totm june 2018 Work-in-Progress [WIP] Design Thread

[Rune]

Those shuttles are amazing! And the second SSTO by ScriptKitt3h (did you really need such a complicated nick? ) has a body shape that is just great. I'm totally stealing that! Though with the news that the MkIII payload bay is supposed to be ale to carry 2.5m parts... I think I might wait for 0.26 to update mine.

Rune. Yup, confirmed: 0.26 is the update I have been hyped about the earliest.

[RocketPilot573]

Though with the news that the MkIII payload bay is supposed to be ale to carry 2.5m parts... I think I might wait for 0.26 to update mine.

Wait what? The only way that could be don't is to literally make the Mk3 parts bigger. I have use Mk3 cargobay mods before, 2.5 meter tanks are larger than the entire Mk3 fuselage.

Source?

[Rune]

Wait what? The only way that could be don't is to literally make the Mk3 parts bigger. I have use Mk3 cargobay mods before, 2.5 meter tanks are larger than the entire Mk3 fuselage.

Source?

Straight from the horse's mouth, Maxmaps during the last squadcast. You can actually catch it yourself on twitch. And yeah, they are going to have to do a pretty big resize.

[GusTurbo]

Someone said Maxmaps confirmed the much larger Mk3 parts in the latest Squadcast, but I haven't seen or heard any solid recaps from that.

[Majorjim!]

I was looking through all my saves and craft to see what needs fixing and the little DreamChaser I made a while back looks better than before!

I really need to make a new one with the new parts. After I finish my VTOL.

[Kamuchi]

0.25 and auto update in steam nuked my old games, time for sandboxing as science is getting old after a couple of times

Started building a Minmus Karbonite base, but after even a 32t truck bouncing around like it`s nothing, it became a Mun base.

Idea #1 was to have a truck be able to mine and move to a base/build a base around the truck after finding a nice rich&flat position.

Toppling the truck lifter, twice, and toppling my orbital drop ship after bringing the first storage tank down it was time for a small design change.

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I love IR&KAS.

Karbonite might feel abit of a cheat, but would be fun to try and build a base for that and tow an astroid into Mun orbit as launch stage.

[Giggleplex777]

Added the ET and boosters:

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[GusTurbo]

Loving it. Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out a way to shorten that nose.

[Majorjim!]

Loving it. Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out a way to shorten that nose.

Its a beaut Gus! Everytime I see that nose..

[Roflcopterkklol]

Here is what i am working on atm, just starting flight tests now.

Not 100% sure on how far it goes but it should be good for at least a 2 million km orbit and return, is a crew transport ship/exploration ship.

[ProGamerGov]

My Von Braun spacecraft on it's first test voyage to other solar system.

http://imgur.com/a/lazMk#0

Wish someone would make a multiple solar system mod.

Edited October 13, 2014 by ProGamerGov

[Roflcopterkklol]

having some problems getting this thing flying, have a few issues.

I am not using FAR or NEAR btw, probably be a lot easier if i was.

In horizontal flight without SAS on it wants to pitch down, not really a big deal being a high alt flyer but turn the SAS on and it pitches to the left almost uncontrollably, I am thinking the SAS nonsense is maybe because of the 6 SAS units near the engines on the plane, possibly simply because the air is catching it but it should be flowing evenly, heck the thing does not lift off the ground without all the control surfaces it has.

You can fix the pitching down by bringing the centre of lift in front of the centre of mass using downward facing controls at the front of the plane (like the ones already there) but the strange thing is just how far forward you have to bring the COL past the COM for it to stop pitching down, it is almost like the COL is actually a hell of a lot further back than the assembly building is telling me it is.

Download link to craft file if you want to take a look for yourself and give some suggestions.

As a side note i decided to ditch the rapier engines and make it an Air hogger, still has 4 nukes for orbit.

http://www./download/l1u826vv9ebbapa/White+Lightning+SSTO.craft

And a picture for the sticky beaks, probably still a week away from finishing this plane.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Roflcopterkklol

[Cranium]

having some problems getting this thing flying, have a few issues.

I am not using FAR or NEAR btw, probably be a lot easier if i was.

