Ways to convince people that the Moon landings were real

[Torquemadus]

One of the biggest difficulties in discussing the Moon landings is establishing exactly what NASA is being accused of faking in the first place. If this were clearly defined, we could look at what evidence is supposed to have been falsified, who is supposed to have lied, and what their motive was supposed to have been.

Conspiracy theorists claim that NASA faked the TV coverage, still photos and film camera footage. Of course, this claim has to cover all of the landings, not just Apollo 11.

On the later J Class missions (15, 16 and 17), a good quality TV camera was mounted on the rover and was remotely controlled from Earth, allowing geology experts at mission control to watch the EVAs in real time. Excellent film camera footage was also shot from the rover while it was in motion across a vast landscape with beautiful mountainous terrain. Film cameras were also used to film the view from the LEM window during landing and take off. Footage was also shot from the Command Module of the LEM, showing the LEM in flight both after undocking and during rendezvous and docking manoeuvers.

There was also a lot of footage shot while in space. For example showing the extraction of the LEM from the S4B upper stage. Lots of footage of the Moon was shot from orbit. Also, lots of footage was shot of the crew inside the spacecraft in zero-gravity.

It also goes without saying that there's also a heck of a lot of footage of hardware fabrication, vehicle assembly, rollout, pad operations, crew ingress, launch, splashdown and crew egress. (I have loads of footage on DVD and Blu-Ray. Yes, I'm a nerd! )

We also know that lots of people worked on Project Apollo both as part of NASA and for the various aerospace companies that were contracted to build the hardware.

So, we need to establish exactly which part of the missions is supposed to have been faked. The bigger the portion of the mission that was faked, the more evidence needs to have been somehow falsified and the more people who would have to have been in on it. In other words: if there was a lie, how big was the lie?

Let's speculate. Let's say that the accusation is that the entire programme was for real, but that one of the crews found something that needed to be covered up, such as evidence of aliens or something. Others might claim that the landings were a front for some kind of covert mission. Either way, this would require the entirety of the Manned Spaceflight Centre in Houston to be in on the conspiracy, along with any ground stations that handled relay of TV signals and voice communications. Bear in mind that most conspiracy theorists aren't claiming this, they're claiming that the landings never happened at all.

Claiming that the landings never happened at all requires the conspiracy to be HUGE. This would require the entire programme including the whole of NASA and all the aerospace contractors to be in on it, both in the past and in the present. The conspiracy theorists are the ones who need to prove their claims, not NASA.

[GoSlash27]

Nah. That's too much effort. Here's how to do it:

Launch them into space on the Saturn V. They spend several days in LEO, talking and sending pictures to Earth. At the end of the mission, they deorbit and get picked up. The trick is that during the mission, you broadcast previously recorded footage of the moon landing and EVA.

Except that wouldn't work. The signals have to *actually* come from the moon, otherwise the Russians would notice that the bearings don't match. Now... you *could* send a small ship to the moon and have it transmit pre-recorded images, audio, and data.

Best,

-Slashy

Edited December 7, 2014 by GoSlash27

[zekes]

I had a run-in with this guy on youtube.... so many logic holes the moon might as well be swiss cheese.

All well explained. but what was forgotten was that these flights to the Moon were Sling Shot flights, and it did not have Human beings on board, due to the very basic reason of Flight within a Vacuum of space, will not allow the craft to alter its course or attitude, and therefor get overheated, very cold and Radiated, by the Sun. Humans will die within it, unless it is encased in Lead,which would have made it to heavy, for take off. Mankind unfortunately has not set foot on the Moon in this life time. NASA has not yet succeeded in finding an engine which will work in vacuum of space, and please do not use Newtons Law to explain, as it is only possible to have reation within a gravity area l

It is a fact that the Russians and the USA did send craft to the moon, but till today, it has been without human life on board.

The Russians found out about the lie, and both the USA and the Russian lied to the World. The Cold War stopped very soon after that.... Wonder why?

