[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[FreeThinker]

Version 0.8.11 for Kerbal Space Program 0.90

Released on 2015-04-07

• Fixes Fusion Power Requirements for NFT-E / SETI
  
• Increased MegaWatt storage to at least 5% of overall power reactor output
  

[Yemo]

Version 0.8.11 for Kerbal Space Program 0.90

Released on 2015-04-07

• Fixes Fusion Power Requirements for NFT-E / SETI
  
• Increased MegaWatt storage to at least 5% of overall power reactor output
  

Great!

REMOVED ProceduralParts Dependencies!

The new SETI version drops the procedural parts dependencies, thus lowering the problem with the TweakScale/ProceduralParts bug, which is one of the main problems for SETI-KSPIextended.

It also makes SETI more viable for existing games.

If procedural parts are installed, nothing will change.

But if they are not installed, the normal fueltanks/adapters/wings can be used.

If you want to use both, just delete the "SETI/MM-UnusedParts-B9ProceduralParts" and "SETI/MM-UnusedParts-ProceduralParts" folders/configs.

New Version 0.8.8

IMPORTANT: AutoPruner file

• If you are missing parts, you might have missed an Autopruner update, reintroducing decouplers and separators
  
• So with all the 0.8.x changes, please make sure to unprune everything, before repruning again with the recent SETI.prnl
  
• For unpruning, use the SETI.prnl from 0.8.5, available from kerbalstuff changelog
  

IMPORTANT: Removed Procedural Parts Dependency

• If ProceduralParts are installed, fuel tanks and adapter are hidden like before and can be pruned
  
• If B9 Procedural Parts are installed, wing parts are hidden like before and can be pruned
  
• If procedural parts are not installed, the normal fuel tank/adapter/wing clutter is not hidden
  
• If you want to use procedural parts and the normal clutter, please remove the subfolders of SETI/MM-UnusedParts
  
• The normal fuel tanks/adapters/wings are only roughly balanced for SETI, but they are moved around a bit
  
• This should allow easier SETI integration of existing games, especially regarding KSPI extended games
  
• It also allows avoiding the ProceduralParts/TweakScale bug, resulting in functional KSPI extended compatibility
  

IMPORTANT: Monoprop and general fuel tank rebalance

• Procedural RCS tank discountinued, new tank type option for procedural liquid tank and liquid tank cone
  
• The old Procedural RCS tank is only hidden, so that your current vessels will still work
  
• All (hopefully) Monoprop tanks now have the same dry mass as liquid tanks
  
• Monoprop tank capacity is 1.2 times the dry mass (procedural RCS tank now has about half the mass and capacity)
  
• Liquid fuel, mixed tanks and karbonite tank capacity is about 1.6 times the dry mass (like current procedural tanks)
  
• Aircraft and Shuttle tanks rebalanced with this formula, they were all over the place until now
  
• Many non-procedural tanks rebalanced with this formula (not sure if I got all of them)
  

Extended Mod Support, updated AutoPruner file

• GingerCorp Stock-alike Station Hubs
  
• Habitat Pack, requires Layered Animations
  
• KipEng Universal Docking Ports, requires AdaptiveDockingNode
  
• KipEng Low Profile Structural Hub Set
  
• Mk3 Mini Expansion Pack
  
• Mark IV Spaceplane System
  
• (Semi-)Saturatable Reaction Wheels
  
• USI Exploration Pack
  

Science Experiments

• Probe Core Telemetry Experiment by Lord Aurelius
  
• Extended Barometer usability by Lord Aurelius
  

Rebalances & Adjustments

• New 1.875m diameter step for procedural parts @advRocketry
  
• Rebalanced KAX electric prop
  
• LT-5 Micro Landing Leg earlier @survivability
  
• Most Girders earlier @generalConstruction, rebalanced Girders (Impact Tolerance!)
  
• Some Docking Port renaming and some of them earlier (eg Inline)
  
• Mk1-2 command pod lighter, 3.2 tons dry instead of 3.3 tons
  
• Mk3 Cockpit 4.1 tons instead of 3.8, reaction wheel 12torque instead of 6, 120 monoprop instead of 40
  
• Mk3 Mini Expansion Pack cockpit takes the role of the stock Mk3 cockpit @3.8 tons
  
• Rebalanced KAX Jump Jet Engine
  

Minor Changes and Fixes

• Fixed Rockomax Brand Decoupler if VenStockRevamp is not installed
  

Edited April 7, 2015 by Yemo

[Smegghed]

So with the new update, if we want to go with KSPI and such, you recommend not runnning with procedural parts? Should we leave out both procedural parts and the B9 Procedural parts as well? Also, doing so is probably REALLY going to scratch the RAM ceiling, won't it? OpenGL mode, here we come!

