[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[Rime Pendragon]

And RoverDude's Sounding Rockets is a perfect fit with this mod: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/102502-0-90-Sounding-Rockets!-Start-small-Dream-big!-0-1-1-2014-12-24

[Yemo]

I installed this and most of the recommended mods (and a few of my own personal favorites) and I'm getting an odd thing: When I tell Jeb to go EVA on the launch pad, a Kerbal-shaped part appears named "Unknown Mystery Part" that has 5 eva fuel but is otherwise acts like a spawned part. I can't control it. Also, my focus remains on the pod and the little window says "Bailed Out!"

I havent encountered this myself and couldnt find anything useful on the "unkown mystery part", but for the "bailed out!" I remember a glitch video from Scott Manley and I found another video as well as a steam post:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/220200/discussions/0/558752449389791077/

Seems to be a bug in stock KSP which was introduced with the Bailed out feature. The person in the steam thread apparently had to reinstall KSP to fix it.

@rhaak: Yeah, with all the mods, I dont see a reason to add one more part to have KER.

I like the idea of the sounding rockets and I considered adding them. What kept me from doing so was:

1. They would add items which are only really useful in the very beginning with limited gameplay change

2. The current altitude contract bug necessitates a manned vessel at basicRocketry node anyway

3. I liked the idea of non-reusable SRB rockets at the start, I would have to take the sounding rocket nose parachute away for that

So I will rebalance the sounding rockets for SETI at some time, but it is relatively low on my priority list.

Kolonization and Karbonite from Roverdude is the next (and due to exams for some time the last major) update.

New Version 0.5.3

Additions to Universal Storage

• New, earlier Mini Alkaline Fuel Cell. Available at scienceTech, it produces only 1 charge per second, but lasts 16days
  
• Very useful for TAC life support electric requirements and RemoteTech sats/probes
  
• New 400 charge battery in wedge form
  

Minor Changes and Fixes

• Reduced entry costs for Wing Connector Type B and Elevon 1
  
• Science Bay shifted back to spaceExploration (in exchange for new miniFuelCell)
  

Edited January 16, 2015 by Yemo

[Liquid5n0w]

I'm really liking how this mod looks! I will definitely start a new save and play with it, especially if you build sounding rockets support into the beginning of the tech tree!

Does this work well with the KSPI maintenance version? He seems to have done something different with his tech tree.

A couple of mod suggestions:

Filter extensions, makes building things so much easier to find parts.

Science Containers, really works great

Station Science, could definitely use tech tree integration, also has a bunch of little addons

Extraplanetary Launchpads, maybe you can build it into the tree.

Maybe you could stretch out the tiers of the buildings a bit, make getting the last upgrades happen later then the stock game?

[Superfluous J]

I havent encountered this myself and couldnt find anything useful on the "unkown mystery part", but for the "bailed out!" I remember a glitch video from Scott Manley and I found another video as well as a steam post:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/220200/discussions/0/558752449389791077/

Seems to be a bug in stock KSP which was introduced with the Bailed out feature. The person in the steam thread apparently had to reinstall KSP to fix it.

Thanks for looking into it. I also Googled but did not see that steam thread. I'll try another reinstall with just the bare minimum mods, and only add the other mods as I need them.

[Yemo]

@Everyone reading this thread:

Karbonite and MKS/OKS Kolonization inclusion is stalled at the moment.

For MKS/OKS I m waiting for the next release of Multipurpose Colony Modules.

For Karbonite I need Procedural Parts Karbonite tanks. If anyone is willing to do those, that would be a great help.

Or at least please "vote" for them in the Procedural Parts thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/106975

edit: @Liquid5n0w:

I have not tried KSPI with it. FreeThinker is working on a Near Future/KSPI integration.

Also, SETI will support the CommunityTechTree from (the next) version 0.6.0 and there is an unofficial KSPI CTT integration.

About the mod suggestions:

Filter Extensions - I m following the Filter Extensions thread. My main problem so far is, that it trades clutter within the category (when heavily modded) for a clutter of categories (when having less mods). Also, it is heavily WIP at the moment, so I decided to wait until a community supported "ordering" concept emerges from it.

Science Container - I ll have to test them, especially concerning the materials bay and mystery goo. I fear that ScienceContainers is able to collect those, while for balancing they shouldnt be collectable.

