Best way to practice landing spaceplanes?

[lukeoftheaura]

Ho do I practice spaceplane landing?

The only way I know is:

1. take off.

2. fly inverted to the end of the runway.

3. Try to land.

Any better ways? I am using NEAR by the way.

Edited December 1, 2014 by kerbingamer376

[zekes]

You can use hyperedit to "land" the plane a free KM east of the runway, take off, and fly back to the runway. But normally I just take off, fly around, and land on the other side of the runway.

[lukeoftheaura]

You can use hyperedit to "land" the plane a free KM east of the runway, take off, and fly back to the runway. But normally I just take off, fly around, and land on the other side of the runway.

thanks. I'll try that, I have hyperedit.

What are the co-ords for behind the runway?

[numerobis]

Take off. Fly to the island runway. Land.

Or if you really just mean landing, not necessarily lining up with the runway, take off, land. Take off, bank, turn, level out, land.. Repeat ad nauseum.

Other things to try: try landing between the buildings -- including practice aborting the landing when you line up wrong.

Try landing on the hill 5km away where the map colour changes and elevation goes up a couple hundred meters fairly steeply.

In the SPH, empty out your tanks and practice landing with the balance maybe a bit off.

Edited December 1, 2014 by numerobis

[lukeoftheaura]

Take off. Fly to the island runway. Land.

errrrr..... you need to know how to fly for that, and I can't fly very well

[numerobis]

errrrr..... you need to know how to fly for that, and I can't fly very well

Ah. For that, I edited my post to add some options that will help you learn both flying and landing.

It definitely takes a while to get the hang of things.

[Slam_Jones]

Well, practice makes perfect. Hop on Sandbox mode and crash a few times til you've got it figured out

[lukeoftheaura]

Well, practice makes perfect. Hop on Sandbox mode and crash a few times til you've got it figured out

I am on sandbox.

[phunk]

Take off, fly out a bit, turn around, quicksave. Then quickload and land as many times as you want.

[lukeoftheaura]

I now do this:

Fly across the bay

quicksave

load my quicksave

land

reload the quicksave

land

etc.

[LethalDose]

I found the best way to practice landing a spaceplane was just to practice landing a plane. Build a little trainer aircraft with just a basic jet engine and practice taking off and landing with that. When you've got a handle on that, I expect your spaceplane landings will go smoother. Or you'll figure out where you're having trouble better.

[kerbiloid]

1. Put Mechjeb on your plane.

2. Start, fly away from runway.

3. Use Spaceplane guide mode.

4. Let Mechjeb bring you to the runway..

5. As Mechjeb usualy crashes my plane on touchdown  switch off Mechjeb and finish your landing manually.

Repeat this several times and remember positions, distances, speed values and orienting points as Mechjeb does this.

Reproduce Mechjeb's guidance yourself.

[Hodo]

What I did for a long time was touch and goes, I do it in every flight sim I play so I can get in the hang of landing.

But tips what to do to help.

Disable your nose wheel brakes in the action groups. They have a tendency to flip your craft.

Also add real chutes and put drag chutes on the back of your craft for slowing down without the need of brakes, or very limited use of brakes.

Aerobrakes or Air brakes are a must in FAR and NEAR.

flaps also are useful for landing conventional wing aircraft, they dont work on delta wings.

last but no less important is your approach angle.

I usually use a 3-5 deg glide slope, which means my rate of decent or flight indicator is never more than 3-5deg below the horizon on landing. Generally this keeps my rate of decent above -10m/s ideally I want to touchdown at about -5m/s and 70-90m/s or about 140-200kts. depending on the aircraft.

I try to keep the nose up until the front wheel automatically falls to the ground, I then apply the brakes. I deploy my drag chute as soon as I touchdown with the rear wheels. This is great for slowing down in a VERY short space and oddly enough how real military aircraft land.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Hodo

[capi3101]

Before I start flying with a new version of KSP I usually begin by putting four drop probes on a rover and run it out to the runway. I drop a probe just off the seaside (east) end of the runway (as close as I can get it to the raised runway area without it actually being on that area), then repeat on the landward (west) side. I drive another kilometer west and drop another probe. I drive another four kilometers (i.e. five kilometers from the west end of the runway) and drop the last probe. I drive another five kilometers (ten kilometers from the west end of the runway) and park the rover. I'll relabel each drop probe and the rover itself as a base, usually with the name "Meatball" and the distance to the end of the runway. Boom - an ILS system.

