GoSlash27

Physics Student, These restrictions are in place in order to place the focus on the lifter rather than the payload. While I agree with everything you're saying in principle, in practice (for the purpose of this competition) it would blur the lines between payload and lifter and people would game it. Best, -Slashy Gaarst, I like the 2 Thud approach Well done! Since your orbit screen shows 3.01t, I'll call that the payload. *edit* since you have so much leeway on ⌂V, I'm sure you could drain some fuel from your upper stage and add it to the payload tank. The upper stage won't care because it's pushing the same total mass, and total launch weight would remain the same. Can we get 3.02? Best, -Slashy

I was prepping for a caveman launch with some voltronning- in- orbit and the thought struck me: Just how much payload can be orbited in a single launch using caveman tech and limitations? I started this challenge to find the answer to that question. Objective: Place the heaviest inert payload into LKO in a single launch and detach it. The payload may not assist in this and must have a periapsis of not less than 70 km. Restrictions: Caveman tech only, caveman restrictions, single launch. -Caveman tech: Stock level 5 or below parts only. -Caveman restrictions: 18t mass maximum at launch. 30 parts maximum. Vehicle dimensions may not exceed 20m x 20m x 21.2m. No action groups. -Single launch: No voltronning launch vehicles or payloads. -Inert payload: The payload must not assist in any way. It must not provide any thrust, fuel, guidance, electricity, or torque. When using a decoupler or shroud, it must be attached to the launcher. *EDIT* You may not transfer unused fuel from your booster into your payload once you leave the VAB. -Additional: No cheats, no mods, nothing that violates the spirit of the challenge. Here's my entry to get the ball rolling: http://s52.photobucket.com/user/GoSlash27/slideshow/KSP/Caveman challenge/130Lifter "RockChucker" 2.95t payload, 17.963t at launch. I'm hoping somebody can break the 3t barrier. Gaarst was the first to break this. Good luck!, -Slashy Leaderboard 1) Cunjo Carl Huck 4.28t 2) Gaarst ROcket 10 3.66t 3) GoSlash27 Gustav III 3.25t 4) Gaarst ROcket 1 3.01t 5) GoSlash27 RockChucker 2.95t 6) 7) 8) 9) 10)

memes in space, In career mode, you are constrained by mass, physical dimensions, available parts, and cost. In sandbox, anybody can build a behemoth. The real skill is in building an efficient lifter. In both cases, weight is key. That starts with not bringing stuff you don't need, like RCS and thrusters. IRT the OP, If it's impractical to rotate one or both vehicles, or my docking port isn't aligned with my thrust, then I use RCS. Otherwise I don't bother. Best, -Slashy

Physics Student, An Eve return is crazy- difficult, especially if you don't do it from the highest mountain. Best, -Slashy

I was crunching numbers and ruminating, and I began to wonder just how much payload it's possible to chuck into orbit in one shot with caveman tech. Sounds like a challenge... Best, -Slashy

Well... I don't have my numbers with me, but... Figure a capsule with no monoprop, 4 panels, a chute, ablator, and decoupler weighs somewhere between 1.02 and 1.22 tonnes, depending on how much ablator you put on it. A Spark with 3 tanks can push that 2,100 m/sec DV, which is plenty to get to the surface of Gilly and back. The orbital stage weighs 2.8 tonnes, or 2.9 tonnes with decoupler. A 2 stager at caveman level can orbit that mass within the 18t pad limit. Terrier with 5 tanks upper stage and Reliant with 17 tanks comes in at a hair over 17 tonnes. Feel free to try that combo on Minmus. It should bring you home with plenty of gas. *edit* yeah, I just tried that combo in sandbox. My orbital stage wound up in LKO with 2099.8 m/sec DV, and my insertion wasn't very efficient. Best, -Slashy

I was crunching numbers and weighing my options for the next flight. Gilly is do-able in a single manned launch, but Ike has an earlier window. Unfortunately, Ike is at the ragged edge of the capabilities of caveman tech in a single launch with zero margin for error, so I'd have to Voltron in orbit with a pusher. If I do that, then Duna becomes a realistic target, giving me a 2- fer on upgrades. So that's what I'm going to try. I propose sending a kerbal to Duna before this year is out and returning him safely to Kerbin... Best, -Slashy

I have landed on Minmus, earning my first upgrade. I will spend it on the tracking station, which will give me patched conics and improved comms. Both flyby probes are on their way home. Now to plan what may be the most difficult phase of this challenge for me; a manned landing and return from Gilly. Best, -Slashy

My no-frills Mun probe has landed. No upgrades for this one. The Minmus lander is on it's way, and the flyby probes still haven't arrived in Minmus' SoI yet. Best, -Slashy

Well.. I got a little done tonight. Watched my jettisoned stages deorbit from the previous Caveman challenge and I've sent up my Munar landing probe. Baby steps, I guess... Best, -Slashy

I haven't done a single thing on this challenge. Haven't been playing KSP at all lately... My plan right now is to land dumb probes on the Mun and Minmus, take the patched conics for the tracking station, then launch a manned return mission to Gilly. Since most of my progress will come from unmanned probes, my main concern will be communications. Best, -Slashy

