Cydonian Monk

Forgotten Space Program

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On 12/2/2018 at 8:59 PM, Cydonian Monk said:

monks of "The Order of the Kerbin World-Firsts Record-Keeping Society."

Ok... I just got who the monks where after re-reading this whole series... *facepalm* dang I did good figuring that out now...

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May be completely unrelated, but who would play a community game/succession game based on this premise?

Take the persistence file, play for 2 years or so, then wipe everything on Kerbin back to original (vehicles, kerbs, funds... everything) and pass it to the next guy?

See how far we can collectively get in 2 year spurts.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

May be completely unrelated, but who would play a community game/succession game based on this premise?

Take the persistence file, play for 2 years or so, then wipe everything on Kerbin back to original (vehicles, kerbs, funds... everything) and pass it to the next guy?

Could be even better now with the logic used for "unowned" objects such as rescue/recover contracts and asteroids. You could tweak everything in orbit or off-Kerbin such that it's not owned by the player, and thus not controllable until you dock and/or rendezvous with it.

Had that concept worked back when I started this I would have gone that route instead of making everything debris. At the time it was super glitchy though.

Edited by Cydonian Monk

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

Could be even better now with the logic used for "unowned" objects such as rescue/recover contracts and asteroids. You could tweak everything in orbit or off-Kerbin such that it's not owned by the player, and thus not controllable until you dock and/or rendezvous with it.

Had that concept worked back when I started this I would have gone that route instead of making everything debris. At the time it was super glitchy though.

You'd also have to reset the contracts. And the World's First achievements. And the science found. And...

Ugh.

Frankly, I wonder what can even be done. Eventually it'll become a game of "get to orbit, add something to the station before time's up"

Edit: I'm probably going to write some code to do the Kerbin-reset for me. I wonder if I could actually enforce the "leave anyone that has been to space" thing...

Edited by greenTurtle1134

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So just as a quick check, to reset Kerbin I'm going to have to:

  • Reset Funds, Science, and Reputation to game-start values
  • Delete all Contracts
  • Delete science experiments already done
  • Delete craft landed on Kerbin (maybe?)
  • Set all craft not landed on Kerbin to unowned
  • Delete all kerbals that have not been to space
  • Set all kerbals in orbit to "rescue"
  • Add a roman numeral after Kerbal names to denote that they're from an earlier cycle

Did I miss anything? Also, @Cydonian Monk, what's your modpack for Forgotten Space Program? Would any mods work well with this?

Like this post to express interest in this idea.

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1 hour ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

So just as a quick check, to reset Kerbin I'm going to have to:

  • Reset Funds, Science, and Reputation to game-start values
  • Delete all Contracts
  • Delete science experiments already done
  • Delete craft landed on Kerbin (maybe?)
  • Set all craft not landed on Kerbin to unowned
  • Delete all kerbals that have not been to space
  • Set all kerbals in orbit to "rescue"
  • Add a roman numeral after Kerbal names to denote that they're from an earlier cycle

Did I miss anything?

Sounds about right, but I'm not sure how well the unowned logic works. Also: flags were wonky when I first "forgot" all of my own saves, and had to stay as flags and not debris. I've never tried to make flags "unowned" so they might just cause Armageddon. 

Also: You need to set the debris limit in your settings.cfg file to either -1 or whatever the max is in the settings screen. You can no longer set it to -1 through the screen, but the game still keeps all debris if it has that value. 

1 hour ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

Also, @Cydonian Monk, what's your modpack for Forgotten Space Program? Would any mods work well with this?

All mods from 1.0.5 onwards are listed in the first post of this thread. None of them would help in what you're looking to do though. 

It might be relatively easy to write a "Forget It" mod to do what you need. I'll look into that tomorrow and see what I can do. 

1 hour ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

Like this post to express interest in this idea.

Probably best to split this discussion of a succession game off to a new thread / post in Fan Works, to be honest. 

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7 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

Probably best to split this discussion of a succession game off to a new thread / post in Fan Works, to be honest. 

I will if people are interested.

