AloE

I definitely endorse this topic as I am never without KEX-EVAFootprints-1.7.1-5.zip, (also in its .cfg you can specify the # of prints allowed to spawn) & recommend it for use with students (e.g. KerbalEDU) ...in my experience boot prints are especially meaningful to young exploring minds... Boot prints recommended (especially for KerbalEDU) Since I also often use Destruction Effects as well) I personally would like the tire tracks & ship parts/debris impacts at least leaving some kind of impact mark as already suggested in this thread...& I like the idea of having such marks persist longer & erode away over time as needed to maintain performance...preferably with a slider in 'settings' since i would like to make them to persist a very long time on minimal atmosphere surfaces like Mun or RSS Earth's moon while exploring for sites to build colonies & initial early days of colony construction...especially if KSP2 managed to pull off Space Engine like textures similar to what is shown in the KSP2 'cinematic trailer' :-)

Your work is beautiful & the conversations in your prior threads attend to dynamics & features of interest to me about such exoplanet systems. Consequently, I would be delighted to experience your work with well calculated n-body gravitation models based on observed transit data which resulted in the suggestion I proposed. The less direct path I proposed regarding TRAPPIST1 emerged from my not knowing if the mathematical aspects of these systems were an aspect upon which you were interested to spend time. The numerics blueprint & gravity model optimization of Trappist-1 for Principia may be covered by the Principia MIT release license, if so it would be a rather direct way to experience your work in a well built n-body model without your needing to take time on such calculations. The Principia team's integrator calculation in their initial release for TRAPPIST1 did not adequately capture the observed transit timings for 1b, if numbers are of interest to you for your other systems, especially M stars with short orbital period planets, then the brief discussion about the correction at GIThub might be of interest to you. The integrator corrections were included in Principia starting with the release Εὔδοξος A potentially related example is that for Principia with RSS, similar short period orbits like with Io & Europa appear to experience a drift slightly from other prediction methods rather visibility by approx. a decade into the future for example with the triple shadow transits in 2032 Kind regards, Chadwick

cloned the KerBalloons source, made the edit you recommended, built the dll, flew a high balloon with Principia (TRAPPIST1) ;-) Thanks so much! KerBalloons with Principia

have you checked out the induction heating concept (link goes to a list of paper links...see especially (2017) Magma oceans and enhanced volcanism on TRAPPIST-1 planets due to induction heating: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1710.08761.pdf in close packed systems like around M stars? Enjoy! That would be awesome...but my understanding is that Principia (or at least some limit in KSP numerical coordinate space {EDIT: regarding Principia's mathematical n-body integrations]) , at least in the past, has not been able to handle multiple solar systems...has that changed? if so, your concept is obviously better ;-) Thanks!

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mind clarifying for me? My thinking is that since Principia created a remarkable n-body gravitation model for TRAPPIST1, their work makes a good platform for anyone who spends effort on making textures & atmosphere curves to have a simple MM patch .cfg file to swap in their textures & atm curves, sol luminosity,...especially since research involving the TRAPPIST1 system is likely to continue for several more decades so ideas about what these planets will continue to change... For mod creators with that in mind...using the celestial body sizes/parameters defined in TRAPPIST1 for Principia would make such a patch relatively easy to make...Principia's patch is already such a folder where they patch the very thoughtful work of SLIPPIST1...the idea I am proposing is an additional folder with the textures & .cfg file that ModuleManager would then patch over SLIPPIST1 & Principia. In other words the patch is a small separate folder that can be dropped in to a GameData folder a user has already setup to run TRAPPIST1 for Principia (just like we already drop in Principia's patch folder to convert SLIPPIST1 to TRAPPIST1 n-body). So it is just a separate small 'TRAPPIST1 study folder' that would enable me & anyone else to easily see specifically your TRAPPIST1 work in the Principia n-body model system. One objective being to help facilitate exploration of the TRAPPIST1 system in particular for those of us interested in that topic,. I personally would also have another separate GameData folder setup with your great exoplanet mod concept here so I could view your other work on other systems. Anycase, just an idea for you since you seem to have some nice work going on here :-) Thanks!

