Choctofliatrio2.0

Mods in Stock

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I'm very sorry if this is an overused thread, but what kind of mods would you like put into stock game?

Personally, I'd put Kerbal Alarm Clock, and something like Kerbal Engineer with a delta V readout.

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Asteroid day

Better burn time

Realplume

Stock faring tweaker

Stock clamshell fairings

 

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5 minutes ago, Dfthu said:

Asteroid day

Better burn time

Realplume

Stock faring tweaker

Stock clamshell fairings

 

I took a look at some of those mods, they seem really useful. Good suggestions 

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I have B9 Aerospace, KW Rocketry, Kerbal Attachment System (KAS), the Interstellar mod, MechJeb2 (although I hardly use it anymore) Out Planets Pack, Other Worlds Star Pack, SafeChute, Final Frontier (not sure why its named that as it gives badges and ranks to your Kerbals), Infernal Robtics and the necessary dependencies to support the mods. They were all installed using CKAN.

 

I also followed this video on how to make KSP run more reliably. 

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35 minutes ago, Dfthu said:

Asteroid day

Better burn time

Realplume

Stock faring tweaker

Stock clamshell fairings

 

Seriously, why is this not stock? :huh:

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Squad just needs to hurry up and put Asteroid Day into the stock game. You could argue that not everyone wants to do stuff with asteroids, but I think almost every career player would love the extra cash from SENTINEL contracts, and the HECS-2 is incredibly useful.

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KER, Waypoint Manager, and the stabilized physics load from KJR.

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Wow, I did not know  Better burn time  mod, it's amazing and it should be 100% stock

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  • [x] Science! : Science report and check-list

  • Menu Stabilizer : This plug-in will make any part right-click menu freeze its position on the screen in flight when the mouse is above it.

  • Precise Node : Precisely edit your manoeuvre nodes

  • RCS Build Aid : Display thrust and torque forces caused by R.C.S. or engines

  • Resource Details in Tracking Center : This plug-in just shows the resources state of the selected ship in the Tracking Center.

  • Field Experience : Earn experience without recovering on Kerbin!

  • Dated QuickSaves : Adds the current in-game date and time to quick-saves.

  • Trackingstation Ambientlight : Brighten the dark side of planets in the trackingstation

  • ETT - Engineering Tech Tree : A tech tree based on engineering/scientific principles that is challenging to unlock yet fun to play through.

  • Kerbal Joint Reinforcement :  Make vehicles more stable when loading on the launchpad or coming out of timewarp.

  • In game notes / notepad / checklist : A space to put short notes (some form of notepad). The notes are persistent and the interface shows everywhere in the game.

  • Targetron : Target or command vessel from a list of active flights!

  • StageRecovery : Recover Funds from Dropped Stages

  • QuickSearch/QuickScroll : search parts and subassembly on the editor / Mousewheel support in the editor -- And basically all off Malah's Quick mods as actionable option

  • Trajectories : Displays atmospheric trajectory of the vessel, landing site, trajectory after aerobraking, etc.

  • Smart Parts : Smart Parts can trigger action groups, as well as various other functionality such as SAS, lights, stage, or abort at given time from different parameter like altitude, ground presence, fuel level, etc

  • Docking Port Alignment Indicator : The Docking Port Alignment Indicator is designed to help you dock manually, by presenting target alignment and relative position in a clean and intuitive manner.

  • SCANsat : scan the surfaces of planetary bodies to produce various kinds of maps and mine relatively small amounts of sweet, juicy, 110% fresh-squeezed science (in career mode)

  • Kerbal Alarm Clock : allows you to create reminder alarms at future periods to help you manage your flights and not warp past important times

  • CactEye Telescopes Continued : CactEye is a plugin and set of parts that allow for modular orbital telescopes.

  • Tarsier Space Technology : set of parts with enhanced science capability. Space Telescopes, ChemCam, HDDs

  • RealChute Parachute Systems :  complete rework of the stock parachute module to fix a few of it's inconveniences and get more realistic results out of parachutes

  • RLA Stockalike : Part pack to fill in stock niches. Includes 0.625m parts, RCS blocks, Monopropellant engines, , probe cores, SRBs, structural parts and power generation.