Another thing to remember: Reset resource scan data. Whether that's Stock or SCANSat. Resetting the scansat maps may be a hassle...

Also, should kerballed vessels be marked unowned at all? I feel like any Kerbal crews would instantly call the new Kerbin and ask for directions.

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On 5/17/2019 at 7:14 PM, greenTurtle1134 said:

Also, should kerballed vessels be marked unowned at all? I feel like any Kerbal crews would instantly call the new Kerbin and ask for directions.

What if they wanted to remain forgotten? Just a story idea. Alternatively, incompatible communication software could make it difficult. 

Out of curiosity, would it be easier to just create a new save, copy the old vessel list and astronaut roster over, and use the search and replace feature to set all the vessel types to “Unowned” or “Debris”? Is there an obstacle or more efficient way? Or is that what you do already?

 

Thank you! I’m glad to see this wonderful mission report up and running again. 

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5 hours ago, GearsNSuch said:

Out of curiosity, would it be easier to just create a new save, copy the old vessel list and astronaut roster over, and use the search and replace feature to set all the vessel types to “Unowned” or “Debris”? Is there an obstacle or more efficient way? Or is that what you do already?

That's what I've done in the past. Protects against any unexpected changes in the persistence file due to new versions. 

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Posted (edited)

Copper Supply

The now-kinda-complete Copper Station quickly became the focal point of orbital operations. The ample housing, spin gravity, functional greenhouses, and large science labs made the other orbital habitats seem primitive by comparison. It was only natural that all the personell presently in orbit would transfer to Copper, along with their ongoing scientific research.

Feeding the research beast still required a large number of the usual supplies: science kits, experiments, and of course the kerbals themselves. Feeding the crew also required some supplies to kick-start the greenhouses. Much of the seed material was included with the habitat when it launched, and once those habitats were in full operation they would contain enough biomass to both feed the crew and scrub the atmosphere, but some resupply was always going to be required. And there was the gap of time between now and when the growth reached its required mass.

Before any of that could take place though there was a bit of housekeeping to take care of. First up was emptying Manganese Station of both its crew and the science experiments they had been working on. Mardi and Rozor had on of the old Zinc probes packed to the gills with data to return to the surface before Tetris gave it the old shove-off. The craft took over shortly there after, deorbiting and detaching the return pod while the craft itself burned up in the atmosphere. The return package was later picked up by ground crews, having landed somewhere just west of the space center. 

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With the science returned to Kerbin, the crew was now free to FE-rry over to Copper. (At this point only Mardi, Rozor, and Tetris were left aboard Manganese, unless someone else was forgotten.... My notes are sketchy and my memory is not what it once was.) An Iron shuttle was dispatched from Copper to handle the ferry job, which was then docked while under remote control by Tetris. Once they had gathered all of their belongings and loaded up any other important odds and ends, its final crew put Manganese Station in low-power mode, sealed its hatch, and floated away for what will almost certainly be the last time.

The trip back to Copper was short and uneventful.

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--

Zinc 3

And now it was time to send more supplies up to Copper. First up was the third of the Zinc launches, full of all the science experiments and supplies a crew could ever want. The launch of the Zn-3 atop its LV-13 Scherzo was remarkably quick when compared to the lumbering beasts which had launched Copper Station. The flight software placed the Zinc payload into a nearly perfect intercept with the station at only 6 and a half minutes after liftoff. Instantaneous launch indeed!

The rendezvous took place just as they two craft slipped into the dark, as is only right and proper. The Zinc was docked to the end of one of the long docking armatures, and the crew went to work unloading the new supplies. (Including some KNUTS!)

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--

Gallium 3

Next up came the first official launch of the Pioneer Expedition. Officially manifested as "just more science stuff", the Gallium 3 secretly contained the first batch of tools and experiments the crew of the upcoming Mün mission would need to explored their target. The shady launch took place under mostly-clouded skies, its LV-10 Concerto performing flawlessly.

