silverfox8124

Dev Update: We're working on fixing stuff up, mainly correcting calculations and stufferies. Fun Fact: If you were to have a cell resolution of ~1cm^3 it would result in 1.0995116277762E13 cells per layer, and would mean about 8,815,220 layers, which in total memory usage would add up to: ~46.525ZettaBytes. It would also take (at default 50 cells/tick, 50 ticks/s) 3.876974756562125506×10^16 seconds, 4.48723930157653415×10^11 days 1.4752567566826961589×10^10 months 1.2293806305689134658 billion years 12.285643925820610006 million centuries 1.2285643925820610006 million millennia 1.2293806305689134658 eons 0.08781290218349382 universe ages Mind you the age of the universe is: 14 eons So if you have more data than exists, a tenth of the lifespan of the universe, go HARDCORE and run grid level 20 at 0.01m layer resolution. HARDCORE USERS ONLY

Dev Update!: Progress is coming along, we are tackling errors down one by one, tweaking the values that are fed to the sim and making sure it can handle variances in inputs as well.

Yes, the mod is still in development. There's a lot of sorting out we have to do with numbers. I'm not going to ship out something that doesn't work, and I'm going to make sure it works at least 99% before shipping it. We still have a lot of testing to go through. Sorry to say but yeah, this will take some time.

Dev Update! As I've been chugging on it all day, venturing through NaNLand and Infinity cave, I've come to a crossing in which I cannot for the life of me cross on my own. With such, I'm going to wrap it up for today and resume progress when my team returns.

Dev Update! I've picked up KWS again recently and its starting to come along. I've gotten the basics down and am slowly pecking away at the errors that come up. Testing is coming along well though. @RYU AZUKU99 The mod does not work at all with 1.0.5. So expect it to just straight up fail.

I made a mod that is a stopwatch. It allows you to do stopwatch-ey things. the asterisk ( * ) beside the times in the laps indicates that you stopped the timer, and then resumed it, so as to prevent cheating. DOWNLOAD: https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/1404/KerbalTimer Source: https://github.com/wased89/KerbalTimer All Rights Reserved ~SilverFox8124

@GorillaZilla, the previous versions of KWS that have had wind in it had used the structural parts to makeshift sails, it was alright, but the hydro-dynamics in KSP weren't all that good at the time, and prevented sailing from really being a thing without high winds. However, sailing should come naturally when KWS has it's stuff together.

@LeandroTLZ, I will have to take a look into that. Thank you for the report.

@EladDv, it is indeed an idea, but not one I would employ. If I can have the accuracy I want and maintain so during timewarp, then I'll just have that model in use, not two different models. There are a few suggested and thought of methods of going about this, and I will explore them more deeply when the time comes. However right now I am focusing on my college work, and getting this paper model into code and making that work. ~SilverFox8124 - - - Updated - - - Also, on the note of people being slightly uneasy about weather situations always being the same given the same conditions; there isn't much I can do about that. The only thing I *could* do is do a seed thing, in which I could vary the initial conditions of the system(sun position when starting, slightly altering the cell temps around, wind speeds). But that's about all I could do in that department. ~SilverFox8124

@LeandroTLZ, I've looked through the files and the settings file says that the PlantFlag type is not blocked. CF is also removing the Plant Flag contracts because of the Funds Given for Completion are too low. Raise that number and the problem should go away.

@mysteriosmind, Yes, the system should give you the same results given the same situations, it's simulatory instead of predictive. However, there are inaccuracies to the model as I've been simplifying it and going over other things. These errors will accumulate and produce different results. I don't know much the player could do to influence the weather, as irl it's taken the globe many years to have an impact on it. Leaving it up to the player to run their computer overnight isn't something I'd like to do, as users can be unreliable and the comps could shutdown or the program could be closed. I can assure you that I am working on solutions to get this done. ~SilverFox8124

Dev Update! I have stumbled across a quite pleasant idea for solving a few problems with the way the system is set up. KWS simulations will be run client-side(optionally*) and will be individual to the user, and if attached to a DMP network, they can sync up weather states and times. Players could theoretically fast forward, slow down time, have their own progression and such, but they also have the option of syncing to other players. What this also allows is CPU-forgiveness, which releases the strain of the simulation from the CPU by acting like a server-client operation. Where you are time-locked with another player, and you grab data from them instead of simulating it yourself. With a DMP like situation there will also be a server admin, ops, and other sorts of admin stuff which have access to server side functions and methods and ways of changing how the server is. The only problem left to figure out would be how to go about time-warp efficiently. ~SilverFox8124

the output log is under KSP_Data in your KSP folder, and the settings.cfg is located under ContractFilter's folder in Gamedata

@LeandroTLZ, I need your settings file and an output log please.