[Yemo]

So with the new update, if we want to go with KSPI and such, you recommend not runnning with procedural parts? Should we leave out both procedural parts and the B9 Procedural parts as well? Also, doing so is probably REALLY going to scratch the RAM ceiling, won't it? OpenGL mode, here we come!

There is an issue with procedural parts and tweakscale, but it is not limited to KSPI extended, though KSPI extended makes excessive use of tweakscale, so the problem is more relevant.

Basically if you tweakscale a part with an offset top node (see part configs), then attach it to a procedural part and save&load, it will either clip (if you upscaled the part) or leave a gap (if you downscaled the part).

You can try it out with the 1x1.25m to 4x1.25m adapter, which has an offest top node. On the other hand the 1x2.5m to 4x1.25m adapter does not have an offset top node an is thus not affected.

To circumvent this problem, you could put a non affected or non-tweakscaled part in between the procedural part and the affected tweakscaled part, something acting like a washer. Eg a non-tweakscaled decoupler/separator or so.

B9ProceduralParts are totally independent of this problem, it only happens with ProceduralParts itself.

[Smegghed]

Excellent info, thank you!

I'm not as worried about the clutter from not using Procedural parts, as I am the great cleanup that the B9 procedural parts give.

Can't wait to get started with this later. Thanks for the update!

[Lord Aurelius]

If this is how big point updates are now, I can't wait to see all that .9 will entail.

Really liking all the new additions, I'll continue using procedural parts but I'm glad to see that all the stock parts are now supported. Nice to see that my science experiments made it in there, I'll try to round up some additional descriptions that you can integrate into the next version of SETI.

What is the current status of KIS? Have the issues that you warned about earlier been fixed?

As a side note, can I ask anyone who is interested to help with crowdsourcing some additional science reports for the new experiments? The telemetry one especially only has one default response right now. I would recommend posting them in the stock science tweaks thread in my signature to give it some more activity and hopefully get some more attention to draw even more crowdsourced science reports.

[Svm420]

@Lord Aurelius

KIS is working as intended. As far as I can tell at least. You can always double check github. I love KIS so much I didn't think I'd like it more than KAS but I do. Als really like the changes looking forward to full KSPI Ext integration. Just download and am about to install it in my on going career. Hopefully something will be done for the procedural parts issue impossible to go back to a million different tanks now.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Svm420

[Yemo]

If this is how big point updates are now, I can't wait to see all that .9 will entail.

Really liking all the new additions, I'll continue using procedural parts but I'm glad to see that all the stock parts are now supported. Nice to see that my science experiments made it in there, I'll try to round up some additional descriptions that you can integrate into the next version of SETI.

What is the current status of KIS? Have the issues that you warned about earlier been fixed?

As a side note, can I ask anyone who is interested to help with crowdsourcing some additional science reports for the new experiments? The telemetry one especially only has one default response right now. I would recommend posting them in the stock science tweaks thread in my signature to give it some more activity and hopefully get some more attention to draw even more crowdsourced science reports.

Well, the 0.8.8 update was not planned, it is mostly what 0.9.0 should have been. I needed an in-between version number to change the CKAN dependencies and I wanted to have 0.9.0 with as few bugs as possible, so thats why I effectively split 0.9.0.

So 0.9.0 will contain rather minor stuff and a few bug fixes. For example the HERP pod has much too little mass and, together with the AES pod, uses too little EC for the lights.

I will also remove the entry costs of most fuel tanks, to bring them in line with procedural parts.

Thank you again for the experiments!

About the science logs, maybe the crowd sourced science logs thread helps: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/102373

@Lord Aurelius

KIS is working as intended. As far as I can tell at least. You can always double check github. I love KIS so much I didn't think I'd like it more than KAS but I do. Als really like the changes looking forward to full KSPI Ext integration. Just download and am about to install it in my on going career. Hopefully something will be done for the procedural parts issue impossible to go back to a million different tanks now.