Station Science - With Karbonite and MKS/OKS stalled, I will support Station Science in the next version instead, based on your recommendation. A mainly research station is how space stations started in rl anyway, from Salyut/Skylab, to MIR/ISS.

Extraplanetary Launchpads - possibly with MKS/OKS, maybe after those

I wanted to change the building upgrades and limitations, but SQUAD made the strategic decision (bad mistake, imho) to make them non-moddable...

Edited January 17, 2015 by Yemo

[Yemo]

With the support for the Community Tech Tree (at the moment needs extra compatibility file from original post/status section), the combination with popular mods should be much easier, like

• Karbonite/K+
  
• KSPI
  
• MKS/OKS
  
• Near Future
  
• USI Exploration Pack
  

While I plan to support/rebalance those mods for SETI in the future (especially Karbonite/MKS/OKS, see previous post), I will do so based on the Community Tech Tree anyway.

I will also have much less time in the coming weeks, further decreasing the chances of significant changes.

For that reason, 0.6.0 is most likely "finished" enough to start a longer/epic career save with additional mods, based on the community tech tree versatility.

New Version 0.6.0

Part ordering

• Many parts (mainly in the overcrowded Utility and Science tabs) have a new naming scheme
  
• Like 0 in front of Procedural Parts and the existing naming scheme for Universal Storage parts
  

Extended ModSupport

• Community Tech Tree (if used with DMagicOrbitalScience, please use compatibility file from forum thread)
  
• Landertron (requires Bahamuto Dynamics Animated Engines)
  
• Station Science
  

Rebalances and Adjustments

• Batteries lighter again
  
• Station Science modules rebalanced and available later than in original mod
  
• new, early inefficient RemoteTech Dish with 18Gm range (for early probe missions to close planets and the Sun)
  
• Telus-LV Bay shifted to landing tech and cheaper entryCost
  
• DMagic Multispectral Imaging shifted to same tech as SCAN Sat Multispectral Imaging
  
• balanced Universal Storage simple experiments & SensorCone to transmit for 100%
  
• earlier Launch Clamp, now at generalRocketry
  
• earlier Modular Girder Adapter, now at generalConstruction
  
• earlier docking ports and docking Hub, balanced with the Station Science Modules
  
• earlier Inline Advanced Stabilizer (1.25m), now at stability
  

Minor Changes and Fixes

Edited January 18, 2015 by Yemo

[SwGustav]

Just started a clean KSP install for this, really loving it

Probably the most meaningful tech progression I've seen.

Waiting for further mod integration

[Yemo]

Just started a clean KSP install for this, really loving it

Probably the most meaningful tech progression I've seen.

Waiting for further mod integration

@Thank you!

New Versions 0.6.1 - 0.6.3

Major FAR/Procedural Heat Shield issue corrected, might affect active Heat Shields

• Procedural HeatShield Bottom Node shifted down
  
• Corrects low drag value of Heat Shield
  
• Might break already active Heat Shields/Vessels, rescue your crews from those vessels, to be safe!
  
• Decoupler and other parts now leave a visible gap (unfortunal byproduct of the fix)
  

RealChute rebalances

• All nylon chutes predeploy at 3000m and deploy at 700m as default, much less "waiting forever" or early capped chutes
  
• When RealChute is installed, all chutes are now under "Parachutes" category
  

Command Pod rebalances

• Mk1 Command Pod much lighter and has only 60 ablative shielding (DeadlyReentry)
  
• UP25 special Mk1-2 Command Pod Heat Shield lighter due to now 400 ablative shielding
  

Rebalances and Adjustments

• earlier Universal Storage Hydrogen Tank, for mini Alkaline Fuel Cell
  
• Radial Oxygen tank from flightControl to spaceExploration
  
• RoveMate rover body from spaceExploration to landing
  
• naming scheme for Illuminators, Mk1 (the stronger one) shifted back to electrics
  

Extended ModSupport

• now redistributes ModuleManager 2.5.9 for faster loading
  
• supports the two omni lights from B9Aerospace (folder B9_Aerospace\Parts\Utility_Light_N)
  

Minor Changes and Fixes

Edited January 21, 2015 by Yemo

[veryinky]

Is this mod compatible with Ven's Stock Revamp?

