Orbital Ion Drive Challenge

[Joseph Kerman]

Welcome, KSC greets you a very good welcome. At mission control, they got a very unusual contract. It said that they must make a spacecraft powered solely by the "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System and send it to Kerbol Orbit.

Rules

-You must use the "Dawn" Ion Engine as the primary powerhouse.

-SRB's may be used for initial boost and for Kerbin orbit where the challenge starts.

    *Alternatively, you may use the Debug to get to your desired orbital altitude.

        *If you you use the Debug to get you in Kerbol Orbit, you are out.

-You may not use NERV Nuclear engines at all.

 

Tips

- By using the Offset tool, you can "stack" ion engines within each other.

- Using RTG's is not very recommended, but if you use them most often, what can I do?

- If you are not the resourceful type and put insufficient batteries and Xenon, try using the Infinite Propellant option.

 

Requirements

 

-It needs to be light if you want to accelerate fast.

-It mustn't reach a total overall cost of 900,000 in Funds.

-The craft in question mustn't be larger than thrice Kerbal 2's size.

-Minimum acceleration of 0.8 m/s². Any slower cannot enter the challenge.

-Screenshots of the craft on Launhpad or Runway, orbiting Kerbin, and then Kerbol.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Joseph Kerman Stalin

[Streetwind]

...ummm. Forgive me for asking, but how is this a challenge? o_O

Consider the following craft, which I threw together in five minutes in notepad, without even having access to the game:

Z-200 Battery     0.010 t      360 funds
HECS probe core   0.100 t      650 funds
Dawn engine       0.250 t     8000 funds
Communotron-16    0.005 t      300 funds
4x OX-4L panels   0.070 t     1520 funds
2x PB-X50R tank   0.142 t     4400 funds
----------------------------------------
Total             0.577 t    15230 funds

Some 3.4 m/s² initial acceleration, nearly 6,150 m/s delta-V. Strap this on top of a Thumper, and it can not only go into solar orbit - it could go to Moho. For a total mass of less than 8.5 tons and around 16,000 funds. (Okay, it would lose comms long before getting there, but I think my point is made. )

Did you accidentally forget to write down the specific thing that makes this hard? Did you maybe mean low solar orbit?

Also, have you taken a look at the Challenge Submission Guide? People generally expect some sort of scoring system, so they can compete for the best solution to the problem.

[Snark]

6 hours ago, Joseph Kerman Stalin said:

-You must use the "Dawn" Ion Engine as the primary powerhouse.

-SRB's may be used for initial boost and for Kerbin orbit where the challenge starts.

^ Just to add to @Streetwind's comment above:   There's also some vagueness here.  What do you mean by "primary" powerhouse?

It's pretty easy (bordering on trivial) to build a craft that goes to Kerbol orbit (i.e. escapes Kerbin's SoI) using only SRBs.  So if players are allowed to use SRBs, why do they even need the Dawn in the first place?

Suggest refining the rules to make them, 1. challenging (without being impossible), and 2. unambiguous.

[Hypercosmic]

Well, this contract is extremely easy. Ion propulsion is very, very efficient and provides a lot of delta-v.

Just let me mod my favorite MPD and nuclear reactor from Children of a Dead Earth, and I can go anywhere in the Kerbol system without problem.

[Joseph Kerman]

17 hours ago, Snark said:

^ Just to add to @Streetwind's comment above:   There's also some vagueness here.  What do you mean by "primary" powerhouse?

It's pretty easy (bordering on trivial) to build a craft that goes to Kerbol orbit (i.e. escapes Kerbin's SoI) using only SRBs.  So if players are allowed to use SRBs, why do they even need the Dawn in the first place?

Suggest refining the rules to make them, 1. challenging (without being impossible), and 2. unambiguous.

The primary powerhouse is the main engine. SRB's are for boosting, not as the main thrust.

17 hours ago, Hypercosmic said:

Well, this contract is extremely easy. Ion propulsion is very, very efficient and provides a lot of delta-v.

Just let me mod my favorite MPD and nuclear reactor from Children of a Dead Earth, and I can go anywhere in the Kerbol system without problem.

Oh yeah, only Ion engines.