They also float with FARc on Kerbin & on SLIPPIST1-echo :-) Kerbin KerBalloons FARc KerbalEDU 1.4.5 Nanosat Launched into Orbit via Rockoon & the following would be amazing! So, from the contents of the spoiler you may have gathered that I have much of the code to accomplish what you describe and I believe it to be reasonably accurate. Eventually moving this to KerBalloons will take a bit of effort. The goal will be to mostly keep the same part design and functionality while replacing the lifting mechanism with the code I have now. That will be fun. The Unity engine itself has gobs of capabilities, from simulating weather and waves to cloth blowing in the breeze. The question is, whether KSP employs those capabilities and how taxing it would be on the engine to try to overlay those features on top of the KSP code...<snip>. the closed alpha testing I'll be conducting for the airships (something I normally do very quietly for contributors). That way, I have at least one expert on the subject to double check my work. As such, you'll have full access to the code to make any changes, suggestions or corrections you see fit to keep the physics real. Once the airship mod is up and out the door, then I'll be focusing on getting KerBalloons using the same code.

that is very helpful...made the delimiter changes last night & indeed no MM errors anymore with 4.0.3. Thanks!

[EDIT: the recommended change (see for example pull request for v0.4.3) does make KerBalloons version 0.4.3 & 0.4.4 work with Principia, however the cool data recorder, sundial, cross staff were added in 0.4.4 so that code is not currently available via GitHub which currently has only version 0.4.3)] this.part.Rigidbody.AddForceAtPosition(vessel.upAxis * becomes... this.part.AddForceAtPosition(vessel.upAxis *

@Fengist since you are more familiar with this mod than I am & have the blessing of the original creator, would you be willing to make the following change to enable compatibility with Principia? KerBalloon is an awesome mod & having it work in the Principia TRAPPIST1 system (as well as in RSS & Kerbin systems with Principia) would be excellent! Please let me know either way. Thanks!

@pleroy Is there a way I could make KerBalloons v0.4.4 balloon craft 'work' or be excluded from Principia? I really would like to use them especially in the TRAPPIST1 system which obviously requires Principia. The Balloons work OK in SLIPPIST1 (& Kerbin) but just bounce on the launchpad when I add Principia (I think is because KerBalloons.dll controls their in-flight characteristics including ascent rate, etc thus conflicts with Principia...but maybe that really is no different than autopilot of an engine?) Currently I am mostly still using Principia Fatou since that is the last support for KerbalEDU 1.4.5 since TeacherGaming has not yet updated KerbalEDU...I very much appreciate your thoughts.

Science Balloons or Rockoons! Build & Launch into orbit a nanosat via Rockoon like student founded Leo Aerospace, LLC (see images & links further below :-) Using the KSP mod KerBalloons ReInflated. & Phoenix Industries ³Sat (CubeSat mod) (v2.2, compatible with TweakScale and MechJeb) for making Kerkoons...errr...Rockoons & still works in KerbalEDU 1.4.5 Reminder, the KerBalloon.dll needs to be rebuilt to work with Principia, if you are also using Principia: & log atmosphere T & pressure & density curves & compare to Earth, Venus, Titan, Jupiter, etc...KerBalloons also float with FARcontinued & KerbalWind...note the change in forces when using FARc... The following timelapse (select 1080p resolution) video shows an example plotting Pressure & Temperature (by time...use the KerBalloons data recorder or export the KerbalEDU Flight Recorder data to plot by altitude) of Kerbin's stock atmosphere... then add OhioBob's Realistic Atmospheres, fly again & compare Temp & Pressure data. & also here is a link to an insightful KSP thread with in depth discussion of atmospheres & airships: "A study regarding the feasibility of airships using real-world physics within the scope of KSP" By @Fengist Leo AeroSpace, LLC by Students (text & images link to original www sources): & about that garlic bread...;-) Enjoy exploring!

@eggrobin @GregroxMun this looks like it explains the strange temp, etc readings I have been seeing...the Principia TRAPPIST1 patch appears to not be fully applied to SLIPPIST1...I'll clean the tabs out of the keys in my copy of the SLIPPIST1 0.8.0 configs at least for 1e, switch to MM 4.0.3 & see if my flight recorder plots look better...thanks all!

ok good was hoping it may be related to delimiters...I'll try converting things to spaces & see if the errors go away. Is there a post/document you recommend that describes delimiter conventions? The main reference I am using to get more familiar with MM/KSP configs is the Primer & its associated links. I welcome your recommendation of link(s) to other information dense documents relevant to MM 4.0.3 Thanks!