Less flawless was when the craft's upper stage decided to burn downwards instead of outwards, followed by a suspicious communications failure. The craft broke up half an orbit later and reentered the atmosphere. Its expensive payload was thankfully recovered undamaged, having been designed to return samples to Kerbin following the first stage of the Pioneer mission. 

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The post-flight review suggested the launch failed due to a combination of faults including but not limited to a mis-configured alight profile to a damaged long-range communications system. The administration was a bit more skeptical of the actual cause, but ultimately decided to let it pass and rescheduled the payload for a future flight.

--


Germanium 2

That "later" flight being the Germanium 2. This flight was originally to be a smaller tug and payload, but following the loss of the Gallium 3 was redesigned to be quite a bit larger. The "tug" was just the lower section from one of the Iron shuttles, more than enough muscle to lug its payload out to The Mün and back. Even then it was still small enough to launch atop an LV-30 Overture, meaning it was really rather heavy. (251.17 tonnes, to be precise.)

The launch was exceptionally perfect, placing the Germanium 2 into a short holding orbit before its transfer stage kicked it out on its Münar intercept. The capture burn was timed so that the Germanium 2 would rendezvous with its intended target while on the side of The Mün facing Kerbin. Its target being one of the not-so-recently vacated Pequoni research stations in orbit.

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The approach and final docking were conducted by the Germanium 3's onboard flight computer while overseen from the ground at the space center. In the dark, much like the flight crews were being kept about the purpose of the Germanium 2 launch. They needn't wait long, as their answers would soon arrive, but that's a story for next time....

--

Navigation: Next Post

Edited by Cydonian Monk

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So I forgot whether this was maybe already mentioned once, but copper is very, very straight. It looks suspiciously like you could attach an engine module on the front and pull the entire thing around the system. Is it going to be a huge mothership for some far mission?

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2 hours ago, superstrijder15 said:

So I forgot whether this was maybe already mentioned once, but copper is very, very straight. It looks suspiciously like you could attach an engine module on the front and pull the entire thing around the system. Is it going to be a huge mothership for some far mission?

Shhhh!

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4 hours ago, superstrijder15 said:

So I forgot whether this was maybe already mentioned once, but copper is very, very straight. It looks suspiciously like you could attach an engine module on the front and pull the entire thing around the system. Is it going to be a huge mothership for some far mission?

 It's going to Jool, right?

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Posted (edited)

Titanium Y-6

The Titanium Y-6 launch carried the first five of the New Pioneers into orbit: one new lander pilot, Julory; three new scientists, Sherdin, Neding, and Ribbles; and one new engineer, Lintop. Kadun was back as pilot for the Titanium, a craft she had mastered over the course of the preceding mission and subsequent in-atmosphere test flights. Bringing it back to KSC from the several-hundred-kilometer overshoot caused by the Titanium Y-5's flight computer mishap had earned her a permanent job.

The crew had bussed out to the launchpad following the craft's overnight rollout, and were just finishing strapping in for the launch. Ascent would be handled by the onboard flight computer, its control software updated to correct for the minor mishaps on the previous flight. If needed Kadun could override the computer and take it to orbit on her own, but it was unlikely for anything to happen during the ascent which would require such a kerbal override.

As had become standard for launches, there was only a ten-second countdown following completion of the checklists. At T-minus 5 seconds the main engine ignited, spooled up to full power, and the clamps released at the zero mark. Liftoff!

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The launch placed the Titanium into a near-rendezvous with Copper Station, an approach of around 8km only 7 minutes and 51 seconds into the flight. From there the computer set up the craft into a shallower orbit, allowing them to catch up with the station after only one orbit.

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The actual rendezvous between Titanium and Copper took place in the dark, as is only right and proper. Kadun brought the ship in to dock under her own control (as automated docking hadn't quite been figured out by the space program's chief programmer, and the control scheme for the Titanium was more than a bit weird).

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The five new crew members quickly transferred over to Copper Station, offering only the bare minimum of greetings to the remaining crew and mostly just kept to themselves. The three new scientists had their own experiments to attend to, so set up in one of the labs not currently in use by the current crew. 

