what kind of ksp DLC would you like?

[Robotengineer]

Actually, DLC would be another reason for Squad to switch engines. Unity is easily moddable, which is a good thing for players, but it means Squad is not really able to offer anything that somebody else couldn't do, and do for free. I DO NOT want In App Purchases, those things are freaking evil, legit DLC is different because it's not trying to nickel and dime you to death or debt. I think the major limiting factor will be Unity, so if Unity 5 isn't, and it probably won't be the silver bullet, KSP 2 should be on a different engine, or better a custom made one.

[technicalfool]

I think people can voice their opposition to DLC without getting quite so, erm, "expressive" as they are doing in this thread. Please do so. Flipping birds is impolite, cruel to animals and generally against forum rules.

And on that note, what would people think if a mechanism were introduced whereby modders can be remunerated for their work? An "app store" for KSP?

[Bandock]

If there was a move to a custom engine from Unity, SDL2 to use for such an engine would be great a place to start since there are supposed to be bindings to C# for those who are experienced with C#. One nice thing about SDL2 is it can run on multiple platforms as well as be compatible with various licenses. Heck, one can even use OpenGL/Direct3D with it of course.

I have not experimented with SDL2 through C#, but I have experimented with SDL2 through C++. Of course, a custom engine will take time to design (in fact, more time than developing a game itself). I know because I have ideas for a game engine that is not available yet as it takes time to design it. I actually have plans for a game that is currently unannounced that might benefit Kerbal Space Program, but as stated is currently under planning.

[Scotius]

How about a KSP 2?

An entire sequel?

Interstellar Kerbals ftw.

This. If SQUAD ever announces KSP 2 or another space game with similiar premise, i will be here with my wallet ready. DLC? Thanks, but no. They tend to spoil even really enjoyable games, because with time more and more time and effort of the developing team gets redirected towards churning useless skins, buffs and pets instead of optimalisation and new content.

[technicalfool]

If there was a move to a custom engine from Unity, SDL2 to use for such an engine would be great a place to start since there are supposed to be bindings to C# for those who are experienced with C#. One nice thing about SDL2 is it can run on multiple platforms as well as be compatible with various licenses. Heck, one can even use OpenGL/Direct3D with it of course.

I have not experimented with SDL2 through C#, but I have experimented with SDL2 through C++. Of course, a custom engine will take time to design (in fact, more time than developing a game itself). I know because I have ideas for a game engine that is not available yet as it takes time to design it. I actually have plans for a game that is currently unannounced that might benefit Kerbal Space Program, but as stated is currently under planning.

Ahem. Simple Directmedia Layer is much lower level than Unity. What you're saying is similar to "Squad should use OpenGL or DirectX instead of Unity." Unity uses DirectX or OpenGL itself.

That said, SDL and SDL2 is not bad at what it does. It also interfaces with OpenGL for 3D, that I recall.

Edited February 13, 2015 by technicalfool

[smjjames]

I think Squad should stay away from dlcs and not fall into that trap.

[Rithsom]

Yeah, I'll gladly pay for a new game, not DLCs.

It would also be very unfair to those of us who bought KSP after May 1st, 2013 (assuming they're still sticking to that statement).

Edited February 13, 2015 by Rthsom

[Ringkeeper]

i don't mind DLC if they are not "mandatory" . Somehow they need to make money later to keep the game running. Just from one sell worth 22€ they don't make enough. Normal games cost 60+€ nowadays AND bring DLCs . And i'm happy to support a company that keeps a game alive and supported. Not like Ubi.... and EA that bring overpriced, bugged games for full price and then charge for "pre order" "weapon packs" and stop the bugfix after 3 month.....

[Nitrous Oxide]

And on that note, what would people think if a mechanism were introduced whereby modders can be remunerated for their work? An "app store" for KSP?

Rewarding modders for the work is a great idea, and Valve has shown it works well.

However, let's keep it reasonable... because game devs aren't the only ones that have to eat, eh? My first few years in college weren't exactly me eating steak dinner every night... so I always keep the younger crowds in mind when it comes to games and pricing... after all, they should be the prime audience above all else...

[AlphaAsh]

... And on that note, what would people think if a mechanism were introduced whereby modders can be remunerated for their work? An "app store" for KSP?

Dear Sir,

I have a spare flame-retardent nuclear bomb shelter for sale at a very reasonable price. You may need it. I'm going to need the other one.

But more seriously, sounds great in principle. Of course I'd like to get paid for making mods for a game. But reality check. Has any other game ever supported this and if so, did the community kill the modders with fire?

[Nitrous Oxide]

But reality check. Has any other game ever supported this and if so, did the community kill the modders with fire?

Team Fortress 2, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, possibly DOTA2 (Idk, don't play Dota)... Valve has been experimenting with this for a while.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Nitrous Oxide

[Roderik]

I'll second/third/x the notion of a middle finger for DLC. Especially for a game like KSP, unless they're going to lock out mods some how, I just can't see the appeal of paying for more planets or something when you can get the same thing from a mod for free.

it doesn't hav to be more planets but you should think of something like more parts and a story and more solar systems.

