough thrust with far i gain like no speed in lower atmosphere

Your stability derivatives having the correct sign doesn't guarantee that it will fly well, only that perturbations won't cause your craft to spin out of control. Check your Cm curve, maybe try a more conventional design and see if it's still the case. The FAR setup looks right in the CFG and there's not much that can be changed.

As for the engines, it's possible that they need a thrust boost under FAR (since FAR nerfs air breathing engines by 50%) but let's explore some other explanations first. What's your TWR? If you enable aero visibility, do any parts seem to be creating unusually large amounts of drag?

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Nertea

Nertea

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Nice!...I love B9, but its so big, and I run so many other mods at the same time, that I pretty much have to have two types of separate installs/gameplay, with B9 and SSTOs separate from everything else. Unless I start manually cutting LOTS of parts out of my install.

This should be nice having bigger SSTO parts that I can use along with modded rockets and stations.... :D

Now, just a couple things I noticed right away that "I" would like to see:

An inline docking port/fuselage, and is it possible to somehow get things to attach to the cargo bay deck?....I got all kinds of little items to stick to the walls, but I cant get anything onto the floor...(And the service bay is genius... :) :thumbsup:) I got a stock 2.5m ASAS module to fit in it...(except when you add another fuselage module behind it, it seems to overlap the mesh, and you get that bllinky, holograph thing going on...lol)

Also, (maybe I am not remembering correctly), but there doesnt seem to be any solar panels geared toward SSTOs. Yes, there are many you can use, but most do not fit either physically or aesthetically, and more importantly, flush along the fuselage lines, or in the cargo bays.

I was looking at the conformal radiators from, IIRC, Near Future (?), thinking something like that might work somehow inside the curve of the cargo bay doors, but they are curved the wrong way in relation to the mounting points....

So I guess I'm asking either flat, curved exterior solar panels, or something that will fit the internal side of the cargo bay doors, like on the real Space Shuttle?...

Otherwise, this pack is looking SHWEEETTT!!...

Inline docking port exactly won't be happening, but I do plan a kind of airlock piece with telescoping docking port that would be placed in the cargo bay, similar to the way the Shuttle docking port looks. Far future though.

Solar panels to fit exactly in the cargo bays or on the outer hull would be kinda too single purpose (very specific curvature). I can imagine a kinda cool looking podded solar panel that would slide or fold open though. That might be fun to make.

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endl

endl

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Hmm, are you using angle snap with mounting the gear? Angle snap on:requires rotation to fix. Angle snap off: works exactly as intended with no rotation. Then again, I haven't tried the adjustable landing gear, maybe they're different.

I don't know what you mean by radial fuel tanks have no fuel - there are no radial fuel tanks in the mod :P.

Re: the FAR stuff, I'm not terribly surprised that its not great, but I have no experience with this - telling me that it's wrong isn't quite going to cut it, because I don't really know what to do to fix it (tell me how lol). The only thing I might have a hint at is the drifting, I've noticed that there can be runway drift in stock, so that might be accentuated, I may have to go precisely through all parts and make sure every collider is perfectly centered.

with respect to landing gear its a question of useable surface space, with heavier planes you want to go wider since the wings will have to be wider too.

i was under the assumption the engine pods were also radial fuel tanks

i cant really tell you how to fix it for far since i dont know how ferram balances it, but the problem is just the way you have your numbers set up for engine performance it scales differently and the current set up definitely feels like its for stock aero performance. you might want to just ask ferram if you have an interest in supporting FAR with your mod. just as an example the plane i pictured has a TWR of 1.2 but flies like it has a TWR of .5, it gets off the ground but gains no ALT at a 45 climb and no speed either

as for the drag problems i think its caused by the way the nose is modeled you might want to ask ferram again to take a look.

also as a side note are there any plans for VTOL or HYBRID NUKE engines? i have those set up for the plane but it would be nice if someone made some to cut parts down for those of us who want a plane that can do everything.

Edited by endl
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blowfish

blowfish

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endl: I think you're going to have to demonstrate that something is wrong first. The usual FAR setup in the CFG is very simple and has zero fine tuning involved. Occasionally a part will require custom drag parameters but that is almost never the case. Engine curves are also not very different between stock aero and FAR - FAR nerfs thrust by 50% but that's across the board and the TWR you're seeing will be the corrected TWR. It's possible your acceleration problems have to do with a part creating more drag than it should. To check this enable FAR's drag visibility and see if any one part is creating a lot more drag than the others (the nose should of course be creating more but not hugely). If it is, try re-attaching that part and everything attached to it (that's been my problem more than once). If the problem persists then it's probably a bug.

EDIT: Though it might be worth adjusting the SCIMITAR's VelocityCurve to be more like the RAPIER's under FAR:

@PART[RAPIER]:FOR[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*],0
	{
		@maxThrust = 100
		@velocityCurve
		{
			@key,0 = 0 0.8 0 -0.00098
			@key,1 = 170 0.7 0 0
			@key,2 = 400 0.8 0.00049 0.00049
			@key,3 = 1100 1 0 0
			key = 1700 0 -0.00098 0
		}
	}
}

Edited by blowfish
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Stone Blue

Stone Blue

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Inline docking port exactly won't be happening, but I do plan a kind of airlock piece with telescoping docking port that would be placed in the cargo bay, similar to the way the Shuttle docking port looks. Far future though.

Fair enough. :)

Incidentally, when i saw there was not an inline with the pack, i went to grab the angled port from the ISS Community Pack, but then I remembered I just uninstalled it yesterday cuz I was only using one of the docking ports out of the whole pack, and I need to cut SOMETHING out of 1100 parts...lol

Solar panels to fit exactly in the cargo bays or on the outer hull would be kinda too single purpose (very specific curvature). I can imagine a kinda cool looking podded solar panel that would slide or fold open though. That might be fun to make.

Also fair enough... :) Like I said, lots of things will work, just my OCD kicks in, and I wanna get greedy with function AND form...lol

Before I made my previous post, here's what i attempted:

(Sorry, pics uploaded in the wrong order...lol)

B4os71ms.jpg

EDIT: DOH...I've never used imgur before, so bear with me...lol

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Edited by Stone Blue
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