The KIS bug was corrected with a hotfix, but of course not all mods migrated to it, like MKS/OKS did not.

But I ll list it as supported from 0.9.0 on.

I did not have much luck in my search for an adequate washer, so I ll possibly just support KSPI extended without it. Since this bug is not restricted to KSPI extended anyways.

[Chonner]

Congrats on the new version! Thanks for all your work!

Just incase anyone was wondering why they aren't getting it, it hasn't pushed to CKAN yet for some reason (usually it is pretty quick, a few hours after KerbalStuff), but they mentioned over in the CKAN thread that the Netkan Bot might be AWOL/a bit slow at the moment at indexing Kerbalstuff as they are changing the backend, but hopefully it will appear through it soon though.

Science Experiments

• Probe Core Telemetry Experiment by Lord Aurelius
  
• Extended Barometer usability by Lord Aurelius
  

Are these incorporated into SETI with the update, or just compatible and need "installing" themselves?

Edited April 8, 2015 by Chonner

[Lord Aurelius]

@Chonner

They're incorporated into SETI, you don't need to install anything else.

[Yemo]

Congrats on the new version! Thanks for all your work!

Just incase anyone was wondering why they aren't getting it, it hasn't pushed to CKAN yet for some reason (usually it is pretty quick, a few hours after KerbalStuff), but they mentioned over in the CKAN thread that the Netkan Bot might be AWOL/a bit slow at the moment at indexing Kerbalstuff as they are changing the backend, but hopefully it will appear through it soon though.

Are these incorporated into SETI with the update, or just compatible and need "installing" themselves?

Ah, that might be the reason why the SETI greenhouse pull request was marked with a green check, but is not yet in the list.

Also I did something wrong with the pull request regarding the dependency changes. So I just resubmitted the pull request, but of course it might take a while.

@Chonner

They're incorporated into SETI, you don't need to install anything else.

Yep, Freethinkers biome change was already included and I added those experiments in the SETI-settings.cfg.

I did not yet include the other experiment suggested in your thread by Freethinker, since I want to find a better place than the Hitchhiker, but I m too busy at the moment with all the fuel tank, KSPI extended and part mod support.

I thought about the Interstellar science lab or the big lab from station science, maybe one of the inflatables from the HabitatPack, or MKS/OKS/MCM?

Generally I tend towards big "empty" habitation modules rather than dedicated science labs which are already used for other stuff.

But I m open to suggestions!

[Lord Aurelius]

I just found out about Science Revisited Revisited, it implements an experiment very similar to the code FreeThinker gave and supports several of the mods you mentioned as well, it might give some ideas on the best way to integrate that into SETI. It also has several other modules that might be useful in expanding the stock science for core SETI.

Also, I've seen several mods that implement surface sampling for probes, is one of those mods currently on the list to be integrated, or should I go ahead and make a simple config to add it to an appropriate stock part?

[SwGustav]

@Lord Aurelius

IR rework utility has a surface sampler

[Lord Aurelius]

@SwGustav

Thanks, now that you mention it I do remember seeing that. I'll check my install and make sure I didn't miss any of those IR packs.

I'm still considering adding the surface sample experiment to a stock part as part of my science tweaks (for those who want a minimalist install), I'm not sure yet which stock parts would be most appropriate, any feedback is appreciated.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Lord Aurelius

[SwGustav]

Back before I started installing mods, I used communotron 16 to imitate surface drill. Maybe use that?

So I have an idea of something called procedural service module. Four options so far:

1) An option for proc fuel tank, includes life support, monoprop, battery (you'll still need another fuel tank for LFO)

2) An option for proc fuel tank, includes 75% of LFO + 25% worth of life support, monoprop and battery (also maybe an additional version with LF only for planes)

3) Both of above

4) A new part (Procedural Service Module) with life support, monoprop, battery and a fuel cell

Such part/option would reduce a number of parts on craft, better textures (no different textures on each "piece" of procedurals stack), easier mission planning and assembly (eg just attach this to your ship, scale and there you go). Of course it's kinda limited once you go interplanetary, but it's expandable with whatever element (probably life support) you gonna need with their own procedural part. Great for Mk1 spaceplanes, landers, Kerbin system vessels (missions to both moons)

[Yemo]

I just found out about Science Revisited Revisited, it implements an experiment very similar to the code FreeThinker gave and supports several of the mods you mentioned as well, it might give some ideas on the best way to integrate that into SETI. It also has several other modules that might be useful in expanding the stock science for core SETI.