Looking forward to Stage 7, Karbonite and Extraplanetary Launchpads are two mods that I find very useful.

[IntoSpaceAgain]

• When RealChute is installed, all chutes are now under "Parachutes" category
  

First of all, Yemo, this is brilliant rebalancing and makes for a much more interesting progression than stock.

However, with 0.6.3 I'm not seeing the Parachutes category with RealChute installed. I can still access the parachutes through tech level and manufacturers sorting, but the category doesn't show on the main gui. I don't appear to have any errors in the log so I'm not entirely sure why it's not showing for me. I've got most of the mods that you've rebalanced and all seem to be working fine apart from this one minor issue.

Keep up the good work. :-)

Edited January 21, 2015 by IntoSpaceAgain

[Yemo]

Is this mod compatible with Ven's Stock Revamp?

Looking forward to Stage 7, Karbonite and Extraplanetary Launchpads are two mods that I find very useful.

I dont know, If you try, please tell me about the results!

First of all, Yemo, this is brilliant rebalancing and makes for a much more interesting progression than stock.

However, with 0.6.3 I'm not seeing the Parachutes category with RealChute installed. I can still access the parachutes through tech level and manufacturers sorting, but the category doesn't show on the main gui. I don't appear to have any errors in the log and the category shows if I remove SETI, so I'm not entirely sure why it's not showing for me. I've got most of the mods that you've rebalanced and all seem to be working fine apart from this one minor issue.

Keep up the good work. :-)

Hey, since I do not experience this issue, I would need some more info:

Did the category vanish with 0.6.3 after upgrading from 0.6.2?

If you just started with 0.6.3, please try 0.6.2 from kerbalstuff, downloadable from "changelog".

If none of that fits, please tell me your mod list with mod versions, or just upload the game data folder somewhere (without the "ActiveTextureManagement", "NASAmission" and "Squad" folders).

[Astrofox]

I have to ask such a question, but are the stock parts included over time? After all, I am a bit curious.

Thanks

Astrofox

[lethe]

I'm having a lot of fun with this mod. The career mode is now harder, but so much more satisfying. Tech progression feels more sensible and I'm no longer drowning in science points. Reduced part clutter makes it easier to find what i need.

Great work Yemo! I can't imagine going back to stock

[Yemo]

I have to ask such a question, but are the stock parts included over time? After all, I am a bit curious.

Thanks

Astrofox

The mod uses most of the stock parts, only the ones which can be easily replaced by procedural parts are "removed" from the normal tech tree (and some parts that I have not balanced yet, like the fantastic thrust vectoring jet engines from BahamutoDynamics).

For the moment they are all shifted towards the tech node "experimental motors" (so do not reseach that, if you do not want the clutter parts).

If you want some of them back, just make a new career, use the debug menu to get masses of science and take a look at the experimental motors node.

The config files sorting those parts out are in the folder MM-TechTree and ordered by mod, with the suffix "-unused".

@lethe: Thank you! Depending on the state of the required mods, I hope to be able to complete another update within the next days.

[JWS]

This is a great mod.Really interesting and challenging. I'm using this mod with variety of other mods but haven't experienced any error yet. Thanks Yemo!

But while doing satellite launch contracts, it seems like the fuel cell is not counted as proper "power" for the satellite. First I thought it was some kind of inter-mod collisions, but as soon as I unlocked the solar panels and attached it to the same ones

instead of those fuel cells, the problem was solved.

Is there any way to make those fuel cells to be recognized as proper power supply for satellites?

[PeterPan]

I played with this mod and the others you suggested some hours and had a lot of fun. It's quite challenging, but your rocket and plane examples helped a lot. Very neat designed! Now trying to figure out how remote tech works. I didn't experience any problems so far. Thanks a lot for your work.

If I think about it - i don't like TAC life support, its too complicated for my taste. IFI Life support works good and is very easy to use. Maybe you could add support for it?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92011-Release-V2-3-90-0-Interstellar-Flight-Inc-Kerbal-Life-Support-Mod

Edited January 24, 2015 by PeterPan

[Yemo]

@JWS: Thank you!

I looked at the fuel cell problem but was not able to find a readily implementable solution.

Thus I shifted the basic solar panels back to electrics in 0.6.4.

@PeterPan: Thanks!

