Biome Maps

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

So, there are good looking (well, passable) raster overlays for each body.

How do we see those in the game!?

You probably enter the tracking Station, press alt+f12 and toggle them on/off in the debug menu

[FITorion]

So, there are good looking (well, passable) raster overlays for each body.

How do we see those in the game!?

How do you want to see them in game? The purpose of this thread is to answer that question.

[Superfluous J]

once again, WTH would you need to do something special to "unlock" something that anyone could see on a map?

A kerbin looks at his planet, sees mountains, plains, seas, etc.. Why would he need to launch a series of satellites to tell him where those are?

Ditto with other orbital bodies...

If it's so obvious, then you don't need to see the biome maps. If it's not obvious to you, then why should it be obvious to your Kerbals? Short answer: You should be able to figure out about 90% of the biomes just by eyeballing the non-biome map of each world. The tough part is knowing the exact boundary between biomes and finding some hidden gems that aren't obvious from a casual glance, which would require some sort of mapping/scanning/exploration.

I'd like to see integration with Fine Print. Add a specific contract per world, "Map Minmus' Biomes" where you have to take a probe with a specific part (they hinted at cameras) and put it in a specific orbit. And then when you do, you get no money or science or rep but you do get a biome map (available via a toggle button or checkbox) in map and tracking station mode.

[Melfice]

A complementing idea to satellites, is to link biome mapping to certain experiments.

For instance, the satellite gives you a rough mapping of where each biomes may be. But it's very, very coarse.

So, you have your general map and launch a mission to the planet. When you perform said experiment in a biome, the map gets updated with the actual biome name and sharp borders.

It makes it a bit more involved than the relatively easy "fire-and-forget" satellite mission, but even without doing the science you'll have a rough idea of biome boundaries. You just don't know which biome it is.

[Trentendegreth]

A complementing idea to satellites, is to link biome mapping to certain experiments.

For instance, the satellite gives you a rough mapping of where each biomes may be. But it's very, very coarse.

So, you have your general map and launch a mission to the planet. When you perform said experiment in a biome, the map gets updated with the actual biome name and sharp borders.

It makes it a bit more involved than the relatively easy "fire-and-forget" satellite mission, but even without doing the science you'll have a rough idea of biome boundaries. You just don't know which biome it is.

i like this idea, makes it more involved, goes with what im pulling for and adds a layer as well.

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

A complementing idea to satellites, is to link biome mapping to certain experiments.

For instance, the satellite gives you a rough mapping of where each biomes may be. But it's very, very coarse.

So, you have your general map and launch a mission to the planet. When you perform said experiment in a biome, the map gets updated with the actual biome name and sharp borders.

It makes it a bit more involved than the relatively easy "fire-and-forget" satellite mission, but even without doing the science you'll have a rough idea of biome boundaries. You just don't know which biome it is.

This is exactly what I am thinking. And the good thing is that Scan-Sat is already covering this need.

It would only need some implementation to make it work Hand in Hand with Fineprint.

[Ignath]

A complementing idea to satellites, is to link biome mapping to certain experiments.

For instance, the satellite gives you a rough mapping of where each biomes may be. But it's very, very coarse.

So, you have your general map and launch a mission to the planet. When you perform said experiment in a biome, the map gets updated with the actual biome name and sharp borders.

It makes it a bit more involved than the relatively easy "fire-and-forget" satellite mission, but even without doing the science you'll have a rough idea of biome boundaries. You just don't know which biome it is.

This is an awesome idea and I think it would add a lot of reason for deeper exploration to the game.

Before biomes were included, 1 landing on any planet/moon outside the Kerbin system was all that was necessary for SCIENCE! Now, with biomes added to all planets/moons, we might as well have a way to fine-tune our knowledge of said biomes and be able to have missions surrounding the unlocking of said biomes/biome maps.

[Sasquatch_Punter]

I love the idea of having to scan with a satellite to uncover parts of the biome maps. Imagine a contract to map the dark side of the Mun?

[BudgetHedgehog]

It would only need some implementation to make it work Hand in Hand with Fineprint.

It was mentioned last week that contracts to visit certain biomes will be included in 0.90. I don't know if they're just like 'go plant a flag on Gillys Midlands' or 'transmit or recover scientific data from Dunas Poles', but yeah... I guess it'll be up to you to find the actual biomes though and that's where SCANsat/the debug menu comes in handy.

[Tw1]

I love the idea of having to scan with a satellite to uncover parts of the biome maps. Imagine a contract to map the dark side of the Mun?

You mean far side? [/nitpick]

[theend3r]

You mean far side? [/nitpick]

No, he meant:

Edited December 13, 2014 by theend3r

[Master Tao]

This thread full of suggestions about KSP development has been moved to Suggestions and Development Discussion.

Carry on.

[CaptRobau]

Mapping satellites. Would make probes more interesting and it would provide a stock reason to put things into polar orbit, which is a skill that's barely used in the game.

[Vaporo]

Yeah, I like the idea of the biome maps.

I don't know about full-on mapping like SCANsat does, but you should certainly should have to send a probe to the planet to get access to the full biome map. Some kind of biome mapping mechanic should be added.

[Sidneyia]

Yes, defenitely biome scanning should be in the game. Because probe cores have no real use at the moment, to have the scanning ability by default would be great. The better the probe core, the more accurate the scanning (I've read a "rough" mapping in this thread, that would be very nice). Moreover, a really expensive (in science points and money) science part could exist and thus provide the chance to scan without a satellite.

