[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[Kozzy]

1 hour ago, kcs123 said:

Welcome to forums. You can use SETI with KSP 1.3.1.

To make SETI working with latest MM you need to edit all config files in SETI folders to remove "FOR" commands as instructed in post on previous page:

I recommend using notepad++ or similar advanced text editor capable to search for strings trough several files and folders. Use search function only to get files and lines affected, don't just blindly use replace function without inspecting each line as you might not need to change all of lines.

As for other recommanded changes, it depends on what other mods you have installed beside SETI. You might not even need anything else.
As always, it is good idea to backup your saved game elsewhere before making any changes. Your crafts should not be affected much, but it is better to make a backup to be safe than complain later.

Thanks for re, I got no other mods I want just SETI mods. 

I think I can manage to change configs. I have list of .cfg files from logs that are affected. Just its not clear to me if I need to remove all FORs or just some but I try to see if I can figure that out.

 Does it makes any gameplay changes for me even  I fix this FORs in configs ? Or  it just cosmetic to not have errors ? 

Edited February 10, 2018 by Kozzy

[Kozzy]

thanks

Edited February 11, 2018 by Kozzy

[kcs123]

It's not just cosmetic, when you have no errors then it is ensured that patches are properly applied as intended.

SETI only brinf few new parts, but it change mass and cost of some stock parts as well as rearanging parts to different nodes of technological tree.
It is meant to be used with other mods that bring new parts in game. Without some of mods you may found some technology tree nodes empty.
I can strongly recommended DMagic orbital science mod at least.

Most benefits from SETI comes when you start new career game, it provides diffrent experience how to reach goals with low technology available.

[HellDuke]

10 hours ago, Kozzy said:

Thanks for re, I got no other mods I want just SETI mods. 

I think I can manage to change configs. I have list of .cfg files from logs that are affected. Just its not clear to me if I need to remove all FORs or just some but I try to see if I can figure that out.

 Does it makes any gameplay changes for me even  I fix this FORs in configs ? Or  it just cosmetic to not have errors ? 

Hello, I already went through this process. From what I understood DStaal said there should be no more than 1 of BEFORE, AFTER or FOR which means that if it has both BEFORE and AFTER or BEFORE and FOR it will throw an error. And as linuxgurugamer advised, whenever there is only a FOR I replaced it with NEEDS. Doesn't throw errors for me anymore.

[Kozzy]

8 hours ago, HellDuke said:

Hello, I already went through this process. From what I understood DStaal said there should be no more than 1 of BEFORE, AFTER or FOR which means that if it has both BEFORE and AFTER or BEFORE and FOR it will throw an error. And as linuxgurugamer advised, whenever there is only a FOR I replaced it with NEEDS. Doesn't throw errors for me anymore.

Thanks I have figured out that part. I have some doubts about some changes I made.

Can someone  please  doble check that changes are made are correct ?  (I have no idea what  am I changing)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
166: @PART[*]:HAS[~name[RetroMk1inline],@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[*],~CrewCapacity[0],~author[*RoverDude*]]:NEEDS[TacLifeSupport]:AFTER[TacLifeSupport]:AFTER[SETIrebalance]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And this is what I did with probestack cfgs to get no longer errors: Can you confirm that it is correct ? 

@PART[setiProbeStack2]:NEEDS[RemoteTech,!SETIrebalance]:AFTER[RemoteTech]:FOR[SETIprobeParts]
{
    %MODULE[ModuleSPU] {}
}

@PART[setiProbeStack2]:NEEDS[RemoteTech]:AFTER[RemoteTech]:FOR[SETIprobeParts]

........----------------------------------------------------------------------

@PART[setiProbeStack1]:NEEDS[RemoteTech]:AFTER[RemoteTech]:FOR[SETIprobeParts]
{
    !MODULE[ModuleDataTransmitter] {} 
}

@PART[setiProbeStack1]:NEEDS[RemoteTech,!SETIrebalance]:AFTER[RemoteTech]:FOR[SETIprobeParts]

..........------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Also I have found folowing changes on this forum they do not affect MM errors but qestion is should I change things like this ? 

