Thoughts on clipping parts

[tater]

I never clip anything. Assuming the new aero is no better than FAR at dealing with clipping (which has to be really complicated, because it is certainly cheating as soon as surface area matters, so I doubt it can be any better), then it's an exploit, IMO.

[Joonatan1998]

But that pretty well says that you believe that part clipping is wrong in some way (sorry for putting words in your mouth). If part clipping is a legitimate part of the game (which is surely part of this discussion thread) then why does the "finished game" letting you use a legitimate feature "feel wrong"?

KSP is the only game I know that calls clipping a feature.

Clipping in other games = unfinished, bad.

Being used to clipping being bad makes it seem really weird to have it as a game mechanic, and I think some new players (rewiewers) may not like it.

Finished KSP may have clipping as a legit game mechanic, but it will still seem unfinished if compared with other games.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Joonatan1998

[Wallygator]

If I can't change the size of the parts, I shall take advantage of the positioning!!!!

[tater]

Once aerodynamics is stock, clipping is clearly "wrong." I can't see any other possible way to see this. You can claim the mass is the same, that;s fine when aero is ridiculously tied to mass. Once the shape/surface area/cross section matters, clipping is, well, cheating.

[Wallygator]

Once aerodynamics is stock, clipping is clearly "wrong." I can't see any other possible way to see this. You can claim the mass is the same, that;s fine when aero is ridiculously tied to mass. Once the shape/surface area/cross section matters, clipping is, well, cheating.

Agree. But until segregation and spacial overlay is completely adopted then cheating will still be available.

[Robotengineer]

I use clipping on occasion, primarily for aesthetics, i.e when you don't want big ugly radial engines on your rover.

[cantab]

KSP is the only game I know that calls clipping a feature.

It's one of the only games that lets you construct your own functional vehicles from parts and doesn't lock the part placement to a 3D grid, though.

[tater]

If 2 otherwise identical crafts are made, and one has the radial tanks clipped such that the surface as seen by aero is 20% lower, that craft will be better.

[Overfloater]

I don't like the look of ram air intakes so I put them inside fuel tanks/ hitchhiker canisters.

[klesh]

If 2 otherwise identical crafts are made, and one has the radial tanks clipped such that the surface as seen by aero is 20% lower, that craft will be better.

So, any craft designer worth his salt would make the better (aesthetically and performing) craft, no?

[Taki117]

[satire]You can clip if you want to, you can leave your friends behind. Your friends don't clip, and if they don't clip, well they ain't no friends of mine.[/satire]

[GusTurbo]

Clipping can be used for good or ill. I prefer to use it for good.

[SpacedCowboy]

I would say with the new drag and aerodynamics coming, clipping may become the new "in thing" to do! (Yes, pun intended.)

[Bloody_looser]

I've clipped QBE into all my single-pod crafts and totally ok with that

[bdito]

It's your game. Do whatever you want.

I clip for aesthetics all the time.

[tater]

So, any craft designer worth his salt would make the better (aesthetically and performing) craft, no?

Only if in real life you could put 20% more stuff inside the exact same space. It requires magic, so someone who wants to cheat will cheat.

As for aesthetics… most of the clipped stuff I see posted here looks pretty kludged together, actually, it does nothing for me. YMMV.

Edited January 29, 2015 by tater

[sal_vager]

Reminds me of the turrets in Portal, firing 35% more bullet per bullet

[GoSlash27]

I have no opinion about clipping from an aesthetic standpoint, but I have seen several cases where clipping can generate phantom acceleration forces in orbit. I generally don't clip for that reason, but if clipping is necessary to get parts to fit a certain way, I'm not too proud to do it.

Best,

-Slashy

[Liowen]

Only if in real life you could put 20% more stuff inside the exact same space. It requires magic, so someone who wants to cheat will cheat.

As for aesthetics… most of the clipped stuff I see posted here looks pretty kludged together, actually, it does nothing for me. YMMV.

Hmmm well in real life you would make the item in question smaller. Here is a good example:

Imagine how many micro sd cards could fit into that IBM 3380 storage block....

[panzer1b]

I generally avoid it unless im building for very specific aesthetics.

A few things i do clip habitually:

Nuke engines (too bloody long and they dont really look good on most of my designs, i either clip em inside the tank theyre attached to, or alternatively create a covering for the entire engine cluster out of wings or something to not have visible exposed nukes).

