DCS World(Digital Combat Simulator) Chat Thread!

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, HazelPine said:

DCS is for sure a fun sim game. I have the Ka-50 and A-10 CD versions and they're some of the most realistic and fun things I've played.

Great!

[p1t1o]

5 hours ago, HazelPine said:

DCS is for sure a fun sim game. I have the Ka-50 and A-10 CD versions and they're some of the most realistic and fun things I've played.

I love the Ka50, just getting to the point where you can take off and land without dying is far more satisfying than doing the same in a fixed-wing!

And if you try really, really hard, you can even make it point in the direction you want it to go! 

Gotta say though, not having a set of rudder pedals is a huge handicap.

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by p1t1o

[Dafni]

Hey gang, I dont own DCS world, but I am definitely interested. Maybe you guys could help me make my mind up.

A nice, refined, stable flight sim is what I am after. I believe my hardware is up to the job (i7-8700K, 1080Ti, fast RAM etc) plus I have some joysticks too, most notably the Warthog stick (only the stick though, no throttle, and no pedals whatsoever). For KSP I just use the throttle from an old Logitech stick. I am not opposed to getting pedals later down the road.

So what is the verdict here? Is DCS the way to go these days or do you know any interesting competitors I should have a look at?

And how hard to you miss the pedals?

 

thanks in advance

-Daf

[p1t1o]

18 minutes ago, Dafni said:

So what is the verdict here? Is DCS the way to go these days or do you know any interesting competitors I should have a look at?

There is nothing else to look at, if its a jet-age military sim you're after.

If you're desperate to fly an F16, theres Falcon: Allied Force, but whilst it is a top-notch sim, and community-supported, its a very old sim and the graphics are extremely dated.

 

19 minutes ago, Dafni said:

And how hard to you miss the pedals?

In fixed-wing, not much at all, they'd be handy, but you dont need them.

You miss them more in helicopters, a lot more, but I dont own pedals either and it has not handicapped me too much in the Ka50 (although the Ka50 has several fly-by-wire systems that help and it has a contra-rotating design which removes a lot of rudderwork in helicopters - Im not sure how I would do in a Huey).

 

20 minutes ago, Dafni said:

A nice, refined, stable flight sim is what I am after. I believe my hardware is up to the job (i7-8700K, 1080Ti, fast RAM etc) plus I have some joysticks too, most notably the Warthog stick (only the stick though, no throttle, and no pedals whatsoever). For KSP I just use the throttle from an old Logitech stick. I am not opposed to getting pedals later down the road.

A Warthog stick goes a long way, I'd say you've got a half decent setup for DCS. You can do without the throttle as you can replicate almost all functions in other ways.

 

Best thing about DCS? The variety of very rarely-simmed aircraft that are available. (And, naturally, the extreme level of sim fidelity)

[Dafni]

Thank you for your opinion @p1t1o, I appreciate it. Most likely I will give it a try before long.

I will report back once I had some time with it.

[p1t1o]

33 minutes ago, Dafni said:

Thank you for your opinion @p1t1o, I appreciate it. Most likely I will give it a try before long.

I will report back once I had some time with it.

No worries at all.

Just one more thing - If you make the leap and want to upgrade - unless you are a helicopter enthusiast, get a TrackIR before rudder pedals.

(TrackIR is essentially "VR lite", but its loads cheaper, about the same price as mid-range pedals)

[Dafni]

3 hours ago, p1t1o said:

(TrackIR is essentially "VR lite", but its loads cheaper, about the same price as mid-range pedals)

Holy Jeb, that thing is NICE! I had no idea a thing like this even exists! Thanks for sharing man.

They claim on their site it is compatible with KSP too. Do we have a thread here on this already?

I have a 27" screen, I believe its the regular 16/9 ration. No wide screen curved fancy thing. Would this even make sense for me?

I might hit you up on more info on this gadget later on @p1t1o but of course I dont want to clutter this thread here... maybe I'll drop you a pm after I did some research.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Dafni

[p1t1o]

1 hour ago, Dafni said:

Holy Jeb, that thing is NICE! I had no idea a thing like this even exists! Thanks for sharing man.

They claim on their site it is compatible with KSP too. Do we have a thread here on this already?

I have a 27" screen, I believe its the regular 16/9 ration. No wide screen curved fancy thing. Would this even make sense for me?