Also, I've seen several mods that implement surface sampling for probes, is one of those mods currently on the list to be integrated, or should I go ahead and make a simple config to add it to an appropriate stock part?

It does look very much like the stuff already in SETI, I will take a closer look, but only after KSPIextended.

@Lord Aurelius

IR rework utility has a surface sampler

Yep, that is a great pack, lots of useful stuff.

I hope they catch up on the documentation.

@SwGustav

Thanks, now that you mention it I do remember seeing that. I'll check my install and make sure I didn't miss any of those IR packs.

I'm still considering adding the surface sample experiment to a stock part as part of my science tweaks (for those who want a minimalist install), I'm not sure yet which stock parts would be most appropriate, any feedback is appreciated.

Back before I started installing mods, I used communotron 16 to imitate surface drill. Maybe use that?

So I have an idea of something called procedural service module. Four options so far:

1) An option for proc fuel tank, includes life support, monoprop, battery (you'll still need another fuel tank for LFO)

2) An option for proc fuel tank, includes 75% of LFO + 25% worth of life support, monoprop and battery (also maybe an additional version with LF only for planes)

3) Both of above

4) A new part (Procedural Service Module) with life support, monoprop, battery and a fuel cell

Such part/option would reduce a number of parts on craft, better textures (no different textures on each "piece" of procedurals stack), easier mission planning and assembly (eg just attach this to your ship, scale and there you go). Of course it's kinda limited once you go interplanetary, but it's expandable with whatever element (probably life support) you gonna need with their own procedural part. Great for Mk1 spaceplanes, landers, Kerbin system vessels (missions to both moons)

The extendability of the antenna seems like a good fit.

I m not sure how such a one piece service module could be reasonably balanced in terms of relative masses/amount of content. For example with RLA, you can build landers with monoprop alone, no need for LFO. And propulsion in general is hard to balance against life support, since command pods have enough for Mun missions/landings already.

With ksp 1.0, RoverDude will introduce his new lightweight life support system as well, further increasing the balancing problems of such a module.

So I ll probably just wait for 1.0 and take it from there. On a related note, a Procedural KAS Life Support would be handy, like the Procedural KAS Tank, and pretty easy to implement.

[Lord Aurelius]

I'll go ahead and look into setting up the antenna as a makeshift drill and incorporate it into my pack. Probably with a rescale and increased weight to reflect the internal sample bay required.

Another random thought for SETI: to make the Probodyne RoveMate more useful, what do you think of the idea of making it into a probe core and possibly adding some more attachment points (like what was done in the better rovemates mod)?

[Smegghed]

How are the other Contract Pack expansions as far as balancing goes, besides the Initial, SCANSat, and RemoteTech packs? I'm thinking in particular the Kerbin Space Station pack.

Seems I remember reading somewhere that some or most of the other contact packs aren't or weren't balanced in line with this pack.

[SwGustav]

With this version, maxmods game has insane instability. I can barely play, crashes are so constant

Edit: Eh, I really don't wanna remove mods. So the only thing left to do is lower graphics.

Edited April 9, 2015 by SwGustav

[Yemo]

I'll go ahead and look into setting up the antenna as a makeshift drill and incorporate it into my pack. Probably with a rescale and increased weight to reflect the internal sample bay required.

Another random thought for SETI: to make the Probodyne RoveMate more useful, what do you think of the idea of making it into a probe core and possibly adding some more attachment points (like what was done in the better rovemates mod)?

Cool!

I wanted to do something about the rovers anyway. Looking at adding Dr. Jets ChopShop to the mod list. It has many "hidden" gems, like an inline skycrane, 2axis solar panels, mk2 adapters, lander tanks and so on. Also roverbodies and even a matching flat solar panel to put on top.

Will work on the rover bodies when doing that.

How are the other Contract Pack expansions as far as balancing goes, besides the Initial, SCANSat, and RemoteTech packs? I'm thinking in particular the Kerbin Space Station pack.

Seems I remember reading somewhere that some or most of the other contact packs aren't or weren't balanced in line with this pack.

