Should kerbals be reworked? If so, how/why?

[mcwaffles2003]

We spend a lot of time on here talking about the new mechanics, physics, parts, yadda yadda yadaa. We dont talk much about kerbals and their role though. Personally, I feel there's a lot that could be put into them, but I also understand and like the simplicity of them.

A few more questions:

1. Should they have different personalities (more than just 2 bars that don't change their behavior)? If so, should their personalities affect more than their expressions?
2. Should there be more roles for them? If so, what?
3. Should they be able to take on multiple roles simultaneously or be trained?
4. What new roles do you want them to take on?

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by mcwaffles2003

[steve_v]

IMO they're lemmings, but only because they don't have much purpose in the game, you get infinite of them from rescues, and you don't have to invest much in keeping them alive.

Customisation I don't care about (maybe more random variations?), but more activities for kerbals would be nice.

[magnemoe]

Personality should be set or random for random kerbals. It had been nice to change their appearance, at least have space suits who shows professions. 

[Guest]

A role-playing aspect for kerbals could certainly add flavour to the game. In a perfect world with unlimited time and resources, sure why not? But in the world we actually live in, nah, there are more important things.

[DStaal]

It's a fine line.  Kerbals need to be interesting enough to be an actual presence in the game, and interesting enough that you try to save them - but disposable enough that you can write it off if you lose a dozen.  Personality-wise, I think it's important that they maintain the 'Oh, wow! That almost worked!  Try it again!' attitude. I wouldn't mind a *little* customization, just so I can tell Bob from Bill, but the main thing is that there needs to be just enough reason to keep them around for you to see their faces.

[jimmymcgoochie]

From what I've seen and read about KSP2, Kerbals are going to have a lot more to do primarily because of the colonisation aspects of the game. If their personalities make a tangible difference rather than just 'veteran' gives an orange suit (no idea what 'badass' does, I haven't been able to see any difference and likewise the sliders for courage and stupidity) and there was more of a story in the game instead of "here's some parts, go build some rockets and stuff" then they could become less expendable and more valuable. 

I'd like to see some kind of specialisms aspect to the rather broad term of 'pilot', 'engineer' and 'scientist' - there's a difference between flying a crop duster biplane, a 747 with hundreds of passengers and a Space Shuttle, after all! Differing specialities would have different perks e.g. a geologist would get more science from running experiments on and about the ground whereas a botanist would get more science from plant-related experiments (and possibly life support systems, which I think will also be important in KSP2) but irrespective of whether they're landed, flying or in space. Some pilots could be specialists at atmospheric or vacuum flight, and engineers could be specialists that gave bonuses to e.g. wheels or resource converters/mining. Whether that's tied into the existing XP system or completely separate is another matter entirely.

[JamesL86]

I'd really love it if the kerbals actually had to perform, or help perform, missions.

I'm one of those players that use a lot of automation mods like MechJeb etc.  I get a lot more fun out of designing vehicles and mission profiles vs. actually operating the mission myself.  I would be beside myself if kerbals in each category could run a mission and that mission success be based on kerbal skill/level vs. difficulty of the mission.

This could also be a way of sidestepping some of the issues with running missions simultaneously.

Please give me a tiny aspect of "The Sims" in KSP. 

[mattinoz]

If there is variations then Kerbals born in off world colonies should be different or at least be more likely to show certain traits based on the planet.

So if there is a height range then Duna Kerbal would tend to be taller in the range, but Mun kerbals might be skinnier as food isn't going to be as mineral rich to support the extra height. Minmus kerbals plump from all the Icecream. and so on, etc, etc,....

[kerbiloid]

Afaik, the Kerbals originate from toys being strapped to the amateur rockets to bring teh drama.
So, probably their personality was not on the first place by design.

Kerbals may have military ranks to be promoted after successful missions, and the player should punish them after failed ones (because they failed his attempt to perform a successful mission).
On the Dres there should be a re-education labor camp named "Canyon" for the bad Kerbals to make them good. (Btw it brings a reason to fly to Dres).

An Emperor's Secret Order like in Tie Fighter looks also nice.

Make KSP RPG.