I might hit you up on more info on this gadget later on @p1t1o but of course I dont want to clutter this thread here... maybe I'll drop you a pm after I did some research.

• No worries at all! If you're looking into DCS, it wouldn't have escaped your attention for long.
• I didnt know there was KSP support !! But then I havnt had a proper KSP binge in quite a while. I almost 100% use it for DCS, but it there are some first person games that support it too and it works really well.
• Theres no reason at all why it wouldnt work with your monitor, all it is is an intuitive tool to move the 3D viewpoint, it would work with any monitor.
• Sure, hit me up whenever.

Edited May 1, 2018 by p1t1o

[XLjedi]

@p1t1o @Dafni 

I've been using the deluxe TrackIR for awhile...  I just clipped it to my aviation headset and have been pretty happy with it.

One advantage it has over the VR headsets is you can still see your keyboard and all of your FCS buttons.  I've used mine mostly with Elite Dangerous.  The more FOV your monitor takes up, the better.  I can't remember exactly how big my flatscreen is, but I do sit pretty close to it.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Dafni said:

Holy Jeb, that thing is NICE! I had no idea a thing like this even exists! Thanks for sharing man.

They claim on their site it is compatible with KSP too. Do we have a thread here on this already?

I have a 27" screen, I believe its the regular 16/9 ration. No wide screen curved fancy thing. Would this even make sense for me?

I might hit you up on more info on this gadget later on @p1t1o but of course I dont want to clutter this thread here... maybe I'll drop you a pm after I did some research.

Using opentrack, you can make DIY headtracking for <$20. Thats what I do. I use my laptops built-in webcam, and opentracks aruco paper marker tracker. Basically free for me, and works quite nicely. 

Also, in case you want to upgrade your throttle, I highly reccomend the TWCS. It's cheap ($65-$80), but has plenty of buttons, thanks to the 2 4-way hats, 1 8-way hat, analog push-button ministick, a 2-way rocker, and 3 push buttons. It also has a large paddle at the front meant to be used as a rudder. I use it, and I am highly satisfied. I don't intend to upgrade my throttle untill this one breaks. 

Also, your rig is excellent for DCS. You could do VR if you wanted with that rig.

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Guest

[Dafni]

Thank you for your thoughts and inputs guys, @dundun92, @XLjedi and @p1t1o, great stuff.

So i have been looking at the game a bit more in depth and what can I say? I need two weeks off, at least! It looks and sounds awesome, almost too overwhelming and detailed. I am afraid with my limited playtime (job, family, ksp, etc) it will take me a long time to climb that learning curve. I'm sure it is a rewarding one though.

I see the base game is free and comes with two planes. (btw, that free base game and pay-for-planes mentality is actually quite nice and fair) But do you have a suggestion for a first DLC plane? Looking for something super easy and forgiving to begin my DCS experience.

cheers

[XLjedi]

29 minutes ago, Dafni said:

I see the base game is free and comes with two planes. (btw, that free base game and pay-for-planes mentality is actually quite nice and fair) But do you have a suggestion for a first DLC plane? Looking for something super easy and forgiving to begin my DCS experience.

If I were you...  I'd approach it with caution. 

I don't really like the game very much (if you can call it a game).   I would strongly suggest you force yourself to fly the planes it comes with for about a month before spending any money on it.

I mean sure, it looks good, has some nice details and all... and is a neat thing for powering LAN party style quick dogfights.  But to me, it feels very much like a clinical study in airframe/flight dynamics with very little game enjoyment unless using it specifically for a head-to-head encounter. 

Granted I have not turned it on in awhile and maybe they've added some single-player campaign elements (anyone that wishes to opine on this, feel free) and/or storyline...  but that's pretty much what I recall of DCS.  Maybe some folks can persuade me to revisit?

I do miss the early days of flight sims...  going way back to the earliest of MicroProse stuff.  When there was no multi-player and it basically forced developers to create these wonderful progressive campaign scenarios and branching stories that were just a joy to play.  Nowadays it feels like flight sims have gotten lazy... focusing zero on any sort of campaign or story and basically just leaving it to multi-player.  Simulations with campaign gameplay and storyline seems very much a lost art to me.