RAM intakes, now i avoid airhogging as much as possible, but i have a couple SSTO builds that weight roughly 20 tons and need at least 10 RAM intakes at a bare minimum to even fly. In this case i will clip those intakes inside the hull, as that particular design also has a very specific look to it that im not about to ruin by having a visible intake cluster anywhere. Also, RAMs, while being the best intake area to mass ratio, are the optimal, but are argulably not very good looking on many designs. Heck, the glowy stuff as cool as it is on some niche designs, doesnt look good for an intake, looks far better when flipped backwards as an engine.

Some support parts like RTGs, batteries, ect, provided placing them externally will take away from the appearance.

Other then those two things, i avoid clipping in general. I try to stay away from clipping fuel tanks, and only do it somewhat when i absolutely have to make it look a certain way. I also sometimes clip things like cockpits. Wing and control surface clipping is also one i avoid, but some designs simply need it (mostly sci-fi replicas), in order to say fly in atmosphere but not have any visible wings (one example is my Normandy replica, which didnt exactly have many exposed wings, and i needed it to be atmo capable, hence a couple clipped wings/canards inside to make it actually fly). All in all, i stick to as much realism as possible, but for anything thats a aesthetic design, or a sci-fi replica that has to look a particular way, i will be more then willing to clip whatever needs to be clipped to achieve said appearance.

Edited January 29, 2015 by panzer1b

[Baenki]

There is no cheating in a single player sandbox game. Do what ever you want or consider acceptable. I use clipping regularly to get sleeker more aerodynamic designs.

[tater]

Hmmm well in real life you would make the item in question smaller. Here is a good example:

http://cdn5.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/gg/up/sshot4f47b599bcf34.jpg

Imagine how many micro sd cards could fit into that IBM 3380 storage block....

Yes, I've seen both ^^^ in person. That's actually a terrible example. The computers were a small volume of spacecraft.

What is going to be made smaller about volumes of propellant, and by how much? (yes, fuels have different densities, etc, but that is more complex than clipping, there are other trade offs, clipping is only positive with aero)

Space capsules? Maybe 7 people in the space of 3? Um, no. What tech in KSP can be legitimately made smaller?

Probe cores? Yeah, maybe, but the game has several.

Remember, also, that almost all tech in KSP dates to the 1960s, yet a modern, 3 man capsule would look little different than Apollo, only with better electronics.

Not realistically clip-able stuff using your claim above:

Tanks.

Capsules.

Habitation.

Engines (no one would clip these much)

What does that leave? Wings make sense, since they have very limited types/sizes.

Batteries? Already large, but maybe.

I can;t really think of anything, give some examples.

- - - Updated - - -

There is no cheating in a single player sandbox game. Do what ever you want or consider acceptable. I use clipping regularly to get sleeker more aerodynamic designs.

With actual aerodynamics, clipping is an exploit. Do what you want, that;s fine, but it's like kraken drives, or those crafts with kerbals climbing stairs that can achieve orbit. Doing something impossible because weaknesses in the game engine allows it doesn't make it any less silly.

Edited January 30, 2015 by tater

[Liowen]

With actual aerodynamics, clipping is an exploit. Do what you want, that;s fine, but it's like kraken drives, or those crafts with kerbals climbing stairs that can achieve orbit. Doing something impossible because weaknesses in the game engine allows it doesn't make it any less silly.

Because small green men are completely serious . Also it wasn't a terrible example it contains the same silicon base chip set that is present in the 80's version, however it is much more compressed as to be the same amount only smaller. If you want to judge people for how they play I guess that is your right, but it does not valid your point really. If you use mods to alter the aerodynamics is that cheating? If I want to fly a cheese burger into space is that cheating because cheese burgers cannot fly? There is no right way to play an open ended game if one person enjoys that is great they have that right, just as you have the right to play the same game as you see fit. The problem arises when players try to dictate the "correct" or "only" way to play, and anyone not doing it this way is cheating or just being silly. I find it silly when people want a game with little green men to be realistic.

[Rolanvorxariat]

I do it to make things look nice, but beware when you clips things in a decoupler...

(Yes, is gets stuck. i hate you, heatsheild that is still stuck on my duna hab)

[Tank Buddy]

KSP uses a modular building system i.e. "Parts", it limits the player's ability to create a truly custom craft that adheres exactly to what they need, more or less what engineers try to do in real life. Part clipping is a way to create a unique and specialized arrangement of parts to fit one's needs, so I'll never complain about how someone chooses to build theirs ship. I will admit that intake spamming with struts or clipping fuel tanks are things that I frown upon, but I would only frown upon myself for doing them, not other players.