Should SQUAD post all KSP announcements on the official forum?

[SpaceHips]

Also, the fact that people speak badly of 4chan, yet they interact with members of the 4chan community without knowing it shows a high level of ignorance and prejudice.

Just a note, the people we're friends with on the team were 4channers themselves long before they were squad employees.

For over a decade now, in fact.

Just something to consider.

You should realize that not all members of a group are the same as eachother, nor do they always behave the same.

People who are ignorant of 4chan culture and how the site works as a whole consistently bash the entire thing without considering that a loud minority may be causing the ruckus.

The fact that your own Squad employees are long-tme 4channers should speak to that.

We aren't all big bad evil guys, not that anyone would listen. In fact, most of us aren't.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sure there are some very nice individuals on 4Chan. However at a certain point a symbol becomes so tainted by the actions of people that have displayed it in the past, that there's no separating the symbol from the historical associations.

I am not lying or exaggerating in saying that the previous "we are watching" post has made me physically afraid in a very real way due to my past interactions with that community, so I think it's a good time for me to step out of this conversation.

To be clear, we're not watching you, just the thread in general, as it relates to us.

We regularly talk about threads here on the forums, along with other tweets and posts made by squad.

We find the comments that people make about us funny, which is why i said "we're having fun".

You're really afraid for no reason here.

[r4pt0r]

found the thread on /vg/. Certain persons here are getting famous... hilarious.

[Alizerin]

You are comparing apples to oranges. First of all there is a whole Suggestions subforum in here, that actually is filled with *gasp* threads with suggestions. More, even if it was just the two threads, the situations are far from equivalent: in one the devs of the game asked for suggestions, in the other someone made the gracious favour of pointing that the devs had gone elsewhere to ask for input ( that most likely they already had given liberally in the sugestions and development threads ). You can't really expect that the reactions would be the same ...

Really? I think it's completely reasonable to expect (or rather, hope for) reactions to be the same.

It's not the devs fault if people get resentful over when and where the devs choose to post questions to the community. You say: "someone made the gracious favor of pointing...", which - to me - sounds like someone went to some great burdensome trouble because the devs simply couldn't be bothered to post on the forums. To me, your choice of language makes it sound like the developers are going out of their way to poopoo on the forums.

Maybe that wasn't the tone you were trying to convey, but that is certainly what I read into your post.

But that's not really the truth. The truth is: someone cross-posted something they saw on Reddit, and forum-goers chose to allow themselves to get riled up and react emotionally rather than just looking at the data.

I did this search, and while there are a few good ideas in there, there isn't really anything as specific as what was required in the original post on Reddit. Further, while all the good stuff is really buried in there, I think it's reasonable to expect that the developers taken note of the best ideas in there. Finally, as has been noted before, Reddit probably has a wider viewing range, and access to more new players who might be able to provide the feedback they were looking for.

What I don't understand is how it is unreasonable that the developers went to a different forum for feedback when they wanted to cultivate that forum specifically for feedback, and why it's unreasonable to expect people on this forum to react to that situation...reasonably.

[basic.syntax]

A rocket died while I was distracted here The only other game forum I have participated in, is for EVE Online, where players make a habit of tearing the company, and each other, apart on a daily basis. (Every 2-3 months, a new "EVE is dying" thread, complete with all the reasons players can think of, and Peak-Concurrent-User graphs on the side.)

This place is a breath of fresh air by comparison, where players often help each other, instead of "I can haz your stuff now, yes?" Also, default black text on white background in these forums, is much easier on my eyes than their white text on black

I would rather support and encourage Squad to continue with what communication we have, and try to show ways the glass is half full - than complain too much about other media activity.

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

found the thread on /vg/. Certain persons here are getting famous... hilarious.

Max posts there too. :^)

[FlowerChild]

We find the comments that people make about us funny, which is why i said "we're having fun".

You're really afraid for no reason here.

Riiiiight...and the reference to Minecraft and the drama there was just making friendly conversation.