Edited May 2, 2018 by XLjedi

[Dimas152]

how do y'all play this? with a joystick or keyboard?

i tried this gem before, but bcs my laptop lags af even with low settings, so i uninstalled this
bought more RAM sticks and tucked it inside my laptop, tried to install it again

failed to launch whenever i opened it, uninstalled again

[XLjedi]

Just now, [INDO]dimas_1502 said:

how do y'all play this? with a joystick or keyboard?

i tried this gem before, but bcs my laptop lags af even with low settings, so i uninstalled this
bought more RAM sticks and tucked it inside my laptop, tried to install it again

failed to launch whenever i opened it, uninstalled again

I wouldn't even touch it without a full Flight Control System.  ...with the possible optionality of "twisty-stick" or "rudder peddles"

Be forewarned... these planes are easier to fly IRL than they are in the game. 

[Dimas152]

2 minutes ago, XLjedi said:

I wouldn't even touch it without a full Flight Control System.  ...with the possible optionality of "twisty-stick" or "rudder peddles"

Be forewarned... these planes are easier to fly IRL than they are in the game. 

but even i tried it with my keyboard, it still flies better than Il-2:1946
and yeah some things are easier to do irl than in game

[XLjedi]

6 minutes ago, [INDO]dimas_1502 said:

but even i tried it with my keyboard, it still flies better than Il-2:1946
and yeah some things are easier to do irl than in game

Not surprising, since Il-2 was abysmal...  but I s'pose we have them to thank as the grandfather of this flight sim genre where landing without dieing is a stellar achievement.

[Dafni]

47 minutes ago, XLjedi said:

If I were you...  I'd approach it with caution. 

I don't really like the game very much (if you can call it a game).   I would strongly suggest you force yourself to fly the planes it comes with for about a month before spending any money on it.

I mean sure, it looks good, has some nice details and all... and is a neat thing for powering LAN party style quick dogfights.  But to me, it feels very much like a clinical study in airframe/flight dynamics with very little game enjoyment unless using it specifically for a head-to-head encounter. 

Granted I have not turned it on in awhile and maybe they've added some single-player campaign elements (anyone that wishes to opine on this, feel free) and/or storyline...  but that's pretty much what I recall of DCS.  Maybe some folks can persuade me to revisit?

I do miss the early days of flight sims...  going way back to the earliest of MicroProse stuff.  When there was no multi-player and it basically forced developers to create these wonderful progressive campaign scenarios and branching stories that were just a joy to play.  Nowadays it feels like flight sims have gotten lazy... focusing zero on any sort of campaign or story and basically just leaving it to multi-player.  Simulations with campaign gameplay and storyline seems very much a lost art to me.

I hear you. Thanks for your opinion, I appreciate it and I'll heed your advice. Lets see how I feel about it after I had some stick time with the free planes.

[p1t1o]

1 hour ago, Dafni said:

Thank you for your thoughts and inputs guys, @dundun92, @XLjedi and @p1t1o, great stuff.

So i have been looking at the game a bit more in depth and what can I say? I need two weeks off, at least! It looks and sounds awesome, almost too overwhelming and detailed. I am afraid with my limited playtime (job, family, ksp, etc) it will take me a long time to climb that learning curve. I'm sure it is a rewarding one though.

I see the base game is free and comes with two planes. (btw, that free base game and pay-for-planes mentality is actually quite nice and fair) But do you have a suggestion for a first DLC plane? Looking for something super easy and forgiving to begin my DCS experience.

cheers

In my opinion, the Mirage 2000C is the easiest. Not least because the real article has advanced fly-by-wire avionics which help to make the plane very easy to fly, almost a point and shoot thing. Thats not to say it doesnt have its intricacies, but you wont find yourself departing from controlled flight or fighting the aircraft very often and you will be able to get it off the ground without too much manual-staring.

However it is an (almost) pure AA craft in-game (the simulated model has limited AG capability, dumb bombs and rockets) so the variety of missions is set by that, and being good at AA I would say is a more advanced activity, so it might not be the best plane for a beginner.

 

The best aircraft for the beginnercould be the A10C, because it is also quite forgiving to fly and has lots of fun weapons and sensors to try out. The free Su-25T I would say is significantly more difficult than the A10C even though they have very similar missions and capabilities, the A10C flies a little less "heavily", and has much more modern avionics and sensors. More modern aircraft ARE more easy to fly and fight, and the A10C is one of the youngest aircraft available.

The A-10C module would be my recommendation for a first one.