Kadun grabbed what little transfer containers the station had saved up to return to the surface (they had already sent most of what they had down on the Zinc) and moved them into the small storage area inside the Titanium. Once that was secured, she bid her own farewell to the station, undocked, pushed back using RCS, and dropped the Titanium into a lower orbit.

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It wasn't long before the craft drifted into the landing window, and Kadun performed the deorbit burn on her own. She didn't completely trust the computer after the Ti-5 screwup, even though her numbers for the reentry burn agreed with what the computer claimed it would need. 

The craft was committed to the reentry just a short while later, and the air started to super-compress and turn to plasma in advance of the spaceplane. 

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This time the placement was perfect. Kadun switched on and spooled up the Titanium's four jet engines, though she didn't expect to need them. In the end she was able to glide the craft down softly onto the runway. Perfect landing. Perfect flight. 

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Mission accomplished. 


--

Iron Transfer

While the Titanium 6 flight was unfolding the science and support crew was returning to their station around The Mün. A pair of Iron shuttles had undocked from Copper Station carrying nine kerbals shortly before the Ti-6's launch. It carried with it a varied and experienced crew. Two pilots: Tetris and Edsel; three engineers: Verly, Roundous and Mardi; and four scientists: Rozor, Elkin, Barbara, and Steve. 

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Rozor was still under observation, his "space madness" having not entirely subsided. Having a fear of heights and a fear of falling should probably have been a disqualifier for the space program, and while that wasn't what had ultimately led to Rozor's mind breaking, it hadn't helped much otherwise. Seeing ghosts and duplicates of fellow crew mates would probably disturb most kerbals to the point of madness. 

As such, command of the mission had fallen to the next most-senior member of the crew: Verly. As a radio engineer she had a good feel for what needed to be done to fix their communications when the Cycle change hit. She had once been the junior operator of the ground-based telescopes, and had honed her skills under the tutelage of Macfred. During her extended and somewhat unplanned stay in orbit she had further developed her skills, even coming up with a few new designs for communications infrastructure. 

Elkin had as good of a claim as Verly for command of the mission, as the only other member of the Carbon 6 in their crew, but he had decided to assume the role of science officer instead. After all these years he still felt out of place, with Rozor being a famous chemist well known for his high-performance rocket fuels and Verly having established herself as an expert in the field of radio astronomy and advanced communication. At the end of the day Elkin knew he was just a lowly intern, "famous" only for having launched himself and two of his coworkers through the wall of the VAB atop a barrel of exploding fleas. 

Mardi, Tetris, Rondous, and Edsel were four of the Aluminum Five. Each of them had nearly as much experience as the three Carbon Sixers, if not more flight time. Barbara and Steve were the two "newest" members of the crew, having been brought to orbit aboard the Titanium 4 more than four years ago. And fast approaching five years. 

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During their time in space, all nine of them had transferred through any number of stations on-orbit, with most of them having visited Kelgee, Transfer One, several of the Mün stations, and Copper. And now they were on their way back out to one of the "Things" their space program had found around The Mün all those many years ago. Back to Pequoni 2.

It was an old station, but nowhere near as old as some of the other bits of junk they had found in space. It helped that their own space program, directed by The Boss, had sent out resupply missions to the Mün stations as part of their attempt at researching the Cycles and to find a way to keep their program intact across cycle jumps. Not that anything had really worked. Eventually their Boss had disappeared, the sketchy Jonbald had taken over command of the space program, and now they were working on one of his strange pet projects. 

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That supplies sent out by Jonbald aboard the Germanium 2 could support the nine of them for close to a decade. And there were yet more supplies available in friendly orbits at other nearby stations, such as Pequoni 1 a mere 10km below them. According to the plans given to the crew, they were to serve as the "caretakers" of the orbital equipment while this Pioneer Expedition was unfolding on the surface. They had at their disposal two Sulphur shuttles, two Iron shuttles, at least two operating stations, and anything else they felt they needed to properly care for the Pioneers.