[ddenis]

I'm against DLCs for game in current state. Not until it will be finished and polished. If they drop KSP halfway and start adding better skybox or clouds or anything that is an essential part of the game I'd be angry.

But if they finish the game and then propose some interesting addition to it - I could by it.

[Roderik]

NO. Now go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

i'm already in a corner because my computer is in a corner. i think i started an argument but i totally don't care because debate is one of the reasons for a forum:)

- - - Updated - - -

And on that note, what would people think if a mechanism were introduced whereby modders can be remunerated for their work? An "app store" for KSP?

an appstore? great idea! players can easily install mods while in game. having to pay for mods no way!

i btw regret that i came up with the idea of a community mods DLC but i would pay an extra 10 dollars or euro's or pounds to have a story mode in ksp (not career mode)

Edited February 13, 2015 by Roderik

[cpast]

i'm already in a corner because my computer is in a corner. i think i started an argument but i totally don't care because debate is one of the reasons for a forum:)

- - - Updated - - -

an appstore? great idea! players can easily install mods while in game. having to pay for mods no way!

i btw regret that i came up with the idea of a community mods DLC but i would pay an extra 10 dollars or euro's or pounds to have a story mod in ksp (not career mode)

"App store" kind of implies that some of the things there will be paid. You don't call something a "store" if everything's free.

[Wjolcz]

DLC not really needed, but if I could think of any it would be something like Star Wars. With OP engines, laser pew-pew guns and an empire to fight against. Or some other aliens. Maybe some alternation of human history of rocketry but with actual aliens involved.

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

And on that note, what would people think if a mechanism were introduced whereby modders can be remunerated for their work? An "app store" for KSP?

I'd happily pay. In fact I tried, but they used PayPal which doesn't work with Argentinian credit cards (don't ask)... But sure, I'd pay for that, hell, in my case, half of KSP is mods.

[Bandock]

Ahem. Simple Directmedia Layer is much lower level than Unity. What you're saying is similar to "Squad should use OpenGL or DirectX instead of Unity." Unity uses DirectX or OpenGL itself.

That said, SDL and SDL2 is not bad at what it does. It also interfaces with OpenGL for 3D, that I recall.

Yeah, it definitely interfaces with OpenGL and is of much lower level. I figured that mentioning SDL2 usage would allow one to have further control in the event Unity does not provide enough (though Unity as an engine is quite powerful and speeds up development time). Heck, I have been deciding if I should use Unity for my next game or develop a custom engine using SDL2 as one of the libraries.

One plan I even have (which is similar to an over-ambitious game plan I came up with 11-12 years ago that never took off) involves a staged system where I would use one language or engine before moving on to another. For that reason, I might consider Unity first stage and if all goes well, I will stick with it. Otherwise, I may move on to another engine or language to expand further.

Off-Topic: That game plan I came up was a real life simulator that was supposed to have many features. Actually planned this one since my Freshman/Sophomore year in high school, but never quite took off. Talk about overly ambitious.

[Roderik]

"App store" kind of implies that some of the things there will be paid. You don't call something a "store" if everything's free.

how about a graig's list

[Torquemadus]

Ideally, if Squad continue to develop KSP, more people will continue to buy it, and those of us who bought the game while it was in Early Access will continue to reap an insanely high ratio of fun and hours played to price paid for our copy of KSP!

For other game franchises I've been a fan of over the years, I've been expected to occasionally pay some money for the latest release, be it an expansion or a brand new version of the game. Game developers have to eat after all! Most of us expect that if Squad continue to develop KSP as a long term franchise, then we will eventually find ourselves purchasing our copy of KSP 2.0 when the time comes.

An alternative future for KSP might be expansions that take the game in a different direction, even while the core game continues to be developed. In this case, some players might want to pay for the extra development work entailed in making the expansion, while other players might decide to opt out and stick with the core game. This approach would allow Squad to spend money on paying some of their developers to develop features that not all of the KSP fan base want to pay for.

For example, I think that KSP should allow players to guide kerbals through their first steps in becoming a multi-planet species. Becoming a multi-planet species is vitally important to our future IRL, and I believe that KSP needs to reflect that in a fun way that's accessible to ordinary people. I think that KSP should allow players to move beyond "flags and footprints" and into meaningful exploration that opens the way for settlement and economic development of the Kerbol system. I personally think that this should be kept strictly near-term in it's scope. KSP should not depict space exploration as something that should be ignored until the far future. On the other hand, not everyone who plays KSP wants to play "Space Tycoon", although if you ask me, exploring space without understanding why you would want to go there in the first place seems bizarre!

There are other players who want to depict interstellar space travel. There are technologies that are know today, but which are technologically immature, that can be used to reach nearby stars on missions that take only a few decades. A few decades is still a long time, but it's still a huge improvement over the hundreds or thousands of years flight times offered by less advanced propulsion methods. The technology required is quite advanced: Fusion thermal rockets, light sails, magnetic sails, and antimatter propulsion, are all understood in principle, but aren't something that could be developed and built as near term technology. On the other hand, no science fiction tricks are required. Obviously, an interstellar expansion would need to ensure that players have somewhere to go. The current version of KSP does some weird things if you send a spacecraft too far into deep space, so an overhaul of the current coordinates system would be needed.