Edited February 26, 2020 by kerbiloid

[Xd the great]

On 2/25/2020 at 7:59 AM, JamesL86 said:

I'd really love it if the kerbals actually had to perform, or help perform, missions.

I'm one of those players that use a lot of automation mods like MechJeb etc.  I get a lot more fun out of designing vehicles and mission profiles vs. actually operating the mission myself.  I would be beside myself if kerbals in each category could run a mission and that mission success be based on kerbal skill/level vs. difficulty of the mission.

This could also be a way of sidestepping some of the issues with running missions simultaneously.

Given how often kerbals crash their rocket...

Just kidding, but devs needs some balancing between professional astronauts and kerbalness.

On 2/24/2020 at 6:15 PM, mcwaffles2003 said:

Should we care when we crash with them?

*Smily pressing yes button.

*Think about the thousands of times I strand and maim them accidentally.

*Think about the millions of kerbals who died testing out my totally safe contraptions.

*Think about the joy I have watching Danny2462's videos.

*Sheepishly press the no button.

[JamesL86]

29 minutes ago, Xd the great said:

Given how often kerbals crash their rocket...

Just kidding, but devs needs some balancing between professional astronauts and kerbalness.

I guess that's kind of my point though.  Kerbals never crash their rockets.  We crash them.  The kerbals are just helpless/useless passengers. 
I've gone back and forth over this many times over the years.  I've had whole careers where I barely launched any crewed missions.  I've also had huge multi-planetary colonizing careers.
In both cases I always came to the same conclusion.  Kerbals need to be able to do things themselves and not just be action figures for us to play with.

I've been able to partially deal with this aspect using various mods that let me fool myself into thinking they are acting on their own.  Mods like MechJeb for example. 
Ultimately however it gets to a point where I end up reverting back to unmanned missions for most things.  If all the kerbals do is look cute then we might as well not have them and all go play Simple Rocket 2.

I sincerely hope that this issue is resolved in KSP2.  Otherwise I doubt I'll get anywhere near the 2000-3000 hours I got out of KSP1.

[Xd the great]

30 minutes ago, JamesL86 said:

Kerbals need to be able to do things themselves and not just be action figures for us to play with.

Agreed. More science should be available to be done by kerbals and kerbals only. Automated probes can do other types of science.

Measuring the temperature? Probes can do it. But analysing surface samples? We need Jeb.

[Lord Aurelius]

Kerbals definitely need to have a greater role in KSP2, we need to care more about them, and we should be able to fully customize our Kerbals.

For greater roles, obviously more ground science experiments make sense, along with KAS style interactions. Also maybe have large colony parts like rocket factories and hydroponics facilities that require a certain number of Kerbals to operate. Maybe even some skill trees for Kerbals that give bonuses to science returned, parts that can be fixed, and piloting skill. Or maybe they're a showman and generate additional reputation for everything they do.

For customizability, have a Kerbal creator on the main menu where you can create your "hero" Kerbals that can be used for a career, or even show up randomly in the list of available Kerbals to hire. This creator would allow appearance, personality and possibly even skills/other bonuses to be customized.

These both lead directly into caring more about them. If you've got an experienced, high level Kerbal you'll want to keep them alive. Also maybe have reputation penalties for killing Kerbals (just like RL), providing further incentive to give those little guys extra TLC, and maybe send an unmanned mission first to verify they're not being sent to their doom.

[Guest]

If they wanted to add another aspect to invest you into the game, trying to increase people’s attachment with Kerbals would be one thing to do I guess. Just like we got invested in The Martian by following Matt Damen’s struggles, if we had to pay attention to the struggles of the Kerbals we might feel more nostalgia about our past missions with them, and be more concerned about their wellbeing. But this would need a large reimagine of the game imo, to have a greater focus on doing things actually as a Kerbal rather than as a plane with a Kerbal core tucked away inside somewhere. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Guest

[JamesL86]

I think what I'd want if I could make a specific recommendation is something like the mod Kerbal Space Transport System.

However I'd like the success of the mission to be based on the complexity of the said mission combined with the experience and personality of the kerbal(s) performing it.

Given the ability to create mission profiles ourselves could also allow a means of creating our own contracts instead of relying on pregen ones.  However, from a game design perspective we would need the ability to "drop in" on the mission if we want to as well.  I don't want to be deprived of the option to fly something myself if need be.