@GregroxMun I have identified that it is planets 1g & 1h that create the error spam that terribly slows things down when they are in view when using EVE. with version 0.8.0 the error given has a different name than my prior post with 0.6.0 pasted above...I would greatly appreciate your insights as to what I should look for in the configs for 1g & 1h that could cause KSP/EVE to throw such an exception...i would very much like to use EVE with your mod! EDIT update: it seems to be related to EVE shadows & handling of caster settings for 1f, 1g & 1h... for TRAPPIST1the exception is not thrown when I remove caster information for 1g & 1h from the SLIPPIST1 "shadows.cfg" & also from "trappist_gravity_model_slippist1.cfg" ... but for SLIPPIST1 1g also appears to be affected & the exception thrown for 1g is "Object reference not set to an instance of an object" I would appreciate your ideas as to what in the caster configs might cause "IndexOutOfRange" exception type problem for 1g & 1h (& also 1f in default SLIPPIST1) Here is the specific error name in 0.8.0 (KSP 1.4.5 EDU in my case) that spams the console & a link to an album with the video screen record that identifies that it is only caused when planets 1g & 1h are 'in view' = can be below the horizon & cause the error spam: (which only occurs if EVE is loaded, which is why I have kept it out of my GameData folder for now...) link to album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/wcBH3gUvgcGrwtxA6 TRAPPIST1: SLIPPIST1: Thanks!

Thanks :-) & what has caused issues with Scatterer in 1.7.3? will fixing it there break it in 1.4.5...scatterer seems to behave in SLIPIST1 in 1.4.5 with sun flares & planet dark sides & atm haze...(thought not so well in TRAPPIST1 with lakes & oceans which show as 'black-ish' which I suspect is likely due to the scaling factor) ...the dominant factor I've noticed so far seems to be (I assume) the luminosity adjustment(s) made in 0.8.0)? (TRAPPIST1 appears much brighter now from 1e...not able to see planet transits anymore from the Space Center...which brings up the interesting question as to if planet transits across TRAPPIST1 would actually be visible to the unaided human eye standing below a minimal cloud atmosphere on 1e, 1f, 1g, 1h.) SLIPPIST1 0.8.0 & TRAPPIST1 EVE Scatterer KerbalEDU 1.4.5 Here is a crude Pressure (pink line & right side scale in kPa (it says atm but it is actually in kPa) by Altitude (and other ship factors) plot for 0.8.0 Principia TRAPPIST 1e BEFORE the MM TAB to Space correction...but T stayed constant again after the correction...so I will need to investigate further...vacuum at 165km and very thin by 115km so my speculative guess is that @eggrobin set the multiplier to achieve that ~160km (similar to minimum LEO) result... I have been continuing to ponder various models for environmental conditions in a M star solar system like Trappist1 system starting from the concepts in your astronomy lesson & reading OhioBob's work...I posted some of the links to data/concepts of related published articles I have found and been reading through at this link. Would be happy to hear on discord the various insights you included in your atm models so far (since your astronomy lesson for example does not describe choice of T curves etc...) !

SLIPPIST1 0.8.0 converted to TRAPPIST1 using the trappist-1 for principia fáry.zip configs appears to be working reasonably well in KerbalEDU 1.4.5 with the awareness that overtime atmosphere models can be improved...for example T at least on 1e appears to be not changing with altitude: (or Bob Kerman broke the T sensors ;-) As more data gets published, I am thinking about what new atmosphere models might be useful to explore patched into Principia TRAPPIST1. Many questions about approximations to make for M stars since humans have the most planet/moon climate & atm data from our G star solar system as @OhioBob makes clear in the remarkable discussion/tutorial: "Make your own Atmospheres for KSP" (model calculator spreadsheets) "Modeling Atmospheres in KSP" (discussion/tutorial) other solar constants TRAPPIST-I b, c, d, e, f, g, h data Kyoto Univ. summary Earth, Venus, Mars Atmospheres The Atmosphere of Mars NASA Mars atmosphere model (2019) "The Detectability and Characterization of the TRAPPIST-1 Exoplanet Atmospheres with JWST" Lustig-Yaeger et al. (2018) "LIMITS ON CLOUDS AND HAZES FOR THE TRAPPIST-1 PLANETS" Moran et al. (2018) "Disentangling the planet from the star in late type M dwarfs: A case study of TRAPPIST-1g" Wakeford et al. (2018) "ALBEDOS, EQUILIBRIUM TEMPERATURES, AND SURFACE TEMPERATURES OF HABITABLE PLANETS" Del Genio1 et al. (2019) "ESA white paper: Detecting life outside our solar system with a large high-contrast-imaging mission" (2017) "Assessing the Habitability of the TRAPPIST-1 System Using a 3D Climate Model." Eric T. Wolf (2017) "Comparative Climates of TRAPPIST-1 planetary system: results from a simple climate-vegetation model" Alberti et al. (2017) ""PLANET-PLANET OCCULTATIONS IN TRAPPIST-1 AND OTHER EXOPLANET SYSTEMS" Luger et al.