In horizontal flight without SAS on it wants to pitch down, not really a big deal being a high alt flyer but turn the SAS on and it pitches to the left almost uncontrollably, I am thinking the SAS nonsense is maybe because of the 6 SAS units near the engines on the plane, possibly simply because the air is catching it but it should be flowing evenly, heck the thing does not lift off the ground without all the control surfaces it has.

You can fix the pitching down by bringing the centre of lift in front of the centre of mass using downward facing controls at the front of the plane (like the ones already there) but the strange thing is just how far forward you have to bring the COL past the COM for it to stop pitching down, it is almost like the COL is actually a hell of a lot further back than the assembly building is telling me it is.

Download link to craft file if you want to take a look for yourself and give some suggestions.

As a side note i decided to ditch the rapier engines and make it an Air hogger, still has 4 nukes for orbit.

http://www./download/l1u826vv9ebbapa/White+Lightning+SSTO.craft

http://i.imgur.com/1MCBu7O.jpg

And a picture for the sticky beaks, probably still a week away from finishing this plane.

http://i.imgur.com/0V7QK9G.jpg

Holy wings...

You know, the update made those wings far heavier than they were, and you've got a LOT of them. You also have a massive amount of drag with all of those scoop intakes. I think your SSTO needs to go on a diet.

[ScriptKitt3h]

Now while peaceful scientific craft are all fine and dandy, I've always been impartial to warships.

My current WIP:

Coming soon, to a Kerbol system near you...

(Hull's nearing completion, then comes arming it and adding the final little touches, like RCS and other minor goodies.)

Also, I'm considering writing a tutorial on basic warship-building in KSP. Good idea, or no?

[Roflcopterkklol]

Holy wings...

You know, the update made those wings far heavier than they were, and you've got a LOT of them. You also have a massive amount of drag with all of those scoop intakes. I think your SSTO needs to go on a diet.

Yeah i seem to be having a lot of problems with the new wings, using the old wings i would be able to have half as many and just clip a bunch of control surfaces inside to make it infini glide, can not seem to do that with the new wings.

be alright if you could clip enough of the new controls on the inside to make it flyable just cant seem to. hmm.

Without all the wings it will not lift off the run way, just goes straight into the ocean, think you may be pretty damned right about the diet (i just looked the version i uploaded is 400 tonnes!)

As far as air intakes go it probably could stand to lose a couple, have not actually had it above 30km so not 100% sure on how much of an air hog it is going to need to be, im thinking it is going to need at least 80 on intake air though, sitting at a pretty 120 atm.

Something is making me like my .24.2 version of ksp with the sp+ parts more thinking i might rebuild it on there.

On a side note has anyone else noticed the mk3 cockpit is not compatible with the new sp+ parts? the mk2 connector fits unevenly to them.

Edit:

have tried giving it less wings, cant get it off the runway no matter what i do, managed to get rid of 100 tonnes but the lift just doesnt exist.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Roflcopterkklol

[Roflcopterkklol]

Alright so i did this. is about 175 tonnes now, kinda flies, more gets to the end of the run way then you have to pitch up to 80 degree and the thrust keeps it going....

kinda not liking these parts at all, look how ugly it is now this plane would have worked fine in .24.2

[Rune]

Alright so i did this. is about 175 tonnes now, kinda flies, more gets to the end of the run way then you have to pitch up to 80 degree and the thrust keeps it going....

kinda not liking these parts at all, look how ugly it is now this plane would have worked fine in .24.2

http://i.imgur.com/6D8Lme2.jpg

Maybe you should slightly change tactics and build your planes with a bit less than 10 times the required engines. To lift up one cockpit and two passenger cans you could use two RAPIERS/Turbojets, or even a single one if you have enough wings. That would make the plane something between 7 and 15 times lighter, just going by engine weight.

Nor that you even get an amazing performance anyhow. Delta-v (or flying time) is a function of the fuel fraction, not anything else, and itself is largely dominated by the tankage fraction and the T/W of stock engines. You can fiddle a bit with the payload fraction, and use LOW T/W (that is, very few engines) to get a slightly higher fuel fraction, but in your designs payload weight is already almost an incidental, in proportion: you use all of your fuel to lift engines you only use to push against terminal velocity (which is horribly inefficient in the stock souposphere).