[Xd the great]

18 hours ago, JamesL86 said:

we would need the ability to "drop in" on the mission if we want to as well

Nice idea. But please, option to make kerbals more reliable in the difficulty settings.

Spoiler

*Drops into launch

*Kerbals smashing buttons and screaming

*Rocket does spins and pull some serious gees, damaging a space station nearby

 

[JamesL86]

4 hours ago, Xd the great said:

Nice idea. But please, option to make kerbals more reliable in the difficulty settings.

Yea I think that would be fair.  Though I am also imagining that reliability would be based on the kerbals doing training before launch as well as the overall experience level of the kerbals.
Think about the way that kerbals currently gain levels based on the SOIs they have been to.  This could just be a more complex and rich extension of that system.

[sturmhauke]

I'd prefer it if the kerbals were less clumsy. Sure, it's cute to watch them stumble around like kittens high on catnip, but it's also agonizingly slow getting them to grab onto a ladder or whatever.

[mcwaffles2003]

I'd like to be given an option to care for them while still having the element of disposability. Id like to see a greater degree of variance in their appearance at least and further, I hope they can build qualities beyond position (pilot, engineer, scientist) and level. This isn't to say I want them to have a large plethora of detailed characteristics but at least a bit more and perhaps some versatility. I doubt we will see part breakdowns in stock so I hope engineers have a use beyond packing chutes (seriously who repacks their chutes?) and fixing blown tires. Hopefully engineers will be needed in the colony building process and there will be some form of upkeep to demonstrate their usefulness. As far as science goes and scientists I hope we get a greater variety of experiments and our involvement in those experiments will hold greater depth than:

1. Push button
2. There is no 2

Scientists usefulness so far is recharge experiments and sit in a lab, it's honestly not bad just the mechanism for the science itself feels, to me, like it could be more fleshed out. Kerbalism made some good strides in this since their 3.0 update and DMagic has always been there for making a variety of experiments. Pilots are pretty solid, simple but always useful.... so long as there's a reason to send kerbals in the first place. *cough* signal delay and automated maneuvering with probes *cough*

Maybe having some ability cross over would be worth looking into where all kerbals start the same and learn skills to fit roles?

Edited March 2, 2020 by mcwaffles2003

[mattinoz]

2 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

I'd like to be given an option to care for them while still having the element of disposability. Id like to see a greater degree of variance in their appearance at least and further, I hope they can build qualities beyond position (pilot, engineer, scientist) and level.

If you consider Jeb, Bob & Bill all came from the original developers own trials and tribulations with rockets. It would fit the game sprite to me for players to able to have the ability to develop up our own set of veterans we care for. Allows for "red shirt" kerbals and the old seasons cliff hanger as one of the favorites is put in a risky situation.

Tend to agree all Kerbals should start with a rounded range of basic skills.  Specializations to me should crop up as missions, colonies, interplanetary ships demand greater complexity. 

[Dirkidirk]

14 minutes ago, mattinoz said:

 It would fit the game sprite to me for players to able to have the ability to develop up our own set of veterans we care for. Allows for "red shirt" kerbals and the old seasons cliff hanger as one of the favorites is put in a risky situation.

If someone DARES to replace jeb, bill, bob and val with their own FAKES, I Will ANNIHILATE! 

jk

[mattinoz]

35 minutes ago, Dirkidirk said:

If someone DARES to replace jeb, bill, bob and val with their own FAKES, I Will ANNIHILATE! 

jk

Not replace, they'll still be Kerbin Squad but Duna team might get better gigs.

[Dirkidirk]

5 minutes ago, mattinoz said:

 Duna team might get better gigs.

no

[mattinoz]

1 hour ago, Dirkidirk said:

no

Could be why multi-player is restricted to 4 players. Each must have a Squad Veteran on their roaster?

[Xd the great]

8 hours ago, mattinoz said:

Could be why multi-player is restricted to 4 players. Each must have a Squad Veteran on their roaster?

Each player controls one Veteran.

Because of the chaos 4 players can (and probably will) create, no other kerbals are willing to join.