Well, I do not recommend adding more progression contracts, since SETI adds some without removing the stock ones (except for the first ones). Other than that, I do not know. Personally I tried the anomaly survey (which is fantastic) and would add any mod specific contract pack. The tourism one looks interesting too, but I did not have the time to test contracts for quite some time.

With this version, maxmods game has insane instability. I can barely play, crashes are so constant

Edit: Eh, I really don't wanna remove mods. So the only thing left to do is lower graphics.

Hm, DDS loader could help. And of course there is linux...

[Lord Aurelius]

Another thing I forgot to mention earlier: I updated my Hybrid Rocket Booster mod so it now has a unique texture (it's a part-welded RT-10 and 1.25m RCS tank with red instead of yellow stripes) and now that you've removed procedural parts as a requirement, it might be worth including for players who don't want procedural parts but still want the hybrid booster.

[Lord Aurelius]

I've updated my Stock Science Tweaks mod to implement the Communotron 16 as a surface sample drill. The animation works, but it stays out once you've taken a sample and won't retract unless you transmit/discard it (same behavior as other stock science parts). If that's too annoying, I can disable the animation so you would extend and retract the antenna manually from the right-click menu (or with action groups), but the experiment wouldn't actually check to see if it was extended or not.

[Yemo]

Another thing I forgot to mention earlier: I updated my Hybrid Rocket Booster mod so it now has a unique texture (it's a part-welded RT-10 and 1.25m RCS tank with red instead of yellow stripes) and now that you've removed procedural parts as a requirement, it might be worth including for players who don't want procedural parts but still want the hybrid booster.

That is a great idea. While working on KSPI extended, I also noticed that it has something called a aluminium/oxydizer hybrid booster.

I ll definately take a look, but I have simply not had time yet to rebalance all the boosters. Even the stock ones are out of line compared to the procedural ones, I m not sure I want to open that can of worms for the next update.

I've updated my Stock Science Tweaks mod to implement the Communotron 16 as a surface sample drill. The animation works, but it stays out once you've taken a sample and won't retract unless you transmit/discard it (same behavior as other stock science parts). If that's too annoying, I can disable the animation so you would extend and retract the antenna manually from the right-click menu (or with action groups), but the experiment wouldn't actually check to see if it was extended or not.

Great, will take a look as well. Did you change the rescaleFactor of the communotron model? Maybe making it larger than the original antenna might make it distinguishable and more in line with an actual drill.

[Lord Aurelius]

@Yemo

That KSPI hybrid booster was the original source for my idea. The reason I didn't just go with that and made my mod is that the booster depends on specialty resources added by KSPI and is really designed as a specialty rocket for Mun missions since the ISRU refinery can harvest aluminum and oxidizer from the Mun's surface. Last time I saw it, it just used a 2.5m rescaled RT-10 model and was a little big for a booster.

For the new surface sample drill, I thought about doing it but forgot to actually implement it. I was also trying to rotate the icon in the parts list so it points down instead of up, and I was thinking about retexturing the model the same way I did with the hybrid booster. Should I do a black and yellow hazard style texture?

With this version, maxmods game has insane instability. I can barely play, crashes are so constant

Edit: Eh, I really don't wanna remove mods. So the only thing left to do is lower graphics.

As Yemo mentioned, DDSLoader and 64-bit Linux are both options, but both of those options require a fair amount of work to set up (to get the benefit of DDSLoader you would have to convert all the textures in your gamedata folder to DDS, and setting up Linux for gaming always takes a bit of tweaking to get all the graphics drivers working). One relatively painless option that worked for me is the -force-opengl flag, to try it just right-click on a shortcut to KSP and add that flag to the very end of the command (after the closing double quote around the path). The only side affects are that the graphics are glitched when I first start the game (an alt-tab to desktop and then back into the game resolves everything), antialiasing doesn't work from the in-game settings (you have to force it in your graphics driver) and screenshots are flaky sometimes, like they're grabbing what was shown on the screen a few seconds before you pushed the button.

That option freed up enough memory for me to run a full maxmods install with great stability, along with the Outer Planets mod with EVE, TextureReplacer, PlanetShine and Distant Object Enhancement.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Lord Aurelius

[Svm420]

I want to reccomend this ncie little add on LightsOut. FInally you can test your lighting in the dark! I know I have dreamed of this since my first accidental darkside of the mun landing. It even now supports your, if you use it, texture replacer skybox making it even more beautiful and immersive. A must have for me being lightweight with no conflicts.