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Updated Terms Notice & Privacy Policy

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On 5/30/2018 at 12:44 PM, wblayney said:

I'm just adding it to the conversation as an unconsidered factor, I don't mean to "fear-monger". I'm frankly a little confused as to how you're writing this off with such confidence

There's about 40 pages more explaining why if you're really curious.

Bottom line, the game as downloaded never asks for your credit card and still works if you unplug your network cord, it can't possibly be watching anything or stealing anything.

Let me know if that ever changes.

Edited by Corona688

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1 hour ago, Corona688 said:

There's about 40 pages more explaining why if you're really curious.

Bottom line, the game as downloaded never asks for your credit card and still works if you unplug your network cord, it can't possibly be watching anything or stealing anything.

Let me know if that ever changes.

That's silly.  It can't be currently phoning home when your network is unplugged, but as soon as you reconnect the plug it can start doing whatever it does again, unless you've actively locked things down.

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6 minutes ago, suicidejunkie said:

That's silly.  It can't be currently phoning home when your network is unplugged, but as soon as you reconnect the plug it can start doing whatever it does again, unless you've actively locked things down.

Because that anonymous analytic data and hardware information is really a cause for concern. Oh wait, it isn't.

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2 hours ago, hbk314 said:

Because that anonymous analytic data and hardware information is really a cause for concern. Oh wait, it isn't.

The concerning is collecting more than such data, but since now there's a public and legal enforceable agreement for the collected data, it's a liability to even try such stunt. 

So, yeah, the problem is solved. The value they could extract from such extra data is less that the cost of a single litigation. The risk makes the stunt unprofitable. 

Edited by Lisias
False cognate fixed

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54 minutes ago, Lisias said:

The concerning is collecting more than such data, but since now there's a public and legal enforceable agreement for the published data, it's a liability to even try such stunt. 

So, yeah, the problem is solved. The value they could extract from such extra data is less that the cost of a single litigation. The risk makes the stunt unprofitable. 

The privacy policy is very clear about what information can be collected by the game. It's also very clear that all personal information is acquired by Take2 on a voluntary basis. Additionally, the data sent by Red Shell and Unity has been analyzed, I believe several pages back in this thread, and found to contain no personal information. The concern that the game might somehow "steal" a player's personal information is completely unfounded.

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Just now, hbk314 said:

The concern that the game might somehow "steal" a player's personal information is completely unfounded.

Agreed. And the notion that they "might" abuse the system for collecting more data than allowed is now proven highly improbable also, as it's unprofitable.

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3 hours ago, suicidejunkie said:

That's silly.  It can't be currently phoning home when your network is unplugged, but as soon as you reconnect the plug it can start doing whatever it does again, unless you've actively locked things down.

But what, exactly, does it have to send?

It doesn't know your credit card number, name, address, phone number, job, facebook account names, mailbox, contacts, etc.  It doesn't even know whether it's legit or pirated.  It's got nothing.

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1 minute ago, Corona688 said:

But what, exactly, does it have to send?

It doesn't know your credit card number, name, address, phone number, job, facebook account names, mailbox, contacts, etc.  It doesn't even know whether it's legit or pirated.  It's got nothing.

Exactly.

All it sends is anonymous analytics and hardware information. That only serves to benefit KSP.

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On 6/1/2018 at 10:57 PM, Lisias said:

Agreed. And the notion that they "might" abuse the system for collecting more data than allowed is now proven highly improbable also, as it's unprofitable.

umm not to stomp on your argument here, but not only dose this happen it happens a lot more than people think.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/02/19/flight-sim-group-put-malware-in-a-jet-and-called-it-drm/

https://www.zdnet.com/article/amid-data-breach-responsibility-thrown-to-the-wind/

and lets not forget that when take 2 where targeting the gta modders, they literally send private detectives to hand deliver the cease and desists, the same covered threat that Scientology used back in the day.

I keep seeing these arguments and it spins my brain how nieve people are
"I know they CAN do that, but they WOULDN'T DO THAT"
"they are doing that"
"show me an example"
"here"
"thats just an exception"
what?

much like a condom, it aint the best solution, but its far better than nothing. and now aday's Ip's are personal info, you cant argue they shouldent be all you want, much like you can say they earth is flat, it aint going to change it. 

 

On 6/1/2018 at 10:59 PM, hbk314 said:

Exactly.

All it sends is anonymous analytics and hardware information. That only serves to benefit KSP.