I don't think many players fully appreciate what it would take to make even a passing attempt at implementing a decent depiction of even Kerbol's inner solar system. I don't think that most players even begin to understand exactly how much traffic, in terms of presently detected asteroids, is present on current maps of the inner solar system. The business of tracking Near Earth Asteroids is currently considered to be unimportant, so the task is relegated to small and obsolete telescopes. Dinosaur killers are tracked, city killers are not. Big dinosaur killers are rare, smaller city killers are extremely common! As a consequence of this, please ensure you are wearing a hard hat! Due to their large size, the best defence against asteroids is to mine them to depletion before they can kill you! Don't worry, although impact is inevitable in a great many cases, we frequently have many orbits to go before they hit us. Being killed by a flying lump of platinum group metals, industrial resources, and ISRU feedstock would be wasteful and embarrassing in equal measure!

If Kerbol's inner solar system isn't enough for you, how about an Outer Solar System expansion!? We currently have a Jupiter analogue in KSP. If you want to see exactly how hopelessly inadequate that is, ask yourself one question: Where Is New Horizons? Seriously, the current Kerbol system is a joke, and suggestions for Gas Planet 2 are a joke right along with it. Give us a decent outer solar system! As an advantage, the Kuiper Belt is already spelt with a K, so end-gamers can be kept busy exploring the Kerbal Kuiper Belt! There are many known Kuiper Belt dwarf planets in orbits that make utter nonsense of the comparatively tiny orbit of the Pluto/Charon system. The inclusion of a modest number of Kuiper belt iceteroids (there are estimated to be trillons of the comparatively rare bigger ones) should help to set things in perspective.

Squad could make a semi-realistic Kerbol system by populating it with major planets, their moons, and very severely limited representative examples of asteroids, iceteroids and dwarf planets. No computers should be harmed or melted in the making of this spaceflight simulation!

Edited February 13, 2015 by Torquemadus

[ColourOfFire]

To be fair, things like DLCs are sort of a requirement if you want a company like Squad to stay in business and keep working on the same game. Without alternative streams of revenue and new content, eventually the numbers of people purchasing the game will dwindle, and the company will make less and less money.

We don't pay subscriptions to keep playing KSP. Games like Eve Online, WoW, etc. get constant revenue and new subscribers (and renew old ones) when they kick out an expansion. KSP can't do that, and so DLCs and expansions make a lot of sense when the company looks at the bottom line.

I dislike DLCs too, but they aren't that bad and in a lot of ways could be very good for Squad and the game in general.

Or they could just scrimp along and wait to be bought out by EA.

As for what I would pay for? I'm not sure. It's a tricky subject because as noted above: almost anything can be acquired through a mod.

Maybe expanded content that is difficult to mod. Stuff like explorable cave systems or submarine exploration. Strange moons with layers like Europa. Expansions on the level of the NASA asteroid thing maybe.

Tough to say.

In any case, it's easy to rattle sabers at DLCs, but the truth is nobody wants to work for free, an you have to put milk on the table somehow. DLCs are *one* way Squad can do that.

They are absolutely not necessary to keep game developers in business, especially not if you fund your development through early access. There's no reason for the development team to keep working on KSP as long as EVE and WoW are being maintained, it's an entirely different sort of game. Just price the base game right, update it till it's stable and feature complete and move on.

Companies used to actually finish games before release, I'm really not into the whole craze of half assed products, loads of patches and tons of DLC.

I stopped buying games from developers like Creative Assembly and Paradox because of this. I hate reading a tutorial or how-to only to find out I need this and that DLC to actually use a lot of the the stuff mentioned. I know KSP won't go that road, but still, finish your product, slap a good price on it and move on.

Besides, don't forget Squad isn't even a game developer, just because KSP got huge doesn't mean they'll do more games.

[klgraham1013]

I have no problem with worthwhile expansion packs, but, as has been said before, I feel that mods have done far more than Squad could do with DLC. I feel it'd be best for Squad to put their effort into KSP2 than on DLC for KSP1.

[Frozen_Heart]

I don't actually mind dlc, as long as its done right. A company needs to continue to generate revenue if they are going to continue to work on the game.

Microtransactions, day one dlc, and already on disk dlc I hate.

For what I'd like to see; things that are outside the scope of the base game.

Colonisation, sci-fi parts, or boat parts would be examples of this.

[RoverDude]

i think ksp can have soooo much DLC's.

even an community mod pack DLC! (if it is gonna be a dlc the mods included won't be available for download of course)

a story DLC is a must in my opinion!

what do you guys think?

And this, boys and girls, is why I release everything I do under a NC license. Play with it, mash it up, have fun with it. Just don't sell it.

[jfull]

I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of colony management DLC

like a somewhat more intuitive and streamlined MKS