sounds (& looks) good :-) Might you consider one form you release being a .cfg file for atm & textures Kopernicus patch for SLIPPIST1 --> TRAPPIST1 for Principia? ...being able to compare different planet atm & texture models in the Principia n body model of the TRAPPIST1 system would be insightful & fun. In case you find it useful, I tend to post links to relevant TRAPPIST1 publications at KerbalEDU Exploration of TRAPPIST-1 since, for my own edification & given the challenges of limited information for M star climate modeling, overtime I plan to tinker with OhioBob's atmosphere spreadsheets as more data gets published especially if JWST successfully deploys since TRAPPIST1 for Principia currently simply upscales SLIPPIST1 atm models by a multiplication factor (since Principia team's changes focus on their great n body model of the system anyway...not the textures, atmospheres, etc...)...

things seem to be applied ok in KSP 1.4.5 (i.e. atm seem to be present with expected parameters) with MM 4.0.2 with TRAPIST1 for Principia adjustments to SLIPPIST1, but with MM 4.0.3 I am seeing the following type of 'maths' error for the x2 multiplication that Principia's configs do to the atm curves defined for kopernicus in SLIPPIST1 configs: the full logs for the loads with MM 4.0.2 and MM 4.0.3 are located in the folders at this google drive link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mWnOI6lPHlbHVEvrHMrasqK9efZEldKw?usp=sharing [LOG 23:10:57.106] Applying update SLIPPIST-1/Scatterer/Sunflares/Sun/@Scatterer_sunflare:HAS[@SlippistSettings:HAS[#SystemPlacement[Home]]]:AFTER[aSLIPPIST-1] to scatterer/config/Sunflares/Sun.cfg/Scatterer_sunflare [LOG 23:10:57.107] Applying update Trappist-1 for Principia/trappist_gravity_model_slippist1/@Kopernicus:AFTER[aSLIPPIST-1] to Kopernicus/Config/System.cfg/Kopernicus[Kerbol System] [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @temperatureCurve : original value="0 1446 0.00000E+00 -2.92000E-02" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @temperatureCurve : original value="5000 1300 -2.92000E-02 -2.66667E-02" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @temperatureCurve : original value="20000 900 -2.66667E-02 -5.00000E-03" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @temperatureCurve : original value="30000 850 -5.00000E-03 -1.50000E-02" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @temperatureCurve : original value="40000 700 -1.50000E-02 -1.25000E-03" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @temperatureCurve : original value="120000 600 -1.25000E-03 -6.14754E-05" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @temperatureCurve : original value="5000000 300 -6.14754E-05 0.00000E+00" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @temperatureSunMultCurve : original value="0 1 0.00000E+00 -6.00000E-05" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @temperatureSunMultCurve : original value="20000 -0.2 -6.00000E-05 1.33333E-05" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @temperatureSunMultCurve : original value="50000 0.2 1.33333E-05 0.00000E+00" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @temperatureSunMultCurve : original value="60000 0.2 0.00000E+00 0.00000E+00" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @temperatureSunMultCurve : original value="240000 0.2 0.00000E+00 0.00000E+00" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @pressureCurve : original value="0 1.51988E+03 0.00000E+00 -2.15362E-02" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @pressureCurve : original value="23000 9.92660E+02 -2.29651E-02 -2.29651E-02" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.110] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @pressureCurve : original value="45000 5.59191E+02 -1.63286E-02 -1.63286E-02" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.111] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @pressureCurve : original value="68000 2.82573E+02 -8.53220E-03 -8.53220E-03" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.111] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @pressureCurve : original value="90000 1.43778E+02 -4.49386E-03 -4.49386E-03" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.111] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @pressureCurve : original value="113000 6.91151E+01 -2.24416E-03 -2.24416E-03" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.111] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @pressureCurve : original value="135000 3.36220E+01 -1.10095E-03 -1.10095E-03" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.111] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @pressureCurve : original value="157000 1.63922E+01 -5.33946E-04 -5.33946E-04" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.111] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @pressureCurve : original value="180000 7.76632E+00 -2.51595E-04 -2.51595E-04" operator=Multiply mod value="2" [ERR 23:10:57.111] Error - Failed to do a maths replacement: @pressureCurve : original value="202000 3.81545E+00 -1.22964E-04 -1.22964E-04" operator=Multiply mod value="2" ... I am grateful for any insights on what might be causing this with MM 4.0.3. Thanks! & Kind regards.