But it could harvest more and no one would know, for instance the major hack of the psn network revealed they where storing the card numbers of people who had specifically said not to store them....



 

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12 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

and lets not forget that when take 2 where targeting the gta modders, they literally send private detectives to hand deliver the cease and desists, the same covered threat that Scientology used back in the day.

Well hell.  You might as well say they hired the gestapo if you're going to make that leap of logic.    Using PI's, and other similar agents, to deliver legal documentation that requires a witness of delivery is common practice.    And from what I've read, the modders in question were affecting TTI's revenue from the game, so I understand their stance on that issue.  

But a similar issue in KSP would require that Squad either introduce micro transactions or release a DLC that is already done effectively by a mod.  Not only would that not work, as that cat is already out of the bag, and there is no current method for preventing the mod from running, but it would also cause a massive PR nightmare for SQUAD/TTI, which would far out weigh any sales they would gain. 

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2 hours ago, Space Kadet said:

umm not to stomp on your argument here, but not only dose this happen it happens a lot more than people think.

As I said before, you don't need to thrust people's good will - it's enough and sufficient to thrust their common sense.

So, not willing to stomp your stomping but… A single GDPR lawsuit from an European would pretty much put Squad out of business. KSP is a Indie game, not a Block Buster success. 

This is not PacMan, this is not Counter Strike. There're a lot of high skilled people doing mods here, some of them running KSP inside Containers and monitoring every I/O the program does - on disk, on network, whatever. It's not personal, such people do it for living, doing it on KSP is just another Puppet script.

So, the risk of being caught (almost a statistical tautology) and the backslash (including monetary) makes the stunt unprofitable. We are not handling the Mafia here, companies do what they do for money. If the stunt costs more than the money they can earn from it, there's no profit, so there's no stunt. It's simple like that.

Of course, things can change in the future. But until there, currently this is not a problem.

2 hours ago, Space Kadet said:

But it could harvest more and no one would know, for instance the major hack of the psn network revealed they where storing the card numbers of people who had specifically said not to store them....

Coulda, shoulda, woulda.

We have a historical base of KSP releases in which we can compare and see when something changes. We don't need to see inside the packet to know there's something "new" happening.

KSP is not PSN.

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On 7/15/2018 at 2:05 AM, Gargamel said:

Well hell.  You might as well say they hired the gestapo if you're going to make that leap of logic.    Using PI's, and other similar agents, to deliver legal documentation that requires a witness of delivery is common practice. 

But a similar issue in KSP would require that Squad either introduce micro transactions or release a DLC that is already done effectively by a mod.  Not only would that not work, *

point the first, no its not common, only in america dose this happen

point the second, i was literally on the gta forums for gta 4  years ago when someone said the same thing.

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1 hour ago, Space Kadet said:

point the second, i was literally on the gta forums for gta 4  years ago when someone said the same thing.

GTA is a completely different game, made by a completely different team, under a completely different business model.

Squad is here on this forum with us, taking the heat for the eventual mishaps they did, and also for the ones they didn't, besides some thinking they did. These guys are on the trenches, not isolated on the safety of an office with a PR team shielding them.

This may change in the future, but it didn't changed yet. So let's solve the problems at hand, I say.

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50 minutes ago, Lisias said:

GTA is a completely different game, made by a completely different team, under a completely different business model.

Squad is here on this forum with us, taking the heat for the eventual mishaps they did, and also for the ones they didn't, besides some thinking they did. These guys are on the trenches, not isolated on the safety of an office with a PR team shielding them.

This may change in the future, but it didn't changed yet. So let's solve the problems at hand, I say.

you missed the point ironicaly, gta wasent 'a completly different kind of game' it now is, after being taken over.... which just happened here.... see where im going ?

take 2's entire buisness modles is this, if you dont think its gonna happen here your deluding yourself, its just a matter of time.

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16 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

you missed the point ironicaly, gta wasent 'a completly different kind of game' it now is, after being taken over.... which just happened here.... see where im going ?

Um, yes it was, and still is. Rockstar never, ever, ever embraced modding. I had to download a hacked exe to get mods to work on San Andreas, and they were all buggy and wonky. It was easily the most fun I ever had playing GTA though.

KSP on the other hand has had an active and developer supported modding community from - essentially - the very beginning.

21 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

take 2's entire buisness modles is this, if you dont think its gonna happen here your deluding yourself, its just a matter of time

And when that time comes - unlike with GTA - you can just keep playing the version right before that forever. And guess what, it'll be the version that all the modders use, too.