Just think... a Space craft with three men onboard, water, air scrubbing equipment, sewerage, and useless computors,or rather to big and taking up space, then we have the craft encased in Lead, as it was required due to Radiation going though the Radiation Earth Belts and in the Vacuum of Space. Then we have the usless cameras, and do not forget the Hasselbladt Equipment was not a color Image camera.

Then the craft required constant turning to prevent overheating and cold, and radiation, then land on the Moon, and then take off again with very little fuel in 10 th gravity.( Do nt forget the weight due to the lead) Landing took place within 36 hours from the moment Aldrin said he saw the Moon ! That was incredibly fast ! Then the ........ words "The Eagle has landed "

Do not forget to explain the 200 plus who were personel who were in, on the Apollo lie, and they were well paid for it !

The other flight personel did not know about the lie. The Craft was in Orbit around the Earth and not on the Moon. Leaked douments of this lie is available on line, besides the fact that who ever has this information wants lots of money and security. Of the 2000 workers who worked at NASA during those years , only a few still, and of the live of the original 200 plus personel we still have about 5 living either with Alzeimers, or close to the pearly gates. The truth is closer now than ever ! President Johsnons sealed Documents willbe opend in 2016, and then there will be lots of tears regarding Apollo Mission Lies !

40 years later and we are still as earth bound and as high as the ISS will allow us before it gets to dangerous !

See the comment below.

Kill0Your0TV

5 hours ago (edited)

Everything NASA did in low earth orbit was mostly genuine. Any claims of having men outside low earth orbit, beyond the Van Allen belts, past the earth's magnetosphere and into deep space is laughable. NASA to this day has never even sent a dog into deep space, let alone men playing golf on the moon.

[razark]

Except that wouldn't work.

<sigh> Yes, yes, people. I know it wouldn't work. I know why it wouldn't work.

Did y'all notice the post I was replying to?

Someone said "Launch for cameras, secretly deorbit, fake it in Nevada, secretly relaunch, and then deorbit for cameras."

My response is that if you're going to do that, it's easier to launch, broadcast already faked footage, and then deorbit.

[PakledHostage]

Well, of course. Don't forget that they tracked the telemetry. Aside from any number of amateur radio hobbyists that tracked Apollo to the moon and back as well.

Interesting sidebar to the story of the explosion aboard Apollo 13's Odyssey is that the explosion was witnessed from the ground by some off-duty NASA employees through a 16-inch Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope.

[GoSlash27]

<sigh> Yes, yes, people. I know it wouldn't work. I know why it wouldn't work.

Did y'all notice the post I was replying to?

Someone said "Launch for cameras, secretly deorbit, fake it in Nevada, secretly relaunch, and then deorbit for cameras."

My response is that if you're going to do that, it's easier to launch, broadcast already faked footage, and then deorbit.

Yeah, and I'm not pickin' on ya. Just pointing out that the "broadcast already faked footage" part of it wouldn't actually work.

Best,

-Slashy

[BagelRabbit]

Nah. That's too much effort. Here's how to do it:

Launch them into space on the Saturn V. They spend several days in LEO, talking and sending pictures to Earth. At the end of the mission, they deorbit and get picked up. The trick is that during the mission, you broadcast previously recorded footage of the moon landing and EVA.

Yeah, you're more-or-less right.

Okay, how about this one:

Over the course of the Moon landings, there were thousands of still images taken, as well as loads of film, live SSTV broadcasts, and audio recordings. These are entirely consistent with the environment on the Moon. Not only are all of the mountains in the right place, shot after shot, but small details, such as astronauts' footprints or the placement of small rocks are also very, very consistent. In many cases, we can stitch together a proper panorama from Apollo landing sites, encompassing a 360-degree field of view, with all landmarks very recognizable and consistent with where they were supposed to be. (For example, mountains and valleys are photographically depicted exactly as they were in later pictures of the Moon.) Furthermore, there were small surface details that the Apollo astronauts saw while descending, that recent lunar orbiters have confirmed are there, and that we had no idea about before the Apollo missions.