@AdmiralTigerclaw, I was thinking that as well, it is so far the best idea I have come up with, and has arised, but then comes the whole memory thing again. Because I'm storing not just live weather and the buffered(to be updated copy of the live map) but also several live maps which span every minute up to 7 days, which is ALOT OF MEMORY, even for a standalone application. Not to mention I must run the model quite fast to go faster than 1 second/s. I also need a way to predict where things will be in terms of orientation of the planets, the sun angle and position, things like that, and that needs to run live alongside the 1:1 model. If I could get a way to interpolate the weather conditions between somewhat large gaps in time, then I could "Easily" do timewarping. It is however our best shot. I said this wasn't as easy as you may have thought, and hopefully you're starting to see why. ~SilverFox8124

@AdmiralTigerclaw, No, I haven't transferred all of the code from the paper model to a code model, I'm still doing some final prep before that happens. But I can make rough estimates from what I'm seeing and the basics of weather knowledge I have. One thing I do know is that KSP can be CPU intensive on some machines, I find AMD processors to be more susceptible to it. I *am* seriously considering a standalone server that is run alongside KSP, and the client and server will talk. One thing I know, and is changing because of the upcoming 64bit KSP, but there are memory limits currently, and that was one of the main things that restricted my mod, the other being CPU intensity. I have not run benchmarks on how the current model will run, but I will when I get the chance, and I will definitely give you all an update when that occurs. However for the time being I'm giving it an over-estimation in that I would definitely not want it running inside KSP. I am currently going over things as I put them in and working on optimizing and thinning things out to make them run more smoothly. (Mainly thinning out struct size and such to reduce the CPU time taken to do those hard copies) If you have any other questions please let me know. ~SilverFox8124

@AdmiralTigerclaw, I know all of that sounds fine and dandy to you, but it's a big hassle on my end to try and figure all this .... out. One point is I'm not aiming for "hyper-realistic" as that is handled by government + science agency super computers, not run on the average desktop. Second point is that there is only optimization I can do to the model, not much simplification, as I have stated previously, there are basics to weather that need to be accounted for regardless. Third point is that timewarp is an issue here, I have not figured out a good way to do such and have the model retain itself. It's 1000% not as easy as you think it is, and if you think it's so easy, then I suggest you take on this challenge yourself and see just how hard it can be. The main premise behind KWS is predictable weather, and weather that happens for the reason it should, not because it can. Fourth point is the master server situation, yes I have contemplated doing what DMP does and having a server application which can be ran, but it's still up in the air for me until I can get some benchmarking done to get the specs on such. Fifth point is the accuracy. Accuracy in cell size is needed because the weather effects are applied not locally, but across the entire cell. This is just how it is. Any interpolation will take up both memory, CPU time and extra processing and data storage. Sixth point is on accuracy and speed of the model, which can more or less already be changed with the "n cells per tick" option. I plan on having other adjustable settings as well, but again, there is only so much I can do. Seventh point on the uplink and downlink, seriously the server wouldn't care less about if you're connected or not, it will continue running the simulation. Eighth point is an elaboration on how I can't just simplify. Let's say weather just happens because it can. Well rainstorms aren't often seen over deserts, so I'd have to put a condition there to check for that, oh also over the arctics as well. I'd have to make sure that evaporation can only happen over bodies of water and not deserts, so I'd have to have a condition to check for that too. Also tornados don't happen over water, hurricanes do, so there's a condition check for that. To make sure that everything spins the right way according to the spin of the body, there needs to be something for that. It not snowing in the desert there needs to be a check for that. If there is light cloud cover then you shouldn't see massive downpours, in which I'd need a check for that. All of these checks would be done naturally by the model currently in implementation, and so much more natural occurrences as well. You can't just simplify into a whimsical weather model without basically having the same thing as an optimized weather model, but with more potential for bugs. Ninth point on the enjoyability of the accuracy of the model, Yes you do. Without the accuracy, weather just won't happen. Your CPU will be taking up resources to give you .... all in terms of weather action, and it will be wrong as well because the cells cover so much area at that point. Weather is hard to do right, I am doing my best and I need you all to understand that. KWS stands behind predictable weather that happens because it should, not because it can. That is that and that is what I stand by. ~SilverFox8124

@pandaman, oh don't worry about it in general, if all goes well, then you'll definitely feel it if you try and fly through a hurricane

@monstah, it's not that easy. There's a lot of foundation that weather is built from. The main premise of KWS is to add predictable weather. Meaning that weather doesn't happen because it can, but because it should. ~SilverFox8124