I use the TAC life support mainly for three reasons:

1. There are procedural tanks for TAC ls readily available.

2. It works well with the other mods I currently support (Universal Storage) and those I plan to support in the near future (like OKS/MKS).

3. TAC imho finds a good balance between complexity and ease of use (when used with procedural parts).

Afaik, IFI life support lacks the first two, though I do not see a reason why it should not work already, if you prefer it.

About TAC being complicated, I think it looks complicated at first.

To meet life support requirements, you essentially only need one procedural life support container and adjust its size (this covers food, water and oxygen in the right relative amounts) depending on mission (the duration of the supply can easily be seen in the TAC helper window in the VAB) and then make sure you have enough electricity.

And electricity can be provided by solar or fuel cells. One kerbal needs about 0.037 energy per second (thus 2.22 per minute or 800 per day).

New Version 0.6.4

New Dependency: Contract Configurator

• Soft dependency for now, will be hard dependency for next major version
  
• Testing replacements of buggy and annoying stock starting contracts
  
• Taking a look at other contract packs is recommended (eg. SCANsat, RemoteTech)
  

Updated Rocket and Orbiter craft files for new contracts

Rebalances and Adjustments

• Procedural Parts and Fairings max temperatures adjusted for DeadlyReentry
  
• Solar Panels again available at electrics, due to power source bug in satellite contracts (not SETI/ContractConfigurator related)
  
• OKTO2 and QBE probe cores now have the comfort SAS functions of OKTO and Stayputnik (long term usability traded for short term progression feeling)
  
• RealChute Radial Chute now appropriate max drag and KAS compatible, normal radial chute now uses 10 KAS Storage
  
• Adjustments for next SCANsat version
  

Minor Changes and Fixes

Edited January 24, 2015 by Yemo

[PeterPan]

Thanks for your response. I give TAC life support a try

[The amazing Catstronaut!]

Heya - first post here, long time Kerbaler, long time lurker.

Excellent mod here first of all; best balance mod I've ever tried. Wonderful use of procedural parts instead of the stock tanks: I've always been a fan of ProParts and I use them on all of my modded installs.

Smallish (perhaps slightly brusque query - I realise you're working hard on phase 7): What's the ETA on Phase 8? I'm somebody who uses NovaPunch2 quite a lot due to the wonderful range of engines that the pack provides.

And absolute kudos for having included remote tech and for attempting Karbonite in your compats - you have a wonderful choice in mods.

Thanks again. ;3

[Yemo]

@PeterPan: You are welcome!

@The amazing Catstronaut!: Thank you!

Due to my rl contraints for the next weeks and squads (imho rushed/stupid/premature) decision to publish the next version as 1.0 with the announced/expected rebalances/lack of modding support, I will most likely call Phase 7 the release version of SETI.

----------------------------------

edit: I can add new stuff in a release version as a mod author (and even that feels wrong),

but adding something like aerodynamics in a release version of a game that has been in alpha for years makes no sense at all.

And not making the building upgrades moddable the version before release for a game that depends so much on mods makes no sense.

And then instead of balancing stuff in beta (thus before release), hunting bugs and making eg the buildings moddable, squad adds massive new features for launch???

W T F, this looks like something EA would do, a recipe for disaster for no reason at all...

----------------------------------

After the "warnings" of SETI have been dealt with (altitude contracts, special compatibility file and so on), phase 7 now only depends on external factors.

First the release of a procedural karbonite tank by the procedural parts team and second the next release of the multipurpose colony modules by angel125.

Phase 8 is very uncertain, both in terms of time and content (the listed mods are under phase 8+).

But because I use the CTT anyway (which contains all the nodes from the stock tech tree), all mods for the stock tree should work in general.

Some parts may be available at the wrong time or with some unbalanced properties, but that should only be a minor issue.

For example I use the USI Survivability Pack by RoverDude, although I did not have the time so far to fully balance it and thus "support" it officially.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Yemo

[Olympic1]

A list of unused parts is in the second post, delete/move them at your own risk (incomplete list).

All unused parts are @tech node "experimental motors", so do not research this tech node!