I'm not a cheapskate and would be more than happy to buy DLC, *but*... I keep my installation bone- stock in order to have maximum commonality with other players. Best, -Slashy

I use it when I need it and drain it when I don't. For many craft, the command pod/ cockpit carries just the right amount of monoprop for the mission and I don't have to add a tank. Best, -Slashy

Career with occasional testing in sandbox. I find career far more challenging and that's where the fun comes from. I don't find myself grinding for cash on unwanted/ silly contracts. About the only time the game slows down for me is waiting on transfer windows. Best, -Slashy

wumpus, This is true. I personally use the LV-N for exactly that job because I'm into the whole Von Braun "STS" style of play. The reusability of the the space tugs helps to defray the buy- in cost and makes it worth doing. But even in that case, the mission of the stage is defined. High DV and a single stage. The LV-N is ideal here simply because the other engines can't perform that job. My point is that when comparing 2 engines for the same role you shouldn't decide based on which can generate more DV, but rather which makes a lighter and cheaper stage. Best, -Slashy

While I agree with the sentiment about cosine losses and low t/w, I always try to discourage this line of reasoning. An ideal stage design doesn't have more engine than it needs or more fuel than it needs. It's mission has been defined and it's the lightest, cheapest assembly that will accomplish the task. Looked at that way, the ability to generate more DV isn't an advantage in and of itself if you don't actually *need* the excess DV. For missions below 2 km/sec DV and 0.5g minimum acceleration, the LF&O stages are not only way cheaper than the NERV, but also lighter. Most travel in KSP can be accomplished with less than 2km/sec DV per stage, so it's a rare instance where the NERV is actually worth the cost in terms of dollars per tonne. Analyzing it in terms of "which can generate more DV" is getting the design process backwards. Best, -Slashy

xendelaar, Oh, definitely no offense taken! I usually don't bother with aesthetics, but I like to do one shuttle replica for every new version of KSP (shuttles are hard). My main reason for wanting the interim class is for career. I'd prefer to send my scientists up with pilots instead of probe cores. Best, -Slashy

What I'd really like to see is 1.875m parts. That way the boosters would look right on shuttles, we could have correct layer- caking on Saturn replicas, 2 kerbal "gemini" capsules (good for early career without resorting to probe cores), 2 kerbal landers, etc. I know "there are mods for this", but I believe it should be stock. Best, -Slashy

For simple LFO 2 stagers to orbit, here is a list of "best" combinations Pyld Upper/ Lower <.14t Ant/ Spark .14-1.4t Spark/Reliant 1.5-2.5t Terrier/ Reliant 2.6-4.3t Terrier/ Skipper 4.4-7.9t Aerospike*/ Skipper 8.0-13t Aerospike*/Twin-Boar 14-18t Poodle/ Twin-Boar 19-25t Skipper/ Twin-Boar 26-47t Skipper/ Mammoth * The Aerospike was selected for these cases because it makes a lighter upper stage, but it's an expensive engine. You'd really be better- off with a Poodle here for total cost. Best, -Slashy

The "best" engine is whichever one makes the lightest/ cheapest stage. It depends on your payload, environment, and DV/TWR requirement and varies far too much to point at a single engine. Best, -Slashy

pretorian28715, It must be pretty screwed up, 'cuz I can't tell which equations are missing Try this link: http://www.braeunig.us/space/orbmech.htm It covers pretty much everything you need for interplanetary flight. If you find it useful, drop a quarter in @OhioBob's tip jar. Best, -Slashy

In my case it's a mostly arbitrary rule; None of my stuff is passenger certified unless a kerbal has the ability to control it. This ensures that I cannot lose control of the vessel due to loss of power or signal. My supply SSTOs have no crew capacity. Not for extra DV, but for extra cargo capacity. Best, -Slashy

Still sorting out how to attack this. Clearly, my first interplanetary trip must be manned because the antennas needed for probes are R&D level 2. I plan on upgrading my tracking station with my Mun/ Minmus "scooby snack". Finally, I don't send kerbals on one- way trips, so my first target is either Ike or Gilly. I'll have to double- check the math, but I believe Gilly is the easier of the two. So Mission: We must commit ourselves before the year is out of sending a kerbal to Gilly and returning him safely to Kerbin... Best, -Slashy

Now that I have my 1.3.0 basic caveman finished, I'll have to give this a try. I really don't like the idea of going to Duna without patched conics, so I'll wimp out and visit Mun/ Minmus before proceeding. Silly question: Do the landings have to be manned? The rules aren't clear on that. Best, -Slashy

Nexus24680, The spreadsheet should ideally be much more user- friendly if you can manage it. Ideally, it shouldn't require any research or calculation on the part of the user. For example, the planetary transfer calc should need nothing more than planet names and orbit altitudes as inputs. Also, feel free to use the functions in the spreadsheet I gave you to display transfer DV, gate orbits, and window intervals. Nice clean layout! Best, -Slashy