 

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]]:NEEDS[KerbalEngineer]:FOR[zzzzSETIrebalance]
{
    %MODULE[BuildEngineer] {}
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]]:NEEDS[KerbalEngineer]:FOR[zzzzSETIrebalance]
{

   %MODULE[FlightEngineer]{}
    !MODULE[FlightEngineer]{}
    %MODULE[FlightEngineerModule]{}
}

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Kozzy
I was still working on it and made an update

[Kozzy]

Hello again and sorry for being so active today on forum,

so I have reconfigured configs best I could according my above post to remove all MM errors  and did try to play. 

a)First there is bug  with base game contracts. I do see some basic contracts like reach orbit in when I click on "available" button. Same contract is not visible on sorted contract view. If I accept it I get cash but soon as I click on hangar building contract is gone from my active contract and is again in offers. I use just 1.3.1 base game + CKAN installed meta modpack ... no other mods.  So was are base game contracts meant to be disabled in SETI  by design or not ? Is there way to fix it ?

b)option to resize components as I need seems to me like  cheating research system. But I dont want to disable that procedural parts mod as I presume it could break intended balance design or my ability to progress in game properly.   Every one who has balance in mind  would design SETI without this mod or restrict it to allow just few parts resizing and only certain sizes. Otherwise it breaks whole point of balanced tech tree  and makes lot research useless like large tanks.  ....  I do not take for any helpful reply answer "Do not  resize components if you not like it"  If it does not make sense it should be corrected not ignored. 

o and one short note. there is 1.4 release coming in March and  if SETI for  1.3.1  does not get stabilized than this pack becomes unusable mess. Some of the mods will be on 1.4 not supporting 1.3.1 properly and few  will be not even up to date to support 1.3.1.  ....  Would be great to have  some somewhat stable build without major annoying bugs and obvious balance issues  before 1.4.  Lot of the issues are   items that could be fixed in few minutes  for person who cares to test and play ... if any one cares  any more that is.  I doubt that SETI mod author has played SETI last year for more than 2 hours. (this is not meant as criticism but as feedback and impression after testing MOD) 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Kozzy

[theonegalen]

@Kozzy

I've been playing with SETI-UnmannedBeforeManned for years. What do you think is unbalanced?

[Kozzy]

On 2/12/2018 at 10:37 AM, theonegalen said:

@Kozzy

I've been playing with SETI-UnmannedBeforeManned for years. What do you think is unbalanced?

so maybe it was too hasty comment I did played just like 4 hours but it does not feels right from tech tree unlocking perspective to have all sizes right away.  larger or super small parts should be unlocked via research. But Im person that likes games with balanced to the dota level and  locked rules ....  rather than  only rule being  define yours own rules.

[theonegalen]

Ah, I don't use procedural parts anymore so that may be where the difference lies.

[kcs123]

Yep, usage of procedural parts and tweakscale makes difficult to balance for any tech tree available out there. Similar is with tweakscale too.
Only true balance is to restrict yourself in a way how you use those parts. For example, I tend to use tweakscale only for IR parts. But since I use also B9PW, I don't use much of any other wing parts. Exception is rockets, when it is more simple to use just pre-made stock parts for fins.

But, this is what moding is all about, to adjust whole game for personal preference.

[Kozzy]

so we   say we can safely remove whole procedural mod and should be fine ?  Simple solution  would be to remove procedural mod from suggested parts and move it to supported to make it clear SETI  by default can work without them. 

 What worries me more is this broken MM configs and bugged contracts Iv mentioned. Would be nice to have it fixed before 1.4. This is what I hate on moded based games like minecraft. Constant compatibility balance issues and   wating for last missing mod update or bug fix ...  and once it seems its really close for all mods  being up to date  they release new kerbal or minecraft version  and all goes to ... again...   I know how difficult it  is. You  start mod for fun and it becomes chore.  