You can disable unused parts by using the following config:

// The Scope, Economy & Tech Integration - Balance Mod (SETI)
//
// This config disables the following parts from loading:

// Disable stackable batteries
!PART[batteryBankMini] {}
!PART[batteryBank] {}
!PART[batteryBankLarge] {}

// Disable SRB's except Sepratron I
!PART[solidBooster] {}
!PART[solidBooster1-1] {}

// Disable fuel tanks except the adapters
!PART[fuelTank3-2] {}
!PART[miniFuelTank] {}
!PART[fuelTankSmallFlat] {}
!PART[fuelTankSmall] {}
!PART[fuelTank] {}
!PART[fuelTank_long] {}
!PART[toroidalFuelTank] {}
!PART[fuelTank4-2] {}
!PART[fuelTank2-2] {}
!PART[fuelTank1-2] {}
!PART[RCSTank1-2] {}
!PART[rcsTankMini] {}
!PART[RCSFuelTank] {}
!PART[radialRCSTank] {}
!PART[rcsTankRadialLong] {}
!PART[xenonTank] {}
!PART[xenonTankRadial] {}

// Disable stackable decouplers
!PART[stackSeparatorMini] {}
!PART[stackSeparator] {}
!PART[stackSeparatorBig] {}
!PART[decoupler1-2] {}
!PART[stackDecouplerMini] {}
!PART[stackDecoupler] {}

This disables all your listed Squad parts.

I'll do the TAC LS ones later

Edited January 26, 2015 by Olympic1

[Olympic1]

Here is also a config to disable TAC LS Containers and HexCans from loading.

// The Scope, Economy & Tech Integration - Balance Mod (SETI)
//
// This config disables the following parts from loading:

// Disable TAC-LS Containers
!PART[TacFoodContainerSmall] {}
!PART[TacFoodContainer] {}
!PART[TacFoodContainerLarge] {}
!PART[TacLifeSupportContainerSmall] {}
!PART[TacLifeSupportContainer] {}
!PART[TacLifeSupportContainerLarge] {}
!PART[TacOxygenContainerSmall] {}
!PART[TacOxygenContainer] {}
!PART[TacOxygenContainerLarge] {}
!PART[TacWasteContainerSmall] {}
!PART[TacWasteContainer] {}
!PART[TacWasteContainerLarge] {}
!PART[TacWaterContainerSmall] {}
!PART[TacWaterContainer] {}
!PART[TacWaterContainerLarge] {}

// Disable TAC-LS HexCans
!PART[HexCanOxygenSmall] {}
!PART[HexCanOxygen] {}
!PART[HexCanOxygenLarge] {}
!PART[HexCanDrinkingWaterSmall] {}
!PART[HexCanDrinkingWater] {}
!PART[HexCanDrinkingWaterLarge] {}
!PART[HexCanFoodSmall] {}
!PART[HexCanFood] {}
!PART[HexCanFoodLarge] {}
!PART[HexCanLifeSupportSmall] {}
!PART[HexCanLifeSupport] {}
!PART[HexCanLifeSupportLarge] {}
!PART[HexCanLifeSupportWasteSmall] {}
!PART[HexCanLifeSupportWaste] {}
!PART[HexCanLifeSupportWasteLarge] {}

// Disable Containers when MFT/RF is installed
!PART[TacLifeSupportMFTContainerSmall] {}
!PART[TacLifeSupportMFTContainer] {}
!PART[TacLifeSupportMFTContainerLarge] {}

// Disable HexCans when MFT/RF is installed
!PART[HexCanMFTLifeSupportLarge] {}
!PART[HexCanMFTLifeSupport] {}
!PART[HexCanMFTLifeSupportSmall] {}

[Yemo]

@Olympic1:

That is a great help! May I include those codes into the next SETI version (of course full credits given)?

[Olympic1]

@Olympic1:

That is a great help! May I include those codes into the next SETI version (of course full credits given)?

Of course you may implement them.

Because of the configs you will not have to delete any files from you KSP folder, instead they will not load the parts.

[Yemo]

I added Active Struts and RemoteTech XF to the phase 4 supported mods.

There were no changes to threm, I just checked if they worked.

They kind of fit there, because Active Struts is often used as struts with KAS function and RemoteTech XF is an addon to RemoteTech.

Since there is no visible movement at the procedural karbonite tank and multipurpose OKS front, I consider releasing SETI as 0.7 without them.

The release forum has much higher visibility, thus more potential SETI users, thus more bug reports/suggestions/feedback.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Yemo