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Arianespace launch thread


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2 minutes ago, tater said:

There was apparently some statement that Europe should have it's own human launch capability...

 

Wonder where they would land?

As an italian, why? I can understand the benefits of an independent launch capability in case the foreign ones are unavailable, but buying Soyuzes and launching them from Kourou completely defeats the purpose

Not that I think Europe will ever launch humans on their own in the next decade, I know that won't happen

Edited by Beccab
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I think this will fail. Didn't ESA actually get parts of its budget reduced/cut just a year or two ago?

Astronauts, scientists, engineers, or groups of all of them have tried to put forward space program proposals to their governments in the past. There were a number of government committees comprised of former astronauts, scientists, engineers, and former NASA management people in the 80s in the United States that "recommended" or "advocated" for more investment in space exploration, including a return to the Moon and/or an expedition to Mars. They had all of the fluff about how it would benefit Earth (and "political leadership"), yet their proposals were ignored- despite the US (according to the history I was taught) being in a period of economic prosperity!

The reasons for developing independent European crew transport capability listed seem to be basically identical to that of Hermes in the late 70s or 80s. The only instance I could see this coming to fruition is if ESA's members have interest in maintaining their own independent presence in LEO after the ISS. IIRC, ESA has made no statements regarding its stance on Axiom. If they build their own small space station they will certainly need their own spacecraft to reach it.

Or, if the US and China destroy each other in a nuclear war, then ESA will be forced to start its own crewed space program if it doesn't want in on the ROSS.

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6 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

ESA members spend too much on social support.  They don't have anything else to spare.

This is not the case. There's just been little incentive to have an independent crewed capability beyond putting work towards strategic industries.

With Russia behaving in a hostile manner in other matters that may provide enough incentive to develop a separate capability. Or it may not.

In any case I don't think buying Russian vehicles would addresses the independence issue.

 

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The president of france has requested that ESA assemble a "high-level advisory group" composed primarily of "non space experts" to "look at various aspects of society" and "come up with more specific European targets and ambitions for manned space travel". In other words, he wants to establish a committee to develop future manned spaceflight related committees. :confused:

https://spacenews.com/esa-to-set-up-committee-to-study-human-space-exploration-options/

 

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18 hours ago, insert_name said:

In other words, he wants to establish a committee to develop future manned spaceflight related committees. :confused:

This is not what appears to be happening based on that article. It's just a committee creating some preliminary concepts.

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HERMES IS BACK BABY

And is that an electric space tug I spy?

On a more serious note, it is just a “concept”, and likely exists alongside a semi-reusable (Orion) or Dragon-style capsule somewhere.

But who knows? If DreamChaser is going to be a thing, why not new Hermes? Especially if new Hermes might not require throwing away anything, unlike a capsule’s service module.

On an even more serious note, I wonder how realistic these “visions” are. Hermes died amidst economic troubles in the early 90s and the convenient appearance of Russia as a partner. The latter could arguably have been replaced by SpaceX while the situation isn’t exactly peachy with the former.

It will depend on just how far this “being a peer competitor with other large nations” goes, I suppose.

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18 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

On a more serious note, it is just a “concept”, and likely exists alongside a semi-reusable (Orion) or Dragon-style capsule somewhere.

Actually, the boosters are Falcon 9 clones:

FVWmRJ1WIAE1xdk?format=jpg

So boosters reusable, too.

I'm all-in for ESA becoming a peer organization to NASA instead of poor stepchild. That will grossly increase what is possible.

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On 2/18/2022 at 10:53 PM, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

ESA members spend too much on social support.  They don't have anything else to spare.

Retracted 

India spends half of what France (just France*) spends on space.  ESA seems to have all the pork of issues "old space".

Granted, India hasn't stepped up to crewed flight, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do before the ESA isn't still having to buy flights from others.

* source, one the the graphics in this  sub-forum.  Possibly the Chinese thread.

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I often dither with myself about whether we're on the cusp of an explosion of space exploitation or just a moderate shift from government run to privatized space with no real other change than the associated efficiency. 

 

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