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The docking was a quick affair, as there were only a handful of open ports. None, actually, but the design of the Sulphur and Iron shuttles allowed for them to dock up "elephant style" nose to tail with unimpeded crew access through the craft. In this way they could stack an infinite number of the shuttle together if they wanted. 

The station itself was in disarray, having been hastily abandoned by Edsel, Rondous, Verly, Elkin and Steve following the dangerously failed launch and transfer of the Germanium 1. They found no major damage aboard the station, only the usual micrometeorite wear and tear, and proceeded to transfer their belonging back into their bunks. Next they connected up the transfer hoses, checked the status of all the fuel tanks aboard the station, and set about refueling their two Iron shuttles.

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Pequoni 2 was once again open for business.

 

--

Navigation: Next Post

Edited by Cydonian Monk

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

only for having launched himself and two of his coworkers through the wall of the VAB atop a barrel of exploding fleas. 

So they survived.

 

Tough little creatures.

 

The fleas, that is.

Edited by GearsNSuch

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4 hours ago, GearsNSuch said:

So they survived.

Tough little creatures.

The fleas, that is.

Science has yet to find the secret to solving the flea problem. ;) 

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

Science has yet to find the secret to solving the flea problem. ;) 

In the Circus, where all Kerbals have a ration of 1 gallon beer and a tot of grog per day, the excess vitamin B from the brewer's yeast they sweat out acts as a natural repellent to most exoparasites.  It doesn't seem to work on face-huggers but those are more endoparasites when you think about it.

Anyway, I'm all caught up now and am glad this space program hasn't yet been forgotten.  We seem to have 4 main players now:  Jonbald (when he's thinking in his own mind), the Monks, the Forgotten(+) (the + means "reinforced" or "with attachments"), and the alien beasties behind it all (reinforced by Jonbald from time to time).  But I'm still betting on the Pirate Captain and the Queen of Space Madness to play a decisive wildcard at an opportune moment ;)

Edited by Geschosskopf

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5 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

Anyway, I'm all caught up now and am glad this space program hasn't yet been forgotten. 

Good to hear. (Insert "thumb's up" emoji which is apparently illegal on these here forums.) 

Still trucking along in v1.4.5 though. (And its anti-gravity problems with landed craft sliding uphill.) Should be fully up to v1.7.1 once I figure out how to get all the faces and maybe even the handful of custom suits remapped. Looks like most of my core mods are updated, and those that aren't I've been silently rebuilding on my own for a couple years now anyway.....

Quote

We seem to have 4 main players now:  Jonbald (when he's thinking in his own mind), the Monks, the Forgotten(+) (the + means "reinforced" or "with attachments"), and the alien beasties behind it all.... 

Sounds about right. Power moves are best made slowly, but once enough energy has built up in a system things can "snap!" and change very quickly. 

Quote

But I'm still betting on the Pirate Captain and the Queen of Space Madness to play a decisive wildcard at an opportune moment ;)

As teased (what, a year ago now?), we'll be returning to them shortly. ;) (Mildly spoilerish hint: Sieta and Hallock are the focus of Volume 2 Sequence 8.) I've been using them as an avenue for playing with KIS/KAS as much as anything, with mixed but mostly positive results.

If I keep to my schedule, we'll get to them in three, maybe four posts. I think there's a one-post interlude that'll get inserted between current events and their bit of the story.

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19 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

Still trucking along in v1.4.5 though. (And its anti-gravity problems with landed craft sliding uphill.) Should be fully up to v1.7.1 once I figure out how to get all the faces and maybe even the handful of custom suits remapped. Looks like most of my core mods are updated, and those that aren't I've been silently rebuilding on my own for a couple years now anyway.....

Which raises an interesting question. Will we get two crashes in rapid succession, or one extra-long crash, when you go through two versions at once?

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13 hours ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

Which raises an interesting question. Will we get two crashes in rapid succession, or one extra-long crash, when you go through two versions at once?

I'll say this: You'll see more of the conversion from v1.3.1 to v1.4.5 than you will of the conversion from v1.4.5 to v1.7.*. 