 

The hardest aircraft to fly are, well its the helicopters, but the hardest fixed-wings are the older aircraft like the MiG-21 or the Viggen, but on the other hand, they are the most rewarding too. 

***

Some people dont understand, how much fun it is to get in one of these simmed aircraft and merely turn it on.

***

56 minutes ago, XLjedi said:

Be forewarned... these planes are easier to fly IRL than they are in the game. 

Whilst this can easily be true, its not necessarily down to inaccuracy in the flight model or the sim engine, but the fact that you are flying a sim and not actually climbing into an aircraft.

As far as I am aware, all of the DCS modules are tested by pilots with experience flying the simulated aircraft and DCS themselves have very high standard for the data that is used to generate the flight models.

So whilst "these planes are easier to fly IRL than they are in the game", that might be true of ANY simulation, its hard to use it as a criticism of DCS.

 

***

1 hour ago, XLjedi said:

But to me, it feels very much like a clinical study in airframe/flight dynamics with very little game enjoyment unless using it specifically for a head-to-head encounter. 

This is what comes from its simulation character, it is not really in the same genre as "game" flight sims, its a whole new kettle of fish. New because the information just wasnt available in years past, to make simulations this complete.

It doe lack a dynamic campaign or scripted missions (which admittedly, I would certainly enjoy) but yes, the onus is biased towards realism than "fun" so you need to create your own missions of you just want to join a big furball or plink some tanks.

Though its worth noting that there are several purpose-built campaigns available which string together several missions, but you still may be required to do some of the mission design/planning.

Theres also a fairly lively community with plenty of missions, skins, mods etc available.

****

If you're looking for something resembling "X-WIng vs. TIE fighter", this is not the game you are looking for.

Edited May 2, 2018 by p1t1o

[XLjedi]

4 minutes ago, Dafni said:

I hear you. Thanks for your opinion, I appreciate it and I'll heed your advice. Lets see how I feel about it after I had some stick time with the free planes.

In the mean time... spending money on a Flight Control System or Track-IR devices would not be a waste.  Alternatively, I could also recommend Elite Dangerous as an excellent platform that also supports VR (and not to mention it's more fun to play than DCS).

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dafni said:

Thank you for your thoughts and inputs guys, @dundun92, @XLjedi and @p1t1o, great stuff.

So i have been looking at the game a bit more in depth and what can I say? I need two weeks off, at least! It looks and sounds awesome, almost too overwhelming and detailed. I am afraid with my limited playtime (job, family, ksp, etc) it will take me a long time to climb that learning curve. I'm sure it is a rewarding one though.

I see the base game is free and comes with two planes. (btw, that free base game and pay-for-planes mentality is actually quite nice and fair) But do you have a suggestion for a first DLC plane? Looking for something super easy and forgiving to begin my DCS experience.

cheers

I would reccomended FC3 (Flaming Cliffs 3). It comes with numerous aircraft(F-15C, A-10A, MiG-29A/G/S, and Su-27/33) and the main advantage is the easy learning curve. Why? In the other modules, known as full-scale modules, every button and system IRL is there. For example, every cockpit button in the A-10C is clickable, and serves it's RL purpose. In the F-15C (FC3), no cockpit buttons are clickable. Everything is keyboard controlled and only essential avionics and systems are simulated. Also, many steps are simplified. For example, turning on electrical power requires only the press of 1 keyboard button, and the startup procedure has less than 10 steps, and takes <30 seconds. In the full-scale modules, the startup procedure has many more steps, and is more realistic. That's the main difference between FC3 level aircraft, and the full-scale modules. Also, I would reccomended you try something like the standalone F-15, or Su-27, if you are unsure. They're identical to the FC3 ones, and are only $9.99.

My personal favorite is the F-15C. The avionics are relatively simple to learn, and you have much less instruments cluttering the cockpit, unlike the Russian ones. Additionally, it is easy to fly, and even when you make mistakes, it is relatively forgiving, thanks to the power of the engines. Also, with proper training, it dominates BVR, and matches with others WVR.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Guest

[XLjedi]

30 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

Whilst this can easily be true, its not necessarily down to inaccuracy in the flight model or the sim engine, but the fact that you are flying a sim and not actually climbing into an aircraft.

As far as I am aware, all of the DCS modules are tested by pilots with experience flying the simulated aircraft and DCS themselves have very high standard for the data that is used to generate the flight models.