 

22 hours ago, Streetwind said:

...ummm. Forgive me for asking, but how is this a challenge? o_O

Consider the following craft, which I threw together in five minutes in notepad, without even having access to the game:

Z-200 Battery     0.010 t      360 funds
HECS probe core   0.100 t      650 funds
Dawn engine       0.250 t     8000 funds
Communotron-16    0.005 t      300 funds
4x OX-4L panels   0.070 t     1520 funds
2x PB-X50R tank   0.142 t     4400 funds
----------------------------------------
Total             0.577 t    15230 funds

Some 3.4 m/s² initial acceleration, nearly 6,150 m/s delta-V. Strap this on top of a Thumper, and it can not only go into solar orbit - it could go to Moho. For a total mass of less than 8.5 tons and around 16,000 funds. (Okay, it would lose comms long before getting there, but I think my point is made. )

Did you accidentally forget to write down the specific thing that makes this hard? Did you maybe mean low solar orbit?

Also, have you taken a look at the Challenge Submission Guide? People generally expect some sort of scoring system, so they can compete for the best solution to the problem.

I think I put too much incentive. To achieve low Kerbol orbit is a good suggestion. 

If you use SRB's, infinite propellant is disallowed as you cannot control solid fuel burn.

[Hypercosmic]

44 minutes ago, Joseph Kerman Stalin said:

Oh yeah, only Ion engines..

How is magnetoplasmadynamic thruster not ion engines?

[Streetwind]

15 minutes ago, Hypercosmic said:

How is magnetoplasmadynamic thruster not ion engines?

I'm pretty sure what he really means to say is "use the stock Dawn engine".

[Hypercosmic]

42 minutes ago, Streetwind said:

I'm pretty sure what he really means to say is "use the stock Dawn engine".

Yep, and I got 13 km/s from my own probe. Jool is near.

Adding science stuffs, it went down to 12 km/s.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Hypercosmic

[Snark]

4 hours ago, Joseph Kerman Stalin said:

The primary powerhouse is the main engine. SRB's are for boosting, not as the main thrust.

Yes, I understand that "primary" is a synonym for "main", thanks.

However, you're missing my point.  Replacing one vague, subjective word with another vague, subjective, equivalent word doesn't really accomplish anything. What do you actually mean? Be specific.

People doing a challenge need specifically stated, objective rules to follow, lest they put in a bunch of effort to do the challenge and then get embroiled in a hand-wavy argument over the meaning of a subjective term.

4 hours ago, Joseph Kerman Stalin said:

To achieve low Kerbol orbit is a good suggestion.

This seems like a good idea. Again, though, "low" is subjective.  Suggestion:

• Update the OP to reflect this requirement
• Make it specific what "low Kerbol orbit" means (e.g. "Pe no higher than <some height>, Ap no higher than <some height>").

Or you can leave it open-ended and let the lowness of the orbit be the "score", i.e. "the goal is to get the smallest possible semimajor axis for your Kerbol orbit, with a ship meeting all the conditions specified here."

 

On 3/28/2017 at 1:07 AM, Joseph Kerman Stalin said:

-The craft in question mustn't be larger than thrice Kerbal 2's size.

"Size" is vague, too.  Do you mean mass?  Length?  Maximum dimension on any axis?  Also, size changes over time as stages are ejected.  Size when?  On the launchpad?  In LKO?  In low Kerbol orbit?

Also, not everyone will know what "Kerbal 2" means.  Better to use actual numbers.

Suggestion:  Just keep it simple and unambiguous, such as "mustn't be larger than N tons on the launch pad".

 

[Rath]

Kerbal 2 is a stock vessel.

[Snark]

8 hours ago, Rath said:

Kerbal 2 is a stock vessel.

Yes, but not everyone who reads the challenge is necessarily going to know that.  And even if they know it, it's a pretty inconvenient way to specify things-- for example, I have "include stock vessels" turned off for all of my games, and always have, since buying the game-- to me, they're just useless clutter in the VAB.  So to look at one I'd have to go tinker with my game settings so that I can load it up.  And there's still the ambiguity about what "size" means.