Thanks! 0.8.0 loads nicely in 1.7.3, however even more significantly it also resolves my previously posted issue with 0.7.x & 0.8.0 mjow loads well as TRAPPIST1 in 1.4.5 using MM 4.0.2 (MM 4.0.3 is throwing errors with the Principia x2 atm curves up scaling) Kopernicus backports & Principia Fatou (the last version for 1.4.5) & trappist-1 for principia fáry.zip (& RO & Scatterer, etc...-) The lighting adjustments are definitely different in the new version (especially since scatterer settings are still applied in 1.4.5) ! I'll check in the Principia version to see if 1e has about 895 (W/m2) Star Radiation at Atmospheric Boundary (& try to plot pressure & T & altitude using the KerbalEDU flight recorder with the still missing [EDIT: now fixed for next release] close bracket added to the echo.cfg so the 1e atm curves replace the Kerbin ones) ;-)

EDIT: I found that LGG has adopted & re-released this at the following link: @linuxgurugamer thanks for bringing this to my attention...did you get this to work in 1.4.5 or later KSP...I am not sure what DLLs to remove to prevent KSP from crashing (e.g. Unity, Mono, Assembly...) or given the source folder in the zip does this need to be compiled? Thanks!

I vote to wait for KerbalEDU to be updated for 1.7.2 (or later) = TeacherGaming to skip all other versions since 1.4.5 ;-)

I totally endorse the being outdoors (whether doorstep or open spaces :-) Thanks very much for the update on your effort investigating it & even considering taking another look at it in the winter!

TRAPPIST-1 tides & your neighbor's kitchen Induction cooktop... while pondering some articles: (2019) The Largest Alien Planet of TRAPPIST-1 Has an Atmosphere That Evolved Over Eons: https://www.space.com/43093-trappist-1-largest-exoplanet-evolving-atmosphere.html "The low-mass M dwarfs can boast clouds and even water vapor in their atmospheres, much like the largest planets. These molecules can create false signals for astronomers trying to study the atmospheres of the worlds orbiting them." (Nov 2018) Disentangling the planet from the star in late type M dwarfs: A case study of TRAPPIST-1g: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1811.04877.pdf (2008) The Color of Plants on Other Worlds: https://www.ebscohost.com/uploads/imported/thisTopic-dbTopic-1033.pdf (2017) Magma oceans and enhanced volcanism on TRAPPIST-1 planets due to induction heating: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1710.08761.pdf (2018) Implications of tides for life on exoplanets: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1707.04594.pdf (2017) The nature of the TRAPPIST-1 exoplanets: https://www.eso.org/public/archives/releases/sciencepapers/eso1805/eso1805a.pdf (2019) Ancient Ocean Tides on Venus Turned the Planet into Hell @AnTREXon I re-read @GregroxMun's great astronomy lesson (link) to reflect more about the atmospheres & dynamics of the TRAPPIST-1 system & the adjustments made for KSP & Created a screenshot album of the view & specs of the planets in KerbalEDU 1.4.5 alongside the lesson for quick comparison:

at least for version 1.2.2 @Booots indicated in the release "Still no FAR support, just a little more work to do."