  • Orbital Science : Includes thirteen new science parts and seven stock science parts for the Universal Storage Mod are also included

  • Universal Storage : Modular resource and processor parts to build custom service modules -- Very very handy parts

  • Malah's Stock configs : Let you use mode like RemoteTech, Scansat, GPS, etc with only stock parts

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Some others for added immersion:

Chatterer - Kerbals getting talkative! I'll never get bored with it.

Raster Prop Monitor (and the suggested mods it integrate) - it makes possible to play only from IVA. But even if you don't, it's just so cool to look at the instruments from time to time.

PNeCb5i.png

(I have to note that I play KSP on a potato, but didn't see the above impacting performance at all)

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Any mod with 5m parts or larger (probably KW or Space Y), then some of the spaceplane fuselages from B9 (I love their futuristic designs), and maybe an optional extension to the tech tree: Interstellar mod, so that when you advance to the modern tech you can then go into future tech! And to make warp drives actually necessary, other solar systems!

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There are several mods listed here that I really like and always install, but that's not the same as wanting them in stock.  
There's also a few that I'd really not like to have in the core game, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same.  Is there even one mod that everybody would want in stock?

For a lot of mods, I think they're better off left as mods, with the original idea/concept as it is and the original author still getting the credit.  The modding community is part of what makes this game, and as we don't all want the same thing out of KSP this modular system works really well.
So rather than Squad spending time incorporating an existing mod, which probably would entail rewriting some or all of it, rebalancing and re-texturing (at least), I think their focus WRT mods should be improving how the game handles lot of mods and making the life of modders easier (ie better documentation, and a more stable API, or at least more focus on maintaining backward compatibility).  

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These are my must-haves:

  • KER
  • KAC
  • Mechjeb
  • KIS+KAS
  • Planetshine
  • Chatterer
  • USI LS (toggleable)
  • UKS
  • Portrait Stats
  • Waypoint Manager
  • Wider Contracts App

 

There are also a lot of parts packs I use but this is difficult, as my selection represents merely my personal taste and should not be shoved done everyone's throats.

Also, with the vast choice, awesome quality and ease of installation of mods created by the modding community I am perfectly happy to use mods for features that are not stock.

 

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Mechjeb, novapunch, asteroid day, proc fairings (squads "fairings" are a not fairings if you ask me, unfriendly, unduplicatable, confetti) these are an absolute must imho to become stock.

Edited by AlamoVampire

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I'm still pretty new at the game, so I've only installed mods that give me more tools to work with instead of changing the gameplay significantly:

  • Active Texture Management
  • Docking Port Alignment Indicator
  • Enhanced Navball (mostly for the ghosting on prograde/retrograde)
  • Environmental Visual Enhancements (Clouds should really be an option in stock. I've tried uninstalling it several times but Kerbin just looks naked without it now)
  • Kerbal Alarm Clock
  • VOID (delta V info at the very least should be stock. It's so essential for building a decent rocket and there's no reason to have to pull up an Excel spreadsheet in the VAB)
  • WernherChecker (found this by accident, glad I did because it keeps me from forgetting solar panels)

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Contract Window + for the sorting and hiding of contracts that may not apply to the current mission, and a better display of them.

[x] Science: some would rather have ScienceAlert's buttons, so maybe not.

Better Burn Time feels like a bug fix, really. I can't see a reason for it to not be a stock feature. The same goes for Kerbal Joint Reinforcement's physics stabilization.

 

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3 hours ago, katateochi said:

There are several mods listed here that I really like and always install, but that's not the same as wanting them in stock.  
There's also a few that I'd really not like to have in the core game, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same.  Is there even one mod that everybody would want in stock?

For a lot of mods, I think they're better off left as mods...

I strongly agree with this.  "I really like mod X and use it all the time" is not the same thing as "mod X should be stock."

Examples of mods that I love, and use frequently, but which I don't think should be stock (because of their complexity, or evolving nature, or game balance, or what-have-you):  Extraplanetary Launchpads.  RemoteTech.  KAS/KIS.  Karbonite.  TAC-LS.