@Everyone, Hello!~ I am SilverFox, the head dev of Kerbal Weather Systems. There are quite the few kinks when it comes to weather simulation, and processing power and methodology are among them. I'm working on making a semi-accurate weather model to be used for the ksp planets. I will say this now, yes the mod is intense in it's ambitions, and no, I will not be doing weather that happens for the lulz. Weather happens for a reason and that's what KWS stands behind. Soon enough we should see the basics of my model be put out there as the paper model is more or less finished, it's all about finding the free time and the motivation to copy over the paper stuff into code, as it needs some translation. Any questions you have I will gladly answer. ~SilverFox8124 - - - Updated - - - @Alshain, I'd say that bases don't serve much purpose, but weather has much more of an effect on the game than just surface bases. There's launches, your bases could get damaged, your flights could get hit by lightning or high winds, weather satellites and the science that's there, weather research probes, sailboats! There's so much potential that KWS has. ~SilverFox8124

@colmo, im considering having a special distribution for people who want to run their own servers. However as incredible as the results may be, and the concept of all this weather simulation in game aside, academia wouldn't be too particularly interested in this, as 1)they already do what we do, but infinitely better, and with more accuracy 2)We aren't offering much special that they don't already have. In terms of something meteorologists could study when they're in school and see how the whole weather thing works may be a useful thing, but aside from that I don't see what academia would be interested in from a "We gotta have this" standpoint. If someone wants to run a server dedicated to Duna weather then that's great and I'd love to know so that I can make the server's planet dependant and such so that you can run individual planets instead of all of the planets in a cyclic manner. Any other ideas please let me know, feedback is greatly encouraged ~SilverFox8124 PS. capi3101: Message me in irc and we'll talk more on the subject. PPS. To run a KWS server would take incredible CPU power, rather than RAM, so that's one thing everyone needs to keep in mind.

IMPORTANT DEV NOTE!! To all of those die hard KWS fans(and the not so die hard), we are nearing the completion of the on-paper model(all that remains are optimizations and documenting formulas so I can easily implement them into KWS code). WIth that being said, it is a *very* complex model, we will be hard at work with optimizations and such, but there is only so much we can do. One possibility is that I could have a central server for KWS to run from, and all your KWS clients just grab weather data from there, it would be "easy" to accomplish, however there are costs to paying for a monthly server, which would mean that it has to come out of someone's pocket, and that would very likely be mine. As I am in college right now, money can be a bit tight, so this is where I extend out to my fans and eager beavers for help. Having it run on a server would allow for even more accuracy to be done and wouldn't cause bog downs for your system at home, your system at home could better focus on other mods that require CPU time and even running ksp better as well. The downside to a main server would be that timewarp would be restricted, as I have yet to figure out a way of doing such effectively with the model. So I'd love to hear your guy's input; would you be willing to pay a small fee for KWS to achieve it's goals? ~SilverFox8124

@Solestis, duly noted on the Apply and Close, there was this sort of issue before where I had a separate save button in the gui for saving all types and closing the GUI by accident could remove data and such, it was a mess and I just ended up with when you close the edit all gui it saves all the type data.

@Solestis, I've had plenty of people come to the thread, say stuff is not working, then peace out. It makes it very difficult on my end to work out what the problem is and how exactly to fix it. To clarify, I was not being snarky, just sort of fed up with the amount of issues and error reports that lack proper documentation to help me help you. The bigger issue is you say that the edit all button doesn't save all the info for the contract types, which is very odd. Looking further into the settings file is shows that you have Kerbin as a blocked string, instead of a blocked body. Also a lot of contracts are being deleted because of max funds being set too low. Have you tried upping the maximum funds? Also also, your output log isn't showing the log lines for saving all contract types, which in order to save them, you hit the "close" button on the GUI for the edit all types window. That triggers the saving.

@ThatOneBritishGuy... it was proposed, and I declined it before, and I'll decline it again. Having random weather isn't predictable and you can't use it in any meaningful manner, it'd just be there for aesthetics at that point, there's no science behind it. It feels dirty and fake. I want reliable, predictable weather that should happen a certain way given set parameters. *THAT* is a weather model, predictive or simulated, not some whimsical "I'll make a storm here for the lulz" kind of thing. What you're suggesting is the equivalent of leaving the world's weather at pure chaos. There could be hurricanes in the antarctic, dust storms in the poles, and snow in the deserts. Weather is inofitself a cause-effect relationship, that's how it is, that's how it's meant to be, that's how it shall stay. That being said, if you guys want some random weather .... going on, make it yourselves, feel free to, because I sure won't be making it anytime soon. ~SilverFox8124