Look man, both you know, and I know, the message that was intended to convey, and it was done quite effectively. Message communicated and received. You win.

[Alizerin]

The only other game forum I have participated in, is for EVE Online, where players make a habit of tearing the company, and each other, apart on a daily basis. (Every 2-3 months, a new "EVE is dying" thread, complete with all the reasons players can think of, and Peak-Concurrent-User graphs on the side.)

Kerbin needs nullec and more YARRRR.

[r_rolo1]

@Alizerin

Well, what I was pointing was that in one thread the interested person asked for input and in other thread there was someone that saw that first thread and said elsewhere to other people that the interested person wanted feedback ... it is the difference between me asking you for help and me wanting help but asking your neighbor and then your neighbor tells you that I've asked for help. In the first you might help or not, but it is clear that I want your help, while in the second that is far from clear ( I didn't asked you, right ? ). You can somewhat reasonably conclude that i do not want your help and act accordingly, especially if you had already offered help to me with no visible feedback from my part ...

On my tone, like I said Kaspervid some pages ago, I've been in this boat already and TBH I have a very thin fuse for when it appears to me that the marketing wants that the fans do the work they are paid to do, because that breaks communities fast and furiously. People don't like to feel used , after all ...

[SpaceHips]

Riiiiight...and the reference to Minecraft and the drama there was just making friendly conversation.

Look man, both you know, and I know, the message that was intended to convey, and it was done quite effectively. Message communicated and received. You win.

Not really.

I was legitimately interested, as i knew some drama back in the day was why you left.

The drama i was speaking of is in the forge community right now.

Pretty much everyone does remember you though, it's not like you were an obscure name.

Also your mod was weird, but i liked the waterwheels.

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

Some fine examples on Max's posts on 4chan:

Funny story, 4chan actually heard dv readouts were going to be stock long before he tweeted it. And yes, that is his tripcode, he once tweeted something about birds in a KSP thread, that was the verification we told him to use.

[Maxmaps]

Max posts there too. :^)

Been on that site for ages, yeah. Downright pleasant if you stick to the right places in it.

It was never our intention for the forums to feel neglected. If anything there has been an issue of balance, as we thought other communities (which granted are easier to read and filter than the forums) kinda needing engagement to parallel that of the forums. Devnotes go here, blog posts and devlogs happen here, too, it has been an effort to even things out regarding offsite communities and the like. We even were happy to track messages and see how long it would take from a message to get from point A to B.

We'll make sure to use the announcement subforum sees more use for this kind of thing.

Edit: If anything this proves that community intermingling has grown successfully. Outside of some offsite communities which have chosen to wall themselves off due to disdain for the others, but hey, their loss. I say go everywhere, participate in all conversations. Enrichment's good and one's never too old to learn new methods of communication.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Maxmaps

[Specialist290]

Not really.

I was legitimately interested, as i knew some drama back in the day was why you left.

The drama i was speaking of is in the forge community right now.

Pretty much everyone does remember you though, it's not like you were an obscure name.

Also your mod was weird, but i liked the waterwheels.

Friendly moderator reminder: While we respect that you're curious about what happened, it might be better for you and FlowerChild to continue this particular discussion through private channels to keep this thread on-mission.

[Pthigrivi]

^Hey man

These threads get a little inside-baseball for me. All I can think is YAY DELTA VEEEEEEEEEEE

[SpaceHips]

Friendly moderator reminder: While we respect that you're curious about what happened, it might be better for you and FlowerChild to continue this particular discussion through private channels to keep this thread on-mission.

I tried, but senpai won't notice me.

[r4pt0r]

Back on topic here, there will be a new Kommunity manager at somepoint. Could that person at the least post links here to off forums official stuff? like

"HEY there's _________ going on at ______" and then we see it and can engage if we wish. I understand the need for multiple outlets of info, but if it were to be mentioned here that would be most cool.

[PDCWolf]

Back on topic here, there will be a new Kommunity manager at somepoint. Could that person at the least post links here to off forums official stuff? like

"HEY there's _________ going on at ______" and then we see it and can engage if we wish. I understand the need for multiple outlets of info, but if it were to be mentioned here that would be most cool.