It gets better:

On the Moon, later Apollo astronauts drove their lunar rovers for miles across the landscape. They took pictures and video as they travelled. In none of the pictures are the mountains in the background appreciably moving as the quite evidently speed by the closer and smaller rocks, and kick up clouds of lunar dust. Using the principle of parallax, the soundstage would have needed to be a minimum of some ten or fifteen square miles to account for this. So some guys created an ultra-detailed, extremely large soundstage without anyone noticing...?

Edited December 8, 2014 by UpsilonAerospace

[Overfloater]

Thus, I want to figure out how to convince at least a few of them that the landings were real. Please help me come up with ideas.

Force-volunteer all the conspiracy theorists for a Moon-One program.

[Ikaneko]

Use a mass-relay from Danny 2462 to shoot them to the Moon and let them see the evidence for themselves (Then man will have definitely landed on the Moon AND we will have silenced the doubters forever)

Quite literally! MUHAHAHA!!

[razark]

Furthermore, there were small surface details that the Apollo astronauts saw while descending, that recent lunar orbiters have confirmed are there, and that we had no idea about before the Apollo missions.

Ok, in 1969, NASA faked the landings. 40 years later, people are questioning if it ever happened. Suddenly, there's pictures of the landing sites to prove it. But what is the source of those pictures? Of course! NASA itself. It only figures that NASA would have an interest in maintaining the conspiracy.

In none of the pictures are the mountains in the background appreciably moving...

Of course the background wouldn't change, since it's a matte painting. They only need to get the foreground correct, and the rest can be done with special effect techniques commonly in use at the time.

No matter what evidence you give these people, they are always going to come up with some crazy reason why it fits the conspiracy.

[Brethern]

Ok, in 1969, NASA faked the landings. 40 years later, people are questioning if it ever happened. Suddenly, there's pictures of the landing sites to prove it. But what is the source of those pictures? Of course! NASA itself. It only figures that NASA would have an interest in maintaining the conspiracy.

Of course the background wouldn't change, since it's a matte painting. They only need to get the foreground correct, and the rest can be done with special effect techniques commonly in use at the time.

No matter what evidence you give these people, they are always going to come up with some crazy reason why it fits the conspiracy.

Most of the time they re word the same arguments ignoring the scientific data.

[peadar1987]

This would require the Soviets being in a conspiracy to lose the space race at the height of the cold war. Without the competition with the Soviets, there would never have been an Apollo program in the first place and thus no reason to have a moon landing, fake or otherwise.

This self-contradiction invalidates the entire conspiracy theory.

Best,

-Slashy

Oh that one's easy, the "moon race" was becoming too expensive for the Soviets, they kept on blowing up rockets, but couldn't back out of the contest without losing face immensely. They arranged with Nixon for the USSR to suffer a dignified defeat in the space race, in exchange for grain to feed the Soviet citizens starving after the droughts and crop failures of 1968.

The conspiracy buffs have a stock answer for every individual argument, and if you call them out on it, will just switch to a different one. "Weight of evidence" has no meaning to them.

[KerikBalm]

One of the best arguments against the Apollo hoax argument: What did the Soviets get for faking it?

This is where you go the Hoagland route.

You see.... we did go to the moon, but the moonlanding was faked.

When we went, we found crystal domes, anti grav technology, aliens, blah blah blah. NASA immediately had to do a coverup.

So then they faked footage of the moon landing, so that it looks like a barren wasteland, and people don't realize that NASA is now collaborating with aliens.

And China, thinking the nasa fakery was real, just faked their moon rover footage too.

See... simple.... we landed on the moon, and the moonlanding we all saw was fake.

[peadar1987]

No, it's not fake, it's real, and shows clear evidence of glass skyscrapers, if you look hard enough. Of course, it's also fake.

[Godot]

Gather a Laser that is strong enough.

Aim it at one of the Reflectors that were left by the moon expeditions.