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by Kozzy

[SpartanJack17]

I don't suppose the unmanned before manned tech tree is mirrored on github etc?  Spacedock's currently down due to a DDOS, so it can't be downloaded.

 

Looks like it's back up.

Edited February 14, 2018 by SpartanJack17
changed

[GFX5000i]

I've learned here that Module Manager made some recent changes in the syntax that can break some patches. In the case I've noticed SETIrebalance > SETI-ScienceSettings.cfg was affected in the biome changes for crewReport and evaReport.

The fix is to remove [*] in both patches, but there might have other patches with the same issue.

[kcs123]

Following post deserves to be linked in this thread too, for all players that use AirplanePlus, SKT and KAX parts along with SETI:

 

 

[theonegalen]

I've also made a forum thread for the configs, because feedback and suggestions are welcome!

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by theonegalen
Forgot the link, d'oh!

[Ant432]

Is it just me, or do I get more science than before? Now I get large science amounts by doing Thermometer, Barometer adn Telemetry experiments (Around 30 science, 33 with contracts) in my first mission (ground, low and high atmosphere), which is enough for me to unlock the first level of technology alongside Stability, whereas I wasn't able to before.

Even before the 70% science nerf, which was removed.

Edited March 3, 2018 by AntoniusCDXXXII

[kcs123]

Due to MM changes, SETI fails to apply 0.7 science multiplication. It produce not an integer number for multiplication or something like that in log file.

[Ant432]

25 minutes ago, kcs123 said:

Due to MM changes, SETI fails to apply 0.7 science multiplication. It produce not an integer number for multiplication or something like that in log file.

I did delete all "FOR SETIRebalance" in the config. Is there a way to fix that other than that?

 

[kcs123]

57 minutes ago, AntoniusCDXXXII said:

I did delete all "FOR SETIRebalance" in the config. Is there a way to fix that other than that?

It is not related with "FOR SETIRebalance", there is some other command that multiply science point with factor of 0.7

That should give you 70% of stock science points from experiments. However it no longer can be "0.7", it can only be whole number "1", "2", or similar. It might be necessary to divide it by "2" or some other close number instead of multiplication.

I just catched message on screen about it, since I was enabled showing log messages on screen, but haven't yet pinpointed exact command line that need to be changed in SETI config files.

[theonegalen]

I never used that part of the config myself, I just changed it in the difficulty settings.

[leoking470]

I installed all seti mods available on ckan and everything seems to work except the contracts. They dont show up. Please help

[Nik Power]

On 04.03.2018 at 6:38 PM, leoking470 said:

I installed all seti mods available on ckan and everything seems to work except the contracts. They dont show up. Please help

Do You use Contract Configurator and Remote Tech 1.8.9 ?

If Yes - download Remote Tech 1.8.8 and install manually - must help

[Jesusthebird]

Did an update get pushed? MM doesn't throw errors for me, I wasnt expecting that lol. 1.4.1 btw

Edited March 14, 2018 by Jesusthebird

[kcs123]

SETI was defined as compatible for wider versions in CKAN metadata. Since it is mostly just MM patches, not much is broken unlike mods that require plugin recompile.
If you have edited config files to get rid of error messages and updated KSP over existing KSP 1.3.1. version, you should be fine.

It is always possible that some things won't be properly balanced if SQUAD made significant change to some parts, but it should not be something that will make game unplayable.

[Jesusthebird]

8 hours ago, kcs123 said:

SETI was defined as compatible for wider versions in CKAN metadata. Since it is mostly just MM patches, not much is broken unlike mods that require plugin recompile.
If you have edited config files to get rid of error messages and updated KSP over existing KSP 1.3.1. version, you should be fine.

It is always possible that some things won't be properly balanced if SQUAD made significant change to some parts, but it should not be something that will make game unplayable.

heres the thing tho, I havnt edited any configs, downloaded from ckan(max ksp version 1.99.99: Build version 1.3.0.2, with zero MM errors by default. Im not complaining lol, just confused.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Jesusthebird