Rune. Hope that helps for the next one! I challenge you to do a useful single-engine SSTO.

[Roflcopterkklol]

Maybe you should slightly change tactics and build your planes with a bit less than 10 times the required engines. To lift up one cockpit and two passenger cans you could use two RAPIERS/Turbojets, or even a single one if you have enough wings. That would make the plane something between 7 and 15 times lighter, just going by engine weight.

Nor that you even get an amazing performance anyhow. Delta-v (or flying time) is a function of the fuel fraction, not anything else, and itself is largely dominated by the tankage fraction and the T/W of stock engines. You can fiddle a bit with the payload fraction, and use LOW T/W (that is, very few engines) to get a slightly higher fuel fraction, but in your designs payload weight is already almost an incidental, in proportion: you use all of your fuel to lift engines you only use to push against terminal velocity (which is horribly inefficient in the stock souposphere).

Rune. Hope that helps for the next one! I challenge you to do a useful single-engine SSTO.

It has so many engines so it is able to carry 4 nuclear engines up to 40km using only LF, my beef with small craft is the centre of mass moves on a small SSTO, you have to move fuel around the craft while you are flying where as with a large craft with multiple tanks you can have them all drain over the COM and it never moves.

Plus i do not really know how to make a small craft without clipping a bunch of fuel tanks inside.. heck this started out being a small SSTO....

if the fuel tanks all drained evenly when you have a stack of them lined up it would be fine and i would probably make more small craft but that does not happen... or at least i cant get it to.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Roflcopterkklol

[Rune]

It has so many engines so it is able to carry 4 nuclear engines up to 40km using only LF, my beef with small craft is the centre of mass moves on a small SSTO, you have to move fuel around the craft while you are flying where as with a large craft with multiple tanks you can have them all drain over the COM and it never moves.

if the fuel tanks all drained evenly when you have a stack of them lined up it would be fine and i would probably make more small craft but that does not happen... or at least i cant get it to.

Ok, you might benefit from some hard-won numbers gathered from extensive personal experience: You need roughly two jets for each nuclear engine, if that is all you are carrying for propulsion. Rapiers are OK on their own, but if you are airhogging you'd better pair them with turbojets in 1-1 ratios to lower rocket T/W, since you don't need it and save a chunk of engine mass. Now a very important note on T/W:

Since you do extreme airhogging, you don't care at all about rocket T/W. A single nuke will put an orange tank in orbit for all you care, with that kind of intake ratio (you get apoapsis outside atmo al the time, right?). T/W requiements go up as your airbreathing cutoff speed goes down. Still, consider this: all that airbreathing equipment is worthless dead weight in space. So if you are maximizing range or payload to LKO, then you'd do better to cut on airbreathers and increase the rocket part of the thing. That means T/W of about 0.5 at least if your jet cutoff speed is still above 1,500, about 0.8 or more if you cut jets at around 1km/s... but no more if you want to take the maximum amount of useful stuff into orbit. The sweet spot for ksp tank fractions and stock engines T/W seems to be at cutoff speeds of around 1,700-1,800: you only need about 400m/s to complete the exit out of the atmosphere, and the airbreathing equipment is minimized at reasonable intake ratios (about 4 intakes per engine more or less, though more is usually better).

Now tankage, that is the real meat. We could call that payload too, actually. The idea is you put as much as you can while maintaing enough T/W to go up. This is the main range limit other than isp: what percentage of your craft's weight is fuel once you light the rockets? The critical point is 10,000m: if you can keep climbing there, you can do 1,700m/s at 30kms (or at least 1,500m/s at 25kms), and that's all you really need. Remember, the climb time is more or less irrelevant with respect to range or payload: the weight of the extra fuel is always much less than the weight of extra engines, and by the time you light the engines it's gone anyway.

As to how to put them to avoid large CoM changes, you can always place them symmetrically on both sides of the CoM... or go even more pro, stop normal fuel flow by clipping stuff on the nodes, and figure out a fuel distribution system with fuel pipes (for example, all tanks drain into a distribution tank for VTOLs, and the main engine feeds off that). That trick can balance ANYTHING, and I'm sure you will thank me for suggesting the idea once you learn it.