Incidentally, you don't *have* to use drop probes; flags work just as well, though I find they have an annoying tendency to explode/disappear more readily.

So, how to use it - first off, fly with the camera in chase mode. Just hit the "V" key a couple of times and position the camera right behind your craft (or close enough that you can still see what you're doing - sometimes the exhaust plume will restrict your visibility). I usually perform entire flights in chase mode; I find it helpful. Provided you didn't have much in terms of steering problems, the markers you set out should be on a rough straight line along the center of the runway, so what you want to do is line them up roughly mid-screen and keep them aligned as you go on final. That'll ensure that you stay lined up with the runway properly. For your glide slope, pick a marker. Add the distance of that marker from the end of the runway to your current distance to that marker, multiply that by a hundred and add one hundred - the final result is where you want your current altimeter reading. FOR EXAMPLE: Let's say you're 22.4 kilometers from the 10 kilometer marker. You want to be at ((22.4+10)*100)+100 = (34.5*100)+100 = 3450+100 = 3550 meters. From that you can tell if you're high or low. Actual altimeter elevation of the KSC runway is about 70 meters, hence the additional 100 meter correction; you could just as easily add 70 meters but I find 100 is easier to deal with.

If you're not adverse to mods, you could just install NavUtilities - it'll give you an ILS with adjustable glideslope settings. It'll also allow you to select your target runway; even has a setting for the VAB helipads.

When it comes to the actual landing, just keep your wings level, engage your flaps, and try not to descend too fast (5 m/s downward is generally where you want to max out). Disable the brakes on the nose gear and engage steering; you want to do that in the SPH when you design your plane. Touch down wheels first, kill the engines if you haven't already and hit the brakes.

And practice, practice, practice. Landing is something you'll botch a lot before you finally get it right (just like the way it goes with most of us the first time we go to land on Mun). Hell, at this point I'm a fairly experienced spaceplane jockey and I still botch the landings occasionally...

Edited December 2, 2014 by capi3101

[Hodo]

I used to do the probe thing, but I found the added parts in the area added lag, and they often got in the way of seeing the runway with the icons over them.

I found the MJ landing guidance ILS system to be a bit more useful. And that is ALL MJ does in landing.

[Oafman]

Practice is not the Kerbal way. Just wing it...

[Wanderfound]

Practice is not the Kerbal way. Just wing it...

Tried that, broke the wings off...

[lukeoftheaura]

1. Put Mechjeb on your plane.

2. Start, fly away from runway.

3. Use Spaceplane guide mode.

4. Let Mechjeb bring you to the runway..

5. As Mechjeb usualy crashes my plane on touchdown  switch off Mechjeb and finish your landing manually.

Repeat this several times and remember positions, distances, speed values and orienting points as Mechjeb does this.

Reproduce Mechjeb's guidance yourself.

last time I checked, Mechjeb was Incompatible with NEAR

[Wanderfound]

Late to the party, but:

Do a named quicksave (alt-F5) with yourself about 20km from the runway. Try to have it as close as you can manage to lined up, at about 500m altitude and 120m/s speed with minimal engines on minimal throttle. From there, it's only a minute or so to landing, so you can quickly fly half a dozen practice runs in succession by quickloading.

Grab yourself Kerbal Flight Indicators. This is a small, elegant and efficient mod that projects the navball indicators into the main view in a non-intrusive way (easy to toggle on and off, too). All you need to do is put the prograde marker just past the nearest end of the runway and keep it there as you come in, keeping your sink rate below 10m/s at impact. If you watch the prograde marker while you do your final approach manoeuvres, you'll get a really clear look at the effects of the controls on the trajectory of the ship.

Shallower approach = easier to control sink rate. Lined up correctly earlier = easier to land with wings level and no sideslip. A little post-landing steering correction is better than a last second banking turn or rudder stomp. Then it's just brake brake brake and steer as gently as possible to keep it on the runway.