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If you are concerned about your data being collected by KSP, well, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc already got your data. And if you are concerned about *that*, this is not the place to talk about that. 

Soyuz nerushimy respublic....

 

Edited by 0something0

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12 hours ago, 0something0 said:

If you are concerned about your sata being collected by KSP, well, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc already got your data. And if you are concerned about *that*, this is not the place to talk about that. 

Soyuz nerushimy respublic....

 

Im not, thats called 'your projecting'.

13 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Um, yes it was, and still is. Rockstar never, ever, ever embraced modding. I had to download a hacked exe to get mods to work on San Andreas, and they were all buggy and wonky. It was easily the most fun I ever had playing GTA though.

KSP on the other hand has had an active and developer supported modding community from - essentially - the very beginning.

And when that time comes - unlike with GTA - you can just keep playing the version right before that forever. And guess what, it'll be the version that all the modders use, too.

Actually u can keep playing the version before they changed the eula, otherwise you are in breach, but if you dont have that saved when the update comes...

but again your missing the point, no gta didnt activly support modding, but they allowed it, then they where bought over and regardless of them 'being in the trenches' a soldier follows orders! Again there was a huge exodus of devs right before the t2 deal was announced.

i love kerbal, and the dev team, but kerbal is now tripple A, with all the strings and money grubbing that could come.

the argument against is "it wont happen because we trust them, regardless of how many times its happened in the past" its ok to have that opinion, its good to be an optimist, but im a realist.

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4 hours ago, Space Kadet said:

the argument against is "it wont happen because we trust them, regardless of how many times its happened in the past" its ok to have that opinion, its good to be an optimist, but im a realist.

Actually the argument (from me) is that until I see one inch of motion in that direction I'm not just going to assume Squad and Take Two will do something against their own best interests just to "be evil."

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6 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Actually the argument (from me) is that until I see one inch of motion in that direction I'm not just going to assume Squad and Take Two will do something against their own best interests just to "be evil."

Its not against their best interests to make money, and an inch of motion in that direction would start with changing the eula....

And evil is a perspective. Very few people do things to be evil, going back to the t2 and gta. Those changes that screwed peoples fun made them a boat load of money that allowed them to buyout several other companies, like squad.

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14 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

Its not against their best interests to make money, and an inch of motion in that direction would start with changing the eula....

How would killing KSP modding make them money?

They did not change the EULA to kill fun. They did it to protect their IP while allowing people to share 100% in-game-produced content aka missions.

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8 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

How would killing KSP modding make them money?

They did not change the EULA to kill fun. They did it to protect their IP while allowing people to share 100% in-game-produced content aka missions.

No they didnt, because the last ine did that already, there no point in arguing if u dont know what the EULA dose.

Fly safe.

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Just now, Space Kadet said:

No they didnt, because the last ine did that already, there no point in arguing if u dont know what the EULA dose.

Fly safe.

No wonder I'm not having fun. Squad DID kill it with their EULA. At least, that was a side effect.

I hope you can keep playing when they sue the Earth. I truly do.

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10 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

No wonder I'm not having fun. Squad DID kill it with their EULA. At least, that was a side effect.

I hope you can keep playing when they sue the Earth. I truly do.

What was the "it" they killed?

 

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14 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

No wonder I'm not having fun. Squad DID kill it with their EULA. At least, that was a side effect.

I hope you can keep playing when they sue the Earth. I truly do.

Sry i was tired and bored, my point was they didnt change the eula to kill fun, but they also didnt change the eula to protect their property, the previous one already did that. If you had bothered to read the 2 you would see (as is already highlited here in this thread) the only changes in there are to do with subscriptions, takeing more ownership of player created things and enabling them to charge for more things i.e. It allows them to put ksp behind a paywall.

and again for the umpteenthn time, no they havent done these things yet, but the new eula gives them the option. 

And when they stop making money from a game, how dose it hurt them to implament these things and carry on... it dosent it makes them money for a fun title, itll liquid off some fanboys (ironically the ones thet are saying they woundent do it) but thats a small price to pay for profit. And as anyone with no eyes can see in the dark AAA gaming in general has done this over and over again. 

 

www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/170468-Take-Two-CEO-Company-is-Under-Monetizing-its-Users

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I had a whole response written but I, too, am tired. I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me. I won't even say what I was going to say so you'll get the last word and if you want the last word over this feel free to reply to this as well.

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