So whilst "these planes are easier to fly IRL than they are in the game", that might be true of ANY simulation, its hard to use it as a criticism of DCS.

Perhaps...  where I see DCS (and sure other flight sims too) faltering is they focus on the raw mechanical simulation aspects but neglect making any sort of adjustment for the human element.  There are some fine motor skills along with seat-of-the-pants feedback that could make the simulations actually feel more real.  It's almost like they need an adjustable cockpit bot with user editable slides.   But, as I said, I haven't tinkered with them in a while, so they may very well have incorporated it in some way.

...and of course, the dynamic campaign is still a long lost artform.   BUT we do have infinite replayable one-off user missions...  meh.

Edited May 2, 2018 by XLjedi

[p1t1o]

27 minutes ago, XLjedi said:

Perhaps...  where I see DCS (and sure other flight sims too) faltering is they focus on the raw mechanical simulation aspects but neglect making any sort of adjustment for the human element.  There are some fine motor skills along with seat-of-the-pants feedback that could make the simulations actually feel more real.  It's almost like they need an adjustable cockpit bot with user editable slides.   But, as I said, I haven't tinkered with them in a while, so they may very well have incorporated it in some way.

...and of course, the dynamic campaign is still a long lost artform.   BUT we do have infinite replayable one-off user missions...  meh.

I long for the day where we can, at home, get true "seat of the pants feedback"!

Though I find it hard to criticise DCS, it achieves what it sets out to do to a very high standard, I do miss dynamic campaigns.

Here's to F22 ADF and EF2000, may we see your ilk once more in this life.

[XLjedi]

5 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

I long for the day where we can, at home, get true "seat of the pants feedback"!

Nah... not like that...  I'm just saying there should be like a bot sitting in the cockpit representing "Me" with some user adjustable controls to account for some human instincts that can be dialed up/down.  A crude example might be automatically coordinating rudder with aileron or having a slider for it.  There are other things they could do as well.  This way you don't dumb down the rigid flight model, but maybe relax the sterile feel of the raw math simulation.

Edited May 2, 2018 by XLjedi

[p1t1o]

2 minutes ago, XLjedi said:

Nah... not like that...  I'm just saying there should be a bot with some user adjustable controls to account for some human instincts that can be dialed up/down.  A crude example might be automatically coordinating rudder with aileron or having a slider for it.  There are other things they could do as well.

Ah, I see. Well I'd say that that isnt really compatible with my idea of what "simulation-type-games" are for. You are right, there are things which make IRL flying a lot easier, such as situational awareness, "seat of the pants" you mention that are very hard to replicate in-sim, but this is a weakness inherent to ANY flight simulator or indeed any game at all that can be mapped to real life.

Here's the thing - some aircraft require flying, so you have to manually coordinate control inputs. If it did it for you, you may as well put laser guns on your MiG. But as talked about in posts above, there are easier and difficult aircraft in DCS. The mirage 2000C for example, has an advanced fly-by-wire control system and will automatically coordinate ALL control surfaces, limit your ability to depart controlled flight and account for various flight conditions like AoA, wind, speed etc. I describe it as a "point-and-shoot" aircraft. The difference between this and non-FBW aircraft is stark.

I suppose something like what you are looking for is represented by the AI radio system, so wingmen calling out contact, an AWACS you can ask for vectors etc. Its not perfect by any means, but its something. I might even say that the radio system is the weakest part of DCS.

Its not exactly what you are looking for, but sortof relevant -  there are some two-seater aircraft on the books for future DCS modules and there are apparently attempts to make a useful AI "backseater".

[XLjedi]

@p1t1o  ...you limit the definition of "simulation type game" to the mechanical.  Pretty sure most of your simulations have stuff like pilot blackout/redout modelled.  Some of em, you can even hear yourself breath heavy or grunt during G's.  Auto head swivel cameras...   I'm just saying that sort of thing, along with automated rudder control (another common one) should be ascribed to a bot sitting in the cockpit representing you as the pilot.  They haven't really advanced this element too far, and it really should be the next logical step.  Along with a number of additional settings to make things like controlling a craft during landing and refueling more on par with IRL difficulty.

Anyway, good chat!  I may have to dust off my DCS P-51 now and take it out for a spin! 

Edited May 2, 2018 by XLjedi