Catch the returning Laser Beam on its way back in order to measure the exact distance between Moon and Earth.

Ask the doubter how this is possible.

Or, even better ... gather a very very strong Laser

Aim it at the reflector on the moon surface in an angle, so that it hits the doubter on its way back and evaporates him.

At his funeral tell all attendants, that this is what happens to all doubters of the moon landing.

Dance on his grave

[NASAFanboy]

Send them to the moon, have them dig their own graves next to the landing site, and follow with summary execution and improvement of gene pool. Execution through decompression is preferred, although using a recoiless rifle is also accepted.

Before execution, have them write a letter of apology to all the trees that have worked to produce oxygen that they breathed.

Edited December 9, 2014 by NASAFanboy

[DMSP]

Ok then.......

Show them photos from the Lunar Reconnoissance Orbiter of the landing sites.

[bdito]

Why even bother? You can't convince an idiot that they're an idiot. No matter what you tell them or show them they'll never agree with you since they have an explanation for everything. It's not just the moon landings, it's everything from religion to global warming to 911 conspiracies. Just let them be because you're the only one that will get upset about it. One of my favourite sayings is "Never underestimate the stupidity of mankind".

[Tex_NL]

"Don't argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"

[Brethern]

Oh that one's easy, the "moon race" was becoming too expensive for the Soviets, they kept on blowing up rockets, but couldn't back out of the contest without losing face immensely. They arranged with Nixon for the USSR to suffer a dignified defeat in the space race, in exchange for grain to feed the Soviet citizens starving after the droughts and crop failures of 1968.

The conspiracy buffs have a stock answer for every individual argument, and if you call them out on it, will just switch to a different one. "Weight of evidence" has no meaning to them.

If the USSR and the US were capable of that level of cooperation the cold war wouldn't have never happened in the first place.

[Bill Phil]

Ugh.

Same old stupid arguments. I do wish they would come up with something new for once.

If the USSR and the US were capable of that level of cooperation the cold war wouldn't have never happened in the first place.

ASTP? That happened. Bit the Cold War did too. Plus, the US had plans to cooperate with the USSR for a joint moon landing project. But Kennedy was assassinated, and that idea was postponed.

[merendel]

In real life you could try varied logical arguments and whatever proof you can. You might have some success if you know the person well. However I've found many people cling to their dogma's tenaciously and sometimes no amount of logic will convince them different than what they believe. When a person things 2+2=rutabaga and firmly argues the existance of 4 is an unprovable lie theres not much you can do but smile, nod, and take whatever steps needed to contain the damage their lack of sanity may cause.

If on the other hand your dealing with youtube commenters that your trying to convince there is only a few possible solutions. The least destructive one is the liberal application of alcohol with the goal of hopefully blotting out your memory of ever reading that drivel. Actually convincing a youtube troll of anything is clearly impossible and the attempt has driven better men and women than us to insanity. Save yourself now and give up this foolhardy quest.

[Bioman222]

You know a conspiracy proof technique that we should use for the Mars missions so that no one can say it's faked?

1. Have press follow the crew right to the module they board

2. After launch when the crew is on Mars, have them do a live stream on mars with a selfie live-stream cam or something so that you can see there face and mars, and have the astronauts reply to the comments.

3. Have the press watch the crew get out of the landed capsule

How would we be able to fake it?

We wouldn't

[Bill Phil]

People would say that it was staged. The astronauts could've climbed in before filming on the last one, they could be faking it with the first one, and artificial signal delay could mimic them "on Mars".

[RuBisCO]

Look the universe was created 5 minutes ago! Everything was created to make it look like the universe is older but it is not! Everything from the light traveling from the stars to your memorize all if it is fabricated! We live in a false reality created to blind us from the truth, there was a reboot just 5 minutes ago, I can't be the only one to notice! Oh what is that?, you think I'm wrong? Well prove it, come on prove reality is real!

Long story short don't argue with conspiracy kooks.