Rune. I should really dust off my SSTO tutorial project.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Rune

[Keldaria]

heck this started out being a small SSTO....

I can relate to that comment right there. I always start out small and precise then I add a few pieces for style or because I want a different type of functionality, and before I know it I've got another monster sitting in my hanger that I can't seem to get off the ground or make it fly right. I'll be the first to admit some of my favorite rockets are the ones where I force myself to squeeze functionality into small packages resulting in small lights loads, but for some reason when I start making planes I can't help but make them huge.

[Roflcopterkklol]

Rune. I should really dust off my SSTO tutorial project.

Probably would not hurt you do have a lot of know how when it comes to all of these things and i greatly appreciate your advice, ill keep it in mind for future versions i build.

Anywho here is what i whipped up after reading your first post, puts a FL-T800 into a 120km orbit, smallest i could make the thing :/

Seems to be about as useful as i can make a small craft and it did not end up being small anyway lol, weighs 88 tonnes with the payload thinking if i keep going on the design i could make the 120km orbit into a 500km orbit and return.

did manage to keep the part count down from my usual 300+ though, at 145 with the payload, not to bad at all.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Roflcopterkklol

[GusTurbo]

Nothing like some heavy, pointless stripes to liven up a design:

[Rune]

Probably would not hurt you do have a lot of know how when it comes to all of these things and i greatly appreciate your advice, ill keep it in mind for future versions i build.

Anywho here is what i whipped up after reading your first post, puts a FL-T800 into a 120km orbit, smallest i could make the thing :/

http://i.imgur.com/RSBgqfu.jpg

Seems to be about as useful as i can make a small craft and it did not end up being small anyway lol, weighs 88 tonnes with the payload thinking if i keep going on the design i could make the 120km orbit into a 500km orbit and return.

did manage to keep the part count down from my usual 300+ though, at 145 with the payload, not to bad at all.

Already looking much better If I could add something, going by my last post, it would be switching the outboard RAPIERS for turbojets: you shave almost two tons right there, and you can insert to orbit just as well.

Also, don't worry so much about a static CoM right on top of the CoL: as long as the CoL stays in front and you have enough control authority, you are golden. In fact, the more forwards that the CoL is, the more stable your bird is and the easier it will recover if you drop the controls (and it will be correspondingly less manoeuvrable). So it's ok if the CoM moves as you drain tanks, as long as it moves forwards or starts forward enough in the first place. Try emptying tanks in the SPH and seeing what that does, and if control is difficult because you have it too far forward, add control surfaces with a long lever arm: they won't move the CoL much, but they give much more control torque. I prefer to have a backwards-moving CoM, BTW: means the longer the flight is, the more maneuverable the ship becomes, doubly so because it gets lighter, so it becomes more responsive at high altitude. Nothing worse than a ship that gets to the edge of its control ability up there and starts dropping the nose just before you can turn the rockets on! So frustrating... better if it's just good enough to take off, but becomes its best when you need it the most.

Edit: Remember what I said abut low T/W and awesome fuel ratios? Well, I think two turbojets are a bit excessive for this (it's almost a verticlimber), but I can't take one and a half turbojets, and the efficiency of the single nuke means ALL the fuel in the body is payload, plus the cockpit (or 4.4km/s from a stable LKO!). Besides, runway to orbit in less than 15 minutes, that's the one advantage of a slightly high T/W on airbreathers:

Rune. Glad to be of help!

Edited October 14, 2014 by Rune

[Kurotenshi]

So I'm currently having a design binge, decided to redo my old Soyuz, basically started from scratch. Testing it now, with mechjeb (as I always do). Oddly enough, mechjeb refuses to autostage anything on this little thing.

It'll be up on my company page soon (which is currently undergoing major redesign, I ven got a logo now ), among other things. Like the craft from this info-thingy I made with KVV, as well as a version of the real craft that inspired it

[ScriptKitt3h]

Wound up finishing my warship:

It's available on my company thread, the Naval Battle thread under Forum Games, and on the Military Series Submissions thread.