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Lion Air 610 Crash - 737 Auto Trim

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8 hours ago, wizzlebippi said:

The regs are written in blood. Never forget that.

^THIS.

SO. MANY. LESSONS. have been paid for in blood. Just this week in my Airframe Systems class, we were talking about fuel tank inerting and how the TWA 800 accident led to the requirements for it. (AC 120-98A, if you're interested in reading the actual regs involved.) The week before that, we looked at the crash of ValuJet 592 as we studied chemical oxygen generators. Air travel is as safe as it is because of the lessons paid for in blood. And sometimes, those lessons pay off by saving lives. Look at Aloha Airlines Flight 243, or United Airlines Flight 811. Both of those aircraft were able to land due to lessons learned from the DeHavilland Comet crashes.

I won't stop anyone from being armchair accident investigators. I will, however, remind you that if your only source is mainstream media, they will ounce on any and every last little detail that makes a mountain out of a molehill, because they want to scare the everloving c**p out of you to keep you watching them. (That's actually good advice for everything they do, but that's not the point of this thread...) They have ZERO interest in telling the full, unbiased story.

18 hours ago, mikegarrison said:

The more someone *actually* knows about something like this, the fewer specifics they will post in an open forum. Wait for the NTSB reports.

Yep. Actual experts will sit tight and not say anything to the media that can be misconstrued, for reasons I detailed above. The "experts" you see on talk shows and news reports, however, are being paid to provide their opinions to the media outlets. I certainly acknowledge their experience and wisdom, but I don't trust their assessments much unless backed by hard evidence.

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“On no other 737 is there a system based on the angle of attack that will move the (horizontal tail) trim. That is unique to the MAX,” said Cox, the CEO of the aviation consultancy. “I was surprised that a single angle of attack indicator could cause the activation of this system.”

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/faa-follows-boeings-737-safety-alert-with-an-emergency-directive/

note the description of the "auto-trim" feature for the 737 is completely wrong in this article. The STS is the exact opposite of auto-trim - more like an anti auto trim.

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5 hours ago, MaverickSawyer said:

I will, however, remind you that if your only source is mainstream media, they will ounce on any and every last little detail that makes a mountain out of a molehill, because they want to scare the everloving c**p out of you to keep you watching them

Our media here were having people straight from indonesian NTSC (KNKT). It was brilliant, actually - practically a public physics lecture live on national TV outlet. (he only discussed the basic operations of aircraft, didn't say a word about how it might have crashed.)

Though I'll have to say that you can't lie to your customers either (which in this case is the layman people, the average joes who use aiplane for their transportation needs). If you lie to them you're just putting yourself in a heap of garbage as well.

Edited by YNM

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8 hours ago, YNM said:

Our media here were having people straight from indonesian NTSC (KNKT). It was brilliant, actually - practically a public physics lecture live on national TV outlet. (he only discussed the basic operations of aircraft, didn't say a word about how it might have crashed.)

Though I'll have to say that you can't lie to your customers either (which in this case is the layman people, the average joes who use aiplane for their transportation needs). If you lie to them you're just putting yourself in a heap of garbage as well.

I can't speak for media outside the US, so maybe your country actually has journalistic integrity? God knows we've lost ours years ago in pursuit of profits.

And they don't lie... They simply don't tell the full truth if a partial truth can be spun into a fearmongering headline.

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7 hours ago, MaverickSawyer said:

And they don't lie... They simply don't tell the full truth if a partial truth can be spun into a fearmongering headline.

Rest assured I'd have detected them at point blank if I saw it.

If anything, the person from KNKT was kind of live commentating on the salvage operation. I saw a glimpse of the whole affair when they lifted up one of the engine cores. It was like the engine core had been released off the cowling.

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sensors are cheap, 737s are expensive. better to stack those sensors than crash those planes.

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8 hours ago, YNM said:

Rest assured I'd have detected them at point blank if I saw it.

If anything, the person from KNKT was kind of live commentating on the salvage operation. I saw a glimpse of the whole affair when they lifted up one of the engine cores. It was like the engine core had been released off the cowling.

Again, I can only speak to American media outlets. YMMV.

That's... kinda to be expected. The engine core is one of the strongest parts of the aircraft, with only the wing box and the landing gear struts being comparable.

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On 11/11/2018 at 5:31 PM, MaverickSawyer said:

I can't speak for media outside the US, so maybe your country actually has journalistic integrity? God knows we've lost ours years ago in pursuit of profits.

And they don't lie... They simply don't tell the full truth if a partial truth can be spun into a fearmongering headline.

Have an feeling media is mostly after clicks this day.
And yes this is an 150 year old problem, however then it was newspapers sold. 
 

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I saw a blurb about that on the news last night. Major US airlines like SW Air  are complaining that their pilots were never told about the difference or how to counteract the system when it went haywire 

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2 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said:

I saw a blurb about that on the news last night. Major US airlines like SW Air  are complaining that their pilots were never told about the difference or how to counteract the system when it went haywire 

They should have just hit Ctrl-X... reset that trim. 

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