[1.0.5] Atomic Age - Nuclear Propulsion - Red Hot Radiators

[Chimer4]

Was having a look through Kerbal Stuff earlier and came across this mod that appears to use your nuclear turbojet engines, however no credit has been given to Porkjet. Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but just thought you might want to know.

[smjjames]

Was having a look through Kerbal Stuff earlier and came across this mod that appears to use your nuclear turbojet engines, however no credit has been given to Porkjet. Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but just thought you might want to know.

Took a quick look at the download and the configs for the lateral ones do mention Porkjet as an author, but you're right, there isn't any credit given in more obvious places.

The person doesn't seem to have a forum account (at least under the name on Kerbalstuff) and I didn't find a thread for it.

[Starwaster]

Took a quick look at the download and the configs for the lateral ones do mention Porkjet as an author, but you're right, there isn't any credit given in more obvious places.

The person doesn't seem to have a forum account (at least under the name on Kerbalstuff) and I didn't find a thread for it.

Keeping his name from the original config files is not any proper accreditation at all and I doubt you'll find it on these forums anytime soon as it would get shut down pretty hard because of license violation.

[Chimer4]

Keeping his name from the original config files is not any proper accreditation at all and I doubt you'll find it on these forums anytime soon as it would get shut down pretty hard because of license violation.

Having another look (trying to find a forum thread) it also looks like assets from D magic orbital science (the telescope I think) are used

[smjjames]

Having another look (trying to find a forum thread) it also looks like assets from D magic orbital science (the telescope I think) are used

I looked and the only similarity is the shape of the camera case, everything else is different.

I also spotted an RCS from Novapunch, which is altered to be powered by some wierd resource called x, seriously 'x'

Edit: The RCS model is actually stock, but the config has the author as NovaSilisko, for some reason.

Edit2: That mod is wierd, most of the 'parts' are just stock parts with renaming and some other changes. The only unique. Editwhiletyping: Wierd, the PSA (Subatomic particles) collector config claims the part is NovaSilisko while AFAIK, the model and texture is unique.

Edit3: I found in the config for the strut part which is authored to jandcando. I thought maybe that was the person (without actually knowing who jandcando is), but they turn out to be a respectable mod author, so, the config is from Jandcando's mod :/

As Starwaster said, the forum thread, if one exists, isn't going to be on this forum as it'd get shut down pretty quick.

Edited September 16, 2015 by smjjames

[Randazzo]

I looked and the only similarity is the shape of the camera case, everything else is different.

I also spotted an RCS from Novapunch, which is altered to be powered by some wierd resource called x, seriously 'x'

Edit: The RCS model is actually stock, but the config has the author as NovaSilisko, for some reason.

Edit2: That mod is wierd, most of the 'parts' are just stock parts with renaming and some other changes. The only unique. Editwhiletyping: Wierd, the PSA (Subatomic particles) collector config claims the part is NovaSilisko while AFAIK, the model and texture is unique.

NovaSilisko used to work for Squad. A lot of the old configs were either written by him or credited to him. If there's a unique part that's got his name on it, the actual author probably just copied the text over and neglected to alter the author name after making his changes.

As for the license violation itself, he can really only be forced to change the license from MIT to CC-NC-BY-SA 4.0. The only guideline is "reasonable" attribution, and if Porkjet is the author in the config file, that could be argued to be reasonable. Don't misunderstand, I'm not advocating stealing someone elses work, just pointing out it's not very enforceable.

With that in mind someone would need to inform Kerbal Stuff, if one was so inclined. I have a sneaking suspicion that Porkjet won't even care all that much. All that said, I also doubt there was ill intent here. Guy probably just doesn't know any better.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Randazzo

[Sandworm]

As for the license violation itself, he can really only be forced to change the license from MIT to CC-NC-BY-SA 4.0. The only guideline is "reasonable" attribution, and if Porkjet is the author in the config file, that could be argued to be reasonable. Don't misunderstand, I'm not advocating stealing someone elses work, just pointing out it's not very enforceable.

All that in mind someone would need to inform Kerbal Stuff, if one was so inclined. I have a sneaking suspicion that Porkjet won't even care all that much.

If there isn't anything enforceable, then it isn't stealing. IP rights belong to the owner (porkjet/nova). It isn't for third parties (us) to enforce them, We may inform the IP holders and occasionally remove material that violate other agreements to which we may be a party (ie Kerbstuff TOS) but whether or not to take action is wholly their prerogative. An IP owner is free to not act against others and even abandon their IP. That too is there prerogative. Silence or lack of action is not grounds for others to attempt enforcement.