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Posted (edited)

Iron Enrichment

The next six launches further reinforced the hardware and personnel needed for the Pioneer Expedition. The space program had built up a stockpile of LV-30 Overture rockets in anticipation of this work, and now had a healthy surplus and a well-established assembly line going. The payloads themselves were the only bottleneck. 

First up were two lander variants of the Iron Shuttle to add to the two presently at The Mün. (This is the standard Iron configuration, as none of them have been built without legs and ladders.) Unlike Fe-1 and 2 which were launched using their own custom launch vehicle, Fe-3 and 4 used a tried-and-tested LV-30 Overture. Mass at liftoff was a hefty 241 tonnes. Both craft were docked at Copper Station, where they could be prepped for the mission by the New Pioneers. Their orbital modules were retained and refueled, with the intent of using them to perform the initial transfer to The Mün. No reason to waste fuel they would desperately need for ground operations. 


Iron 3

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Iron 4

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--


Titanium Y-7

The next Titanium launch brought the last four of this batch of the New Pioneers to Copper Station. This included one new pilot, Maubus; two new scientists, Minidou and Malbro; and the assistant chief engineer of the expedition, Patsey. Much like the previous group, these four kept to themselves, having trained independently of the other two new groups. Kadun resumed her role as Titanium Valkyrie, guiding the four of them into Valhalla. Or at the very least into orbit. 

This was just another routine mission for Titanium. With Copper Station more than a bit congested, Kadun had to dock the Ti-Y-7 at the very tip of the forward airlock assembly. (The construction tug and the Zinc supply craft were both occupying the docking arms, and should have really been somewhere else. Meanwhile the two Irons were docked at the forward radial airlocks, but were large enough to block the two armatures below them. This mess is something a competent Visiting Vehicle Officer would have been on top of.)

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With the new crews transferred onto the station, Kadun undocked, backed away, and dropped the craft into its lower reentry staging orbit. Once again she opted to trust her own numbers for the reentry burn instead of those provided by the flight computer, and managed to drop the craft in perfectly to its approach corridor. 

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Another flawless Titanium flight. 

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--

More Irons on the Fire

Three more Iron Shuttles followed the two already at Copper Station. Identical in every way to the preceding two Fe launches, these three were just added reinforcements. One of the three would be used to transport the first group of the personnel for the Pioneer Expedition to The Mün, but for the moment all of them were just dropped into a holding orbit above Kerbin. 


Iron 5

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Iron 6

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Iron 7

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--


The expedition teams could now make the final preparations for their missions. Each had their own crew of four hand-picked kerbals. Team One drew from the Copper Six, launched aboard Ti-Y-5. Team Two from the first group of the New Pioneers. And Team Three from the second group of New Pioneers. Each team was an insular group, isolated from the others with their own objectives and goals. And each was commanded by a different council member. 

Team One: Copper
   Command: Wernher
   Pilot: Kadun
   Science One: Lemming
   Science Two: Neloly
   Science Three: Julwise

Team Two: Iron
   Command: Gene
   Pilot: Julory
   Engineer: Lintop
   Science One: Neding
   Science Two: Ribbles

Team Three: Titanium
   Command: Jonbald
   Pilot: Maubus
   Engineer: Patsey
   Science One: Minidou
   Science Two: Malbro

This would leave only a small crew of scientists at Copper Station: Haycas, Wildan, and Sherdin. All three of them from Jonbald's list, two from the Copper Six and one from the first group of New Pioneers. More crews were expected to launch to Copper Station on the second Ti-Y series shuttle had completed construction and testing, but that wouldn't happen for several munths yet. 

With the teams assembled and the hardware for the first phase of the Pioneer Expedition in orbit, the only thing remaining to launch were the three council representatives themselves: Jonbald, Gene, and Wernher. A handful of fuel tankers would later follow them into orbit before transferring to The Mün. But those are stories for next time....

 

==

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Edited by Cydonian Monk

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7 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

But those is are stories for next time....

slight error here: is are

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