Examples of mods that are hugely popular, and very well done, but should absolutely not be part of stock because there are lots and lots of people who don't want 'em:  MechJeb, KER, KJR.  I really, really don't want those in my game.  They would go a long way towards ruining KSP for me.  I'm not saying they're bad, just that I don't want them there, and there are a fair number of other people who don't, either.  They're better as mods, so that the portion of the KSP community that likes them can use them, without intruding on the rest of us.

MechJeb is a case in point.  IMO, absolutely, positively should not be stock.  It's a great tool for people who are experts, and can do anything manually, but prefer not to and use it to save themselves hassle.  But if you make it stock, you take away much of the soul of KSP:  learning how to fly rockets.  It's great when used as a convenience; it's a game-balance breaker when it's used as a crutch for someone who can't be bothered to learn how to fly.  So leave it as a mod, and the people who want it can get it.

My bar for something that "should be stock" is:  it adds something to the game, that benefits everyone, that doesn't do anything that a significant number of people would disagree with, and doesn't hurt game balance for anyone.

Certainly there are some mods that I don't think should be stock in their entirety, but contain pieces that are stock-worthy.  For example:

  • KIS/KAS:  Too complex, in its entirety, to be stock. But the connector ports and deployable struts from KAS should be stock.  They're great, simple, elegant, easy-to-use solutions for holes in the game.
  • RemoteTech:  Also too complex for stock.  But a simplified form of telemetry for probes, definitely.  I like what I've heard about what RoverDude is doing with this, it feels like the right direction to me.
  • MechJeb:  not stock, for game-balance reasons.  But it contains tons of really handy code in its internals to do simple, utility-like things (such as "here's orbit 1 and orbit 2, when/where will the closest approach be?" or "what's the angular momentum tensor of this ship?")  I would really like to see a lot of that stuff be brought into the game's API.  It would make life much easier for modders who could take advantage of that code.
  • KJR:  not stock, for game balance reasons.  But I'd like to see better code in the stock game specifically for the launchpad and for entering/exiting timewarp.  The fact that ships aren't rigid is a feature, not a bug, which is why I don't think KJR should be stock... but the glitches that can happen at launch time or when timewarping are a bug and should be fixed.

My short list of mods that I would love to see as stock:

  • PlanetShine.  I mean, really.  Why is this not stock?  It has no impact on gameplay at all, it's totally harmless; but it really adds to the visual experience, in a subtle but lovely way.
  • Outer Planets.  Squad should just hire CaptRobau and put him in charge of solar system development.
  • Navball Docking Alignment Indicator.  (I mean this one, not this one.)  Doesn't add any complex UI, it's really simple, does one very small thing, does it automatically, does it well.
  • ModuleManager.  It's universally used by practically every mod, should just be bundled with the stock game.
  • Kopernicus, for pretty much the same reason as ModuleManager.  It's a must for any custom planet mods.
  • Various small mods that are simple bug fixes, which address behavior that's clearly not Squad's intention (e.g. Claw's stock bug fixes... hopefully the fact that Squad just hired Claw should help with this!)
  • Modesty forbids adding my own BetterBurnTime.  But if someone else suggests it, I won't object.  ;)

 

19 hours ago, federicoaa said:

Wow, I did not know  Better burn time  mod, it's amazing and it should be 100% stock

 

54 minutes ago, Tfin said:

Better Burn Time feels like a bug fix, really. I can't see a reason for it to not be a stock feature.

*blush*  Thanks, guys!  :)

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KER, KAS, Chatterer - i'm not starting new game without those installed, if possible.

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The entirety of Realism Overhaul and RP-0.

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5 hours ago, Snark said:

Examples of mods that are hugely popular, and very well done, but should absolutely not be part of stock because there are lots and lots of people who don't want 'em:  MechJeb, KER, KJR. 

There are people who don't want KER? I understand that current KER is considered by some to be too powerful and a stock implementation could do with a smaller volume of information so as not to overwhelm newbies, but are there really anyone who's against informational readout in KSP in principle?

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1 hour ago, Temstar said:

There are people who don't want KER? I understand that current KER is considered by some to be too powerful and a stock implementation could do with a smaller volume of information so as not to overwhelm newbies, but are there really anyone who's against informational readout in KSP in principle?