[Randazzo]

If there isn't anything enforceable, then it isn't stealing.

I wrote a pretty long response to this, but suffice it to say that you're twisting my words ever so slightly and informing Kerbal Stuff that they are contributing to the distribution of what amounts to illegally licensed content is not attempting enforcement.

Sufficiently less thread-hijacking, I think.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Randazzo

[Sandworm]

I wrote a pretty long response to this, but suffice it to say that you're twisting my words ever so slightly and informing Kerbal Stuff that they are contributing to the distribution of what amounts to illegally licensed content is not attempting enforcement.

Sufficiently less thread-hijacking, I think.

Suffice to say, you just compounded my worry. The legality or illegality of a distribution is a matter for the IP holder and, in some cases, hosting services. This isn't criminal activity. Outsiders (us) are not part of the system. Reporting a possible violation is all well and good, but nobody other than the actual IP owner may submit a DMCA-style takedown request. A third party host (Kerbalstuff) that responds to such requests from people other than the IP owner opens themselves up to problems. Maybe it doesn't matter here as no money seems to be involved, but it's a nasty path. The best route is to inform the IP owner and allow them decide whether or not they want to proceed. For all we outsiders know the IP rights have been sold/licensed off and this new modder is doing nothing wrong. That's the problem with outsiders getting involved.

Lady GaGa had issues with this when she called on her "monsters" to report illegal sharing of her music. They are free to report to her, but those who sent takedown notices to hosts on her behalf committed actual criminal acts.

[Randazzo]

Suffice to say, you just compounded my worry. The legality or illegality of a distribution is a matter for the IP holder and, in some cases, hosting services. This isn't criminal activity. Outsiders (us) are not part of the system. Reporting a possible violation is all well and good, but nobody other than the actual IP owner may submit a DMCA-style takedown request. A third party host (Kerbalstuff) that responds to such requests from people other than the IP owner opens themselves up to problems. Maybe it doesn't matter here as no money seems to be involved, but it's a nasty path. The best route is to inform the IP owner and allow them decide whether or not they want to proceed. For all we outsiders know the IP rights have been sold/licensed off and this new modder is doing nothing wrong. That's the problem with outsiders getting involved.

Lady GaGa had issues with this when she called on her "monsters" to report illegal sharing of her music. They are free to report to her, but those who sent takedown notices to hosts on her behalf committed actual criminal acts.

You're still way out of the ballpark and assuming too much.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Randazzo

[Starwaster]

Guys, this conversation has played itself out and everyone has made plain how they feel, but now it's derailing the thread. We should call it quits.

[totos_totidis]

Well i dont get what all of this fuss is about. Can someone explain?

[Xeiki]

Just a quick question, as i don't fully understand the internal workings of a lightbulb engine:

Would it be possible to run it as a kind of reactor to power a heat engine to create electricity? If the engine is running, it is of course generating heat, but if you are not producing any thrust, would it be possible to run it at low power to generate electricity?

[passinglurker]

Just a quick question, as i don't fully understand the internal workings of a lightbulb engine:

Would it be possible to run it as a kind of reactor to power a heat engine to create electricity? If the engine is running, it is of course generating heat, but if you are not producing any thrust, would it be possible to run it at low power to generate electricity?

Anything is possible with sufficient motivation and knowledge of config file editing!

now if we are talking in the realistic sense what you are referring to is unfortunatly easier said than done. You see with real NTR's cooling is achieved by using your propellant as a coolant minimizing the amount of mass you have to dedicate to heat management because you are just throwing all that unwanted heat out the back. When not thrusting and running the NTR's reactor as a generator instead there is no propellant flow to carry the heat away and that heat has to go somewhere so there needs to be enough radiators to manage the heat of your engines reactor which in turn adds mass to your ship at which point you might find that depending on your distance from the sun and your power requirements you'd be better off using solar panels or rtg's for electricity instead.

That being said kerbal doesn't simulate the propellants cooling effect and makes you install some radiators anyway. >.>

Edited September 18, 2015 by passinglurker

[123nick]

is this compatible with kspi? i have kspI and atomic age, and i see 2 nuclear lightbulb engines, one is the standard default ccg-7 or whatever, and the other one, the closed cycle gas core, has the same stuff, but also the ksp interstellar reactor and thermal nozzle. should there only be one? should the kspi one also not have a standard stock engine module, using only liquidfuel?

