[1.0.4]Better Buoyancy v1.4 - obsolete as of 1.0.5; 7/29/15

[nablabla]

I made a new clean install in RSS and its like that again, I am not shure, maybe the water is just too shallow. After a while it stabilizes and I can recover but it shouldn't be that way

[TrooperCooper]

I'm playing with RSS + RO and have the same problem as nablabla. Pods landed in the water keep moving arround faster than what is accepted as stationary indefinately.

Tedious workarround: keep spamming escape. Eventually you will catch that millisecond where your pod is slow enough to safely exit to the space center.

[ferram4]

And I cannot reproduce the issue; pods are easily recoverable for me.

Nevertheless, I've tweaked additional ocean drag to instantly reach max value when water is entered, rather than increasing smoothly at the interface. I doubt this will help, but it's the only thing I can think of to try. Dev build has that, maybe it does something for you guys.

[NathanKell]

For the record I don't get that problem...

[mikegarrison]

I do get the ship bobbing around too fast to recover, but usually I realize that I left SAS in some inappropriate mode. If I go into the basic kill rotation mode, the bobbing stops.

I'm using this mod for the first time now. Yesterday I had a deal where a swimming Kerbal knocked herself out and went ragdoll. She sank all the way to the ocean floor before I could get control back. Once I did, she floated all the way back up to the surface. Does that happen in stock, too? I never had it happen to me before.

[uglyduckling81]

For the record I don't get that problem...

I do get the problem. I just switch back to the KSC and go to the tracker screen and recover that way.

[nablabla]

okay, some popes get it others do not.

Maybe it has another cause, as for me I reinstalled everything and got the same problem. But i also reinstalled the same mod alongside with it.

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And I cannot reproduce the issue; pods are easily recoverable for me.

Nevertheless, I've tweaked additional ocean drag to instantly reach max value when water is entered, rather than increasing smoothly at the interface. I doubt this will help, but it's the only thing I can think of to try. Dev build has that, maybe it does something for you guys.

I installed the master version from github and there was no twirling on my first test. Thank you ferram

[Azimech]

Ferram, thank you for another very fine mod. And I still use "The colliders strike back" for some engineering stuff, very important mod for me.

I've noticed drag is a factor of mass in the water, instead of volume. I made a simple part with a huge mass to serve as the spine for very large ships, for war games.

The idea is that the spine would stay intact while buoyant parts would get destroyed, with the result of the ship really sinking in a semi-realistic fashion. But ... at least with the pre-less bouncy- dev version, speed drops to around zero. So I wonder if it's possible to have a drag toggle somewhere. If that means sinking kerbals or bouncy pods, well ... not everyone goes to space all the time :-)

Now I know it's called a Kerbal Space Program, for me it's more of an engineering program. I hope one day buoyancy, displacement and drag can get the same voxel type calculation, until one day Fluid Dynamics comes into the picture.

Anyway, here's an example of what I built yesterday. Length 88m. Mass 808t. Top speed is around 30kph, which isn't bad at all. With stock water, it capsizes and speed drops to almost nothing.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[ThorBeorn]

Great mod by one of the greatest.

Also Azimech, that is just ridiculous!

[sashan]

I'm having a nasty issue, all my female Kerbals would sink when landing into water at speed. Male ones would sing a few meters while in ragdoll mode, then resurface, start swimming. Females just sink all the way into bottom, then I press space, theu push up the seabed, start swimming, slowly resurface.

IMO it has something to do with Kerbal's density, so I guess it is fixable.

EDIT: Apparently females have their special part, called kerbalEVAfemale. Just checked my persistent file.

Edited July 25, 2015 by sashan

[ferram4]

There is no difference in code between male and female Kerbals; I can't find a KerbalEVAFemale module to deal with. Are you using any mods that update Kerbals? Maybe on of those is doing something funky and is replacing the KerbalEVA modules.

[smjjames]

I'm having a nasty issue, all my female Kerbals would sink when landing into water at speed. Male ones would sing a few meters while in ragdoll mode, then resurface, start swimming. Females just sink all the way into bottom, then I press space, theu push up the seabed, start swimming, slowly resurface.

IMO it has something to do with Kerbal's density, so I guess it is fixable.

EDIT: Apparently females have their special part, called kerbalEVAfemale. Just checked my persistent file.

I've noticed this too and it's actually a stock problem, going to test without BB shortly to doublecheck for sure.

- - - Updated - - -

There is no difference in code between male and female Kerbals; I can't find a KerbalEVAFemale module to deal with. Are you using any mods that update Kerbals? Maybe on of those is doing something funky and is replacing the KerbalEVA modules.