[Rath]

10 hours ago, Snark said:

Yes, but not everyone who reads the challenge is necessarily going to know that.  And even if they know it, it's a pretty inconvenient way to specify things-- for example, I have "include stock vessels" turned off for all of my games, and always have, since buying the game-- to me, they're just useless clutter in the VAB.  So to look at one I'd have to go tinker with my game settings so that I can load it up.  And there's still the ambiguity about what "size" means.

I agree with you on that (especially that stock vessels don't belong in my craft list), I was just saying that we at least could get an actual measurement from that.

[Snark]

12 hours ago, Rath said:

I was just saying that we at least could get an actual measurement from that.

We could, if we had any idea what "size" means, here.  Unfortunately, that's a very ambiguous word in this context, as I discuss in my earlier post, above.

[Cunjo Carl]

No one's exactly sure why Doodman Kerman decided to ride his twin-dawn dragster to interplanetary space, but they always look up to the sky with misty eyes when they talk about it. They say he left the ground with the sound of thunder, and that his rocket glanced through the sky like an arrow from a bow. They say he used a windscreen of his own design to abate the flames for just the sparest few moments they'd be lethal, and otherwise basked in the heat with a gentle smile. Wreathed in fire, he rose. And at 3.2m/s he rode the twin-dawn dragster into space

They say he passed by the Mun as little more than a blink, smiling and accelerating all the way.

'They', of course, being Doodman himself. In his levity he left Kerbin going the wrong direction and wound up back here only a year later!

And as he tells it, the trip was worth every minute.

Doodman's Drive

 

Welcome to the forums, @Joseph Kerman! My first challenge didn't really takeoff either . I'm still working on it though!  For this, something about going straight from SRBs to dawns really spoke to me! It was a fun drive, thanks for the challenge. Hope to see you 'round.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Cunjo Carl

[Martian Emigrant]

Hi @Joseph Kerman.

 

I am trying to get my head around this and I am having a hard time.

So we need to

• make a "Small" (Clipping allowed) craft.
• achieve Kerbin escape speed.
• have over 0.8 m1s^2
• Something I missed?

My current questions are:

What is: "Thrice Kerbal 2's size"?

Someone mentionned Com....You didn't. Does it have to be a "Probe" that communicates?

Does it have to sustain 0.8 m/s^2? I could dump the extra engines after a 1 sec demonstration.

 

ME

[Joseph Kerman]

5 minutes ago, Martian Emigrant said:

Hi @Joseph Kerman.

 

I am trying to get my head around this and I am having a hard time.

So we need to

• make a "Small" (Clipping allowed) craft.
• achieve Kerbin escape speed.
• have over 0.8 m1s^2
• Something I missed?

My current questions are:

What is: "Thrice Kerbal 2's size"?

Someone mentionned Com....You didn't. Does it have to be a "Probe" that communicates?

Does it have to sustain 0.8 m/s^2? I could dump the extra engines after a 1 sec demonstration.

 

ME

Sustain.

Also, you must make it no larger than 3x the size of the Kerbal 2 rocket.

[Martian Emigrant]

25 minutes ago, Joseph Kerman said:

Sustain.

Also, you must make it no larger than 3x the size of the Kerbal 2 rocket.

Sorry to be Daf but "Kerbal 2 rocket" is that a one of those "Standard Rockets" that comes with the game?

I deleted them as I found them all to be useless.

Can I get a size (Volume or MxMxM) in Metres? Orbit or Launch pad size? Does it include the span of the solar panels?

 

ME

Edited April 4, 2017 by Martian Emigrant

[Joseph Kerman]

6 hours ago, Martian Emigrant said:

Sorry to be Daf but "Kerbal 2 rocket" is that a one of those "Standard Rockets" that comes with the game?

I deleted them as I found them all to be useless.

Can I get a size (Volume or MxMxM) in Metres? Orbit or Launch pad size? Does it include the span of the solar panels?

 

ME

 

8.5m x 4.8m x 4.2

Edited April 4, 2017 by Joseph Kerman

[Slam_Jones]

On 4/4/2017 at 4:49 PM, Joseph Kerman said:

 

8.5m x 4.8m x 4.2

Is that the size of the 'Kerbal 2' or is that the maximum allowed size?

[Joseph Kerman]

Size of Kerbal 2.