[FreeThinker]

is this compatible with kspi? i have kspI and atomic age, and i see 2 nuclear lightbulb engines, one is the standard default ccg-7 or whatever, and the other one, the closed cycle gas core, has the same stuff, but also the ksp interstellar reactor and thermal nozzle. should there only be one? should the kspi one also not have a standard stock engine module, using only liquidfuel?

No, But I'm working on fully integrating Atomic Age into KSPI. As an KSPI user, It will eventually be no longer be needed to install Atomic Age. It will allow everything Atomic age offers but more and better

[Sledge]

Question: how do you calculate a radiator's 'power rating'? I want to compare the performance of the stock radiators to PorkJet's radiators.

[PanzerAce]

So, once you've created a jet that can survive working on Eve, may you consider the Holy Grail of Spaceborne Atomic Propulsion?

* starts making explosion noises *

I just want a Pluto style ram jet system. I tried briefly to get a SSTO working with just the Nuke jets and Liquid fuel nukes, but couldn't do it :/

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/28428-Orion-aka-Ol-Boom-boom

[Svm420]

I just want a Pluto style ram jet system. I tried briefly to get a SSTO working with just the Nuke jets and Liquid fuel nukes, but couldn't do it :/

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/28428-Orion-aka-Ol-Boom-boom

Check out SXT Lack came out with a Project Pluto enigne

[Xeiki]

Anything is possible with sufficient motivation and knowledge of config file editing!

now if we are talking in the realistic sense what you are referring to is unfortunatly easier said than done. [...]

Yep, my question was about the realism side of things. I was imagening a low power mode, about 50 to 200kw, with active cooling for power generation in deep space, but i don't know if the engine even works at such low outputs. In a more meta gamey sense, it's just about part counts. I am building a long range reusable vessel, and read something about magnetic field shielding for radiation protection, which requires about 200kw of power, and i couldn't find a place to put one of the Near Future nuclear reactors.

The config editing is rather straight forward, i just copied a line from the RTG config and increased the output to mimic constant generation, with the generated heat added accordingly. But i am now at 401 parts anyways, unfortunatly.

[eataTREE]

I am building a long range reusable vessel, and read something about magnetic field shielding for radiation protection, which requires about 200kw of power

Don't let me spoil your fun or anything, but this would be insufficient protection on its own. Magnetic fields only deflect charged particles. That's great for deflecting solar flare emissions, but fission reactors also emit neutrons and high energy gamma rays, neither of which care about an electromagnetic field. The most effective protection from those forms of radiation is distance -- having the fission reactor on the other end of a long pole from your crew module. Of course, that takes a non-zero amount of parts to set up.

[NuclearNut]

Don't let me spoil your fun or anything, but this would be insufficient protection on its own. Magnetic fields only deflect charged particles. That's great for deflecting solar flare emissions, but fission reactors also emit neutrons and high energy gamma rays, neither of which care about an electromagnetic field. The most effective protection from those forms of radiation is distance -- having the fission reactor on the other end of a long pole from your crew module. Of course, that takes a non-zero amount of parts to set up.

Or the fuel tanks themselves, that is another good option to shield you. Another cool thing about fuel tanks is that they tend to contain light elements, thus making them good at absorbing neutrons.

[Xeiki]

I intended magnetic shielding indeed just for protection against solar radiation. The crew compartment is at the front, with fuel tanks before the engine. I also imagined that, since a nuclear lightbulb is possible, material science has advanced enough to allow relatively lightweight shadow shields, protecting a cone around the ship. For EVA, the engine has to be shut down. But i think i am derailing the thread too much, maybe a should open up my own.

Thanks again for the awesome mod, it blends in really well with the stock game!

[Apophis]

I think that the light bulb should be in a technology node after the standard NTR because with 1500 ISP it makes LV-N born obsolete

[FreeThinker]

I think that the light bulb should be in a technology node after the standard NTR because with 1500 ISP it makes LV-N born obsolete

Correct, that why I put the KSPI Interstellar Version in the Improved Nuclear Propulsion node. Do note the LATERN does have the ability of LOX mode, which is very useful for launching out of gravity wells

Edited September 28, 2015 by FreeThinker