Yep.  You're talking to one of 'em.  :)

I recognize that I'm probably in the minority, here.  I also have to say that my opposition to KER-as-stock is a much milder one than my opposition to MechJeb-as-stock.  In the case of MechJeb, it's a matter of principle.  In the case of KER, it's more a matter of design.

KER adds a huge amount of information flow, and it adds a whole lot of UI all over the place.  I really don't like that.  I also think that learning your way around KER isn't something that a player should be forced to do.  One of the things I like about KSP is that it has a very clean, tight UI design, with minimal menus and things getting in the way of just flying the darn rocket ship.  I'm a firm proponent of the "less is more" school of thought when it comes to game UI.  Doing more with less is elegant.

As a software engineer, I go to my job every day with the mantra that code is bad, and less code is better.  Every line of code I write, I am inflicting on a blameless world, and so I should dole out lines of code grudgingly.  And for UI design, that goes doubly.

That's why I absolutely adore this docking alignment mod, but don't really like that docking alignment mod.  The former adds practically no UI:  not one extra pixel of real estate gets added, just a little icon on the navball that dovetails nicely with the meaning of the other icons, and even that much is present only when it needs to be.  Not a single keystroke or button press is needed from the user to make it work; it just goes about its business effectively, and above all, quietly.  I don't like the latter mod, not because it's done poorly (it isn't), but because it has UI.

So that's why I don't think KER should be stock.

Personally, I prefer having no dV readout at all in the game, because I like pulling out my calculator and working it out by hand, and it gives me more of a sense of accomplishment when a rocket does what I designed it to do.  Handing me a dV readout on a silver platter would be a bit of a letdown for me.  However, I know I'm a physics nerd and probably in the small minority of KSP players, so it's not something that I rant about in the forums.  If Squad were to introduce some form of additional information display (for example, a very small, understated dV number next to each stage in the staging display), then I expect I'd just swallow it uncomplainingly and move on.

But I'll tell you what I really don't want, and would rant about if it happened:

  • Big complicated UI = bad.  I don't want pop-up dialogs and lots of info display.  It takes away from the central attraction, which is the rockets themselves.
  • Don't produce something misleading.  It's better to present no information at all than to present information that's misleading.

I occasionally see posts from people in the forums who are getting confused because they're overdependent on KER, and something about their rocket design has confused KER, and it's giving them numbers that make no sense, and they're helpless.  Showing accurate dV numbers can be hard, precisely because KSP has so much flexibility in ship design that it's surprisingly difficult to produce something that's even as simple as a dV readout that's guaranteed never to get confused under any circumstances.  As soon as you present information, people take it as gospel and then get very confused (and angry) when it turns out to be wrong.

So that's the other potential stumbling block to KER-as-stock.  I suspect it would be very hard to pull off, at least at the sort of quality-and-reliability bar that a stock feature has to have.

 

Edited by Snark
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Never thought about it like that Snark. I've wanted a Delta V readout, but never honestly needed it, since I never do anything with a tight fuel budget. But I see where you're coming from on the UI thing. Games that overwhelm you with information right off the bat are pretty unappealing to me.

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12 minutes ago, Snark said:

So that's the other potential stumbling block to KER-as-stock.  I suspect it would be very hard to pull off, at least at the sort of quality-and-reliability bar that a stock feature has to have.

I don't know if that bar is actually all that high. Case in point the default staging order, We all know the default staging order the game generate is rubbish and you pretty much always need to manually sort the order out. But would it make KSP a better game if the game just didn't bother at all and gave you all your staging actions on a "scribble letter holder" when you build a rocket and ask you to put them in the correct order one by one?

I feel a stock TWR and delta-V calculation in VAB/SPH and KER's default HUD (the thing KEP puts on either side of your altitude meter) in is probably what stock needs. The HUD can do without the biome and true altitude above terrain. But having something there, even if it's occasionally wrong is probably beneficial to the game than having nothing at all.

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If it came down to either mechjeb or ker becoming stock, mechjeb is the superior and ONLY choice. There is nothing ker can do that mechjeb cant. The thing is mechjeb also has automation, which ker lacks. Mechjeb when it comes down to it is able to service a broader base with more function than ker. Sorry for the reality of it.

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1 minute ago, AlamoVampire said:

The thing is mechjeb also has automation

And that's precisely the reason why I wouldn't want it in stock.

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