There is an EVAmanager.dll from tweakableeverything, but that just allows the EVA propellant thrust to be tweakable. I'm pretty sure it's the only thing. I'll remove that temporarily to be sure.

Edit: I'll also remove stockbugfixes to be sure on that side as well. I don't have anything else that updates Kerbals.

Edit: Nope, not a stock problem.

Edit: Reproduced with just BB, stock, exception detector, FS (don't know why I left that in there for the testing), GCmonitor, Hyperedit (so I could get the platform over on the water), KJR (the platform krakenified itself to death when I put it on the water without KJR ), and hangar extender. Very sure none of those do anything with the Kerbals themselves.

Edited July 26, 2015 by smjjames

[Joseph_Terran]

Having issues with landing in water in RSS. Ships keep bouncing around and make it impossible to retrieve. Better Buoyancy only makes it worse. Lost Jeb twice already :'(

any ideas what may be causing this?

OK, nvm this is purely being caused by RSS

Edited July 27, 2015 by Joseph_Terran

[ferram4]

No idea, especially because I can't cause it myself. Considering that I just found out that all CKAN installs of BB were missing a dependency though, I'd blame that if you installed that way. All the reports seem to match with BB not actually being active at all, which would be the outcome of the errors for that particular CKAN screwup.

[smjjames]

No idea, especially because I can't cause it myself. Considering that I just found out that all CKAN installs of BB were missing a dependency though, I'd blame that if you installed that way. All the reports seem to match with BB not actually being active at all, which would be the outcome of the errors for that particular CKAN screwup.

I downloaded from your github, I don't even use CKAN.

It requires a jump from a bit of a height in order for it to happen, maybe that's why you can't reproduce it?

Edit: Unless that was a response to the post above yours.

[ferram4]

"A bit of a height?" What speed, what altitude, and what part? I'm dropping command pods into the water at 15 m/s and they're perfectly fine, so I don't know what's wrong with you guys.

[smjjames]

"A bit of a height?" What speed, what altitude, and what part? I'm dropping command pods into the water at 15 m/s and they're perfectly fine, so I don't know what's wrong with you guys.

I was referring to the issue with female kerbals sinking, sorry for the confusion.

[mikegarrison]

As I reported a while back, I also have had female kerbals drop to the bottom of the ocean. They will swim around just fine, but if they go ragdoll they simply drop all the way down. As soon as they touch bottom you can unragdoll them, and then they float all the way back up. I had it happen a bunch of times to me when I got a kerbal out to collect a surface sample from the water. For some reason I had a really tough time getting her back into the cockpit, because she would try to climb, hit something, ragdoll, and then go for the long submarine trip. Again and again. This was with BB installed.

[steve_v]

Interesting, I've had this happen to me too... Why would a ragdolled kerbal have a different density to an active one? Very strange.

[smjjames]

Interesting, I've had this happen to me too... Why would a ragdolled kerbal have a different density to an active one? Very strange.

What's even stranger is, why does it only happen to the female kerbals? The males can ragdoll when they hit the water, yet they don't sink like a rock.

I've also tried it with pure stock (well okay, not quite pure stock, but nothing that messes with kerbals) without BB and it doesn't happen there, so.....

[NathanKell]

Female kerbals have a different partname. If you're catching EVA kerbals by partname, you'll miss female kerbals.

[ferram4]

I'm catching them by the KerbalEVA PartModule. I know that it works, because that's the only way that buoyancy could be broken; BB's module is applied, but doesn't work for some reason.

In any case, I found the difference. When male Kerbals ragdollize, they need to have forces applied to the rigid bodies for each of their ragdoll pieces. When female Kerbals ragdollize, they need forces applied to the center rigid body. Why? Hell if I know.

[steve_v]

Aha, that would actually explain some other (non BB related) strangeness I have noticed in the way male vs. female kerbals react to impacts when ragdolled. I guess it's either a stock bug or someone over at Squad has a very strange sense of humour...

[smjjames]

I'm catching them by the KerbalEVA PartModule. I know that it works, because that's the only way that buoyancy could be broken; BB's module is applied, but doesn't work for some reason.

In any case, I found the difference. When male Kerbals ragdollize, they need to have forces applied to the rigid bodies for each of their ragdoll pieces. When female Kerbals ragdollize, they need forces applied to the center rigid body. Why? Hell if I know.

I suppose differences in the way the models were constructed?

Less seriously, lets just say it's because of sexual dimorphism and go with it.

[Lilienthal]

ferram4, what do you think about making a new release? The fixes you did for reducing bouncyness some time ago where were helpful for me (Linux Ksp64/RO/RP-0), and others could also benefit easier this way.