Ain't that Kasper now anyways?

[r4pt0r]

Ain't that Kasper now anyways?

lol did I miss that too?

EDIT: oh it was semi-mentioned in the dev notes. sorry kasper, I dont normally read your section, no offence.

[SpaceHips]

-snip-

This.

I don't think quickly mentioning something worthy of a news post on a handfull of other sites is too much to ask for.

Many people who'd otherwise miss the information would certainly appreciate it.

Basically, if it's worth posting here, it's probably worth posting everywhere.

lol did I miss that too?

Yeah, but don't forget, Max doesn't let Kasper post on 4chan anymore.

[Maxmaps]

lol did I miss that too?

Consider Kasper our provisional CM for now. Dude's pretty good at it!

[basic.syntax]

I would like to read how HarvesteR's mind changed, or was - changed, over providing delta-v info. I thought he made a very thoughtful case for not having it, whether I agree or not, it was a well-made argument.

Falange: I wanted it sometimes, and I un-wanted it other times. In the end, it takes away a gameplay element because it takes some of the guesswork and some of the trial and error and figuring out for yourself what the delta-V is. It might take some of the magic away. [....] it's like giving the answer to a puzzle sometimes, and I don't know if we want that. The same applies to showing how much burn time you have remaining. I think there's always this element of tension of trying to calculate in your head how much fuel you have left and if you're going to make it. It's like filling out the crossword puzzle for you.

[White Owl]

Been on that site for ages, yeah. Downright pleasant if you stick to the right places in it.

It was never our intention for the forums to feel neglected. If anything there has been an issue of balance, as we thought other communities (which granted are easier to read and filter than the forums) kinda needing engagement to parallel that of the forums. Devnotes go here, blog posts and devglogs happen here, too, it has been an effort to even things out regarding offsite communities and the like. We even were happy to track messages and see how long it would take from a message to get from point A to B.

We'll make sure to use the announcement subforum sees more use for this kind of thing.

Edit: If anything this proves that community intermingling has grown successfully. Outside of some offsite communities which have chosen to wall themselves off due to disdain for the others, but hey, their loss. I say go everywhere, participate in all conversations. Enrichment's good and one's never too old to learn new methods of communication.

And it honestly didn't occur to you that telling this tiny bit of information about the dV to exactly the crowd that has been asking for it the longest, the original fans of the game, would generate some good will!? Did you want the current mess instead!?

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

And it honestly didn't occur to you that telling this tiny bit of information about the dV to exactly the crowd that has been asking for it the longest, the original fans of the game, would generate some good will!? Did you want the current mess instead!?

Actually, most the people on 4chan have probably been playing the game longer than most people on the forum.

[r4pt0r]

I would like to read how HarvesteR's mind changed, or was - changed, over providing delta-v info. I thought he made a very thoughtful case for not having it, whether I agree or not, it was a well-made argument.

I feel the same, but it is coming and there is no going back. but that is a different thread entirely.

Congrats (Temporarily?) Kasper!

[Maxmaps]

And it honestly didn't occur to you that telling this tiny bit of information about the dV to exactly the crowd that has been asking for it the longest, the original fans of the game, would generate some good will!? Did you want the current mess instead!?

Of course not... but I'm curious about your emphasis on the original fans part. Do you consider that makes the forum more worthy or better than the rest of the communities because of it?

[PDCWolf]

I would like to read how HarvesteR's mind changed, or was - changed, over providing delta-v info. I thought he made a very thoughtful case for not having it, whether I agree or not, it was a well-made argument.

I find a problem with this argument. Guesswork based gameplay exists because of the lack of actually useful, processed (delta v, final weight, final twr, etc) information. The fact that he calls that a gameplay element seems more like shielding himself from such an obvious thing rather than facing the truth and going "yeah we tell you to make rockets while blind and with your hands tied but we liked it that way in the end"

Edited February 12, 2015 by PDCWolf