[Darnok]

Yeah, they should definitely be in the game. I think mapping satellites would be a good way to discover them.

Agreed, it would make sense to send satellite first, map what you can from orbit and then plan drone rover mission

[Flef]

Yeah, I like the idea of the biome maps.

I don't know about full-on mapping like SCANsat does, but you should certainly should have to send a probe to the planet to get access to the full biome map. Some kind of biome mapping mechanic should be added.

Definitely, SCANSat gets all the job done for the devs.

And to give a better use to probes, I think TAC life support could be integrated too. May be with a tickbox into the options.

[AbhChallenger]

In my opinion there should be a reason to send a probe to "Reveal" but it should be very simple compared to scansat. Limited FoV and there is a Max height it can be at. But no resolution or major power draw stuff.

[Superfluous J]

In my opinion there should be a reason to send a probe to "Reveal" but it should be very simple compared to scansat. Limited FoV and there is a Max height it can be at. But no resolution or major power draw stuff.

I still like my idea of it being a Fine Print contract that is hard coded. "Put a probe very loosely close to this polar orbit here around the planet and unlock the ability to see its biomes in map mode."

[JumpsterG]

Consider that a reasonable gameplay purpose for the biome map is as a visual indicator of biomes that have and have not been visited/scienced by the player.

Perhaps as science is done within biomes, those biomes are made visible in the biome map filter, leaving other, unexplored areas transparent? They could even represent how much science has been extracted by having individual biomes become more opaque and less transparent until all science has been done everywhere, leading to the full biome map overlays we see in the preview video.

This could still give a use for a mapping-type mission if an orbital camera (or other scanner parts) could do science in orbit, either by adding one more experiment to all biomes that can only be done from orbit (similar to low orbit EVA's), or by contributing a small amount of science towards all biomes on a planet from one orbital experiment (maybe requiring a polar orbit to run). A scouting probe in a polar orbit could therefore do basic science over an entire planet, creating the first, faint colors of the biome maps, which could be filled in further by ground missions.

All styles of exploration are rewarded by this type of system. Methodical, probe-first approach can faintly identify all biome boundaries before ground missions are planned OR straight to Kerballed landing approach will fill in just the biome that has been explored, leaving the rest of the planet's biome boundaries a mystery until they have also been landed in.

[Superfluous J]

Consider that a reasonable gameplay purpose for the biome map is as a visual indicator of biomes that have and have not been visited/scienced by the player.

Perhaps as science is done within biomes, those biomes are made visible in the biome map filter, leaving other, unexplored areas transparent? They could even represent how much science has been extracted by having individual biomes become more opaque and less transparent until all science has been done everywhere, leading to the full biome map overlays we see in the preview video.

This could still give a use for a mapping-type mission if an orbital camera (or other scanner parts) could do science in orbit, either by adding one more experiment to all biomes that can only be done from orbit (similar to low orbit EVA's), or by contributing a small amount of science towards all biomes on a planet from one orbital experiment (maybe requiring a polar orbit to run). A scouting probe in a polar orbit could therefore do basic science over an entire planet, creating the first, faint colors of the biome maps, which could be filled in further by ground missions.

All styles of exploration are rewarded by this type of system. Methodical, probe-first approach can faintly identify all biome boundaries before ground missions are planned OR straight to Kerballed landing approach will fill in just the biome that has been explored, leaving the rest of the planet's biome boundaries a mystery until they have also been landed in.

I want.

And as a bonus, it's not time based which Squad has said over and over they won't do (even though cleaning experiments and transmitting data takes time for no reason other than to take time).

[tanuki_chau]

Innnnnteresting. Thanks for the feedback

[RenevB]

My general idea:

I am of the that it would be a bit silly to have the biomes hidden under Alt+F12 only. Now that you can (relatively) easily see the biome map ingame, I think it would be a good idea to make this information available to the player through normal gameplay. By that I mean that it would have to be unlocked in some way.

I still like my idea of it being a Fine Print contract that is hard coded. "Put a probe very loosely close to this polar orbit here around the planet and unlock the ability to see its biomes in map mode."

This idea would work, I like it.

On the other hand, JumpsterG's idea is a good one too.

[ArmchairGravy]

Consider that a reasonable gameplay purpose for the biome map is as a visual indicator of biomes that have and have not been visited/scienced by the player.

Perhaps as science is done within biomes, those biomes are made visible in the biome map filter, leaving other, unexplored areas transparent? They could even represent how much science has been extracted by having individual biomes become more opaque and less transparent until all science has been done everywhere, leading to the full biome map overlays we see in the preview video.

This could still give a use for a mapping-type mission if an orbital camera (or other scanner parts) could do science in orbit, either by adding one more experiment to all biomes that can only be done from orbit (similar to low orbit EVA's), or by contributing a small amount of science towards all biomes on a planet from one orbital experiment (maybe requiring a polar orbit to run). A scouting probe in a polar orbit could therefore do basic science over an entire planet, creating the first, faint colors of the biome maps, which could be filled in further by ground missions.

All styles of exploration are rewarded by this type of system. Methodical, probe-first approach can faintly identify all biome boundaries before ground missions are planned OR straight to Kerballed landing approach will fill in just the biome that has been explored, leaving the rest of the planet's biome boundaries a mystery until they have also been landed in.

Yes, tie it into the Biome experiment list in R&D that already exists, and as more of the list is completed the more saturated the color gets on the map. Your satellite pass would net 1 science, then add on the rest. Excellent idea. +1