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Kergarin

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Posts posted by Kergarin

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted

    1 hour ago, foamyesque said:

    I'm looking at using action-groups to disable the Mammoths and finish up on radially-attached Vectors, but there's a TWR penalty to using Vectors over the Mammoth. =/

    Does it really make a difference in the game if you use one engine on full throttle instead of two on half throttle? 

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted

    15 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

    @Kergarin Separate topic: I've been watching that video, you want to explain that throttle strategy to me?

    I was under the impression that short burns at full throttle were best, that isn't what you're doing. Do you know something I don't? 

    That might be right if you are in orbit and want to change it.

    How would you do that in an atmosphere that always tries to kill you with friction heat while you try to manually hit a 100x100m landing site from 3200m/s without any guidance mods? :D

    If you do periodic burns on landing you will first get so slow that you don't make much use of atmospheric breaking and then the gravity quickly accelerates you so much that you will burn off if you don't do your next burn, you would have to do that repeatedly for the entire landing. I'm always keeping close to the maximum possible speed to maximize aerobraking while I'm focused on aiming at my launchsite.

    On launch its the same thing, you will just burn off if you are to fast, but by cutting off throttle you quickly lose a lot of speed, and that doesn't seem to be efficient to have a mix of accelerating and braking on a gravity turn. Once out of the atmosphere, how do you want to do full throttle precision maneuvers with a few hundred units of fuel on 8 mammoth? :D

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted

    1 minute ago, fourfa said:

    Over in the stock electric aircraft thread, Azimech has an Eve plane.  Looks like a great way to get around Eve, to and from the 7K Base Spaceport.  If I was being sent to Eve, I'd sure as heck want to be stationed at the highest point above the hellish atmosphere too.  A long-term habitation on a mountaintop, ISRU fuel truck for the orbital SSTO, a fast rover, an electric airplane...  sounds fun to me!

    Eve playground taxi :D

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

    that's the whole idea.

    If I'm going to pay to schelp something to Venus, I'd pay extra to land several times. Esp w/ a base.

    Have you eve said what exactly is your final goal or mission plan? Then I could rethink the design :D

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Kergarin

    47 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

    Fair 'nuff, but none of these strike me as "practical" goals. Well.. the *first* one does. I can see a reusable taxi if it can hit several biomes, but this doesn't do that.

    A surface base could be served just as well (and more easily and flexibly) by a disposable lifter and "grand tour" missions are, by nature, impractical.

    Not crapping on the concept, mind you. I've pursued many "impractical" goals myself. I'm just trying to understand the nature of it.

    Best,
    -Slashy

    I can only say why I did it:

    "not because it makes any sense, but because it's hard!" 

    :D

    Well I think I wouldn't use this in career mode, but in fact this ship can reach any place on eve up to sea level, you just need to jump back to that hill before leaving and that's possible from almost everywhere in one launch.

    This place could also be used as spaceport and you can travel to any place on eve using rovers and rocketplanes from there. A fixed position spaceport is not that unrealistic for colonizing a planet I think.

    Also this thing can be further optimized as it got at least 10tons payload from there (maybe much more, never tested... but the remaining fuel in orbit didn't change by adding 3 seats, experiments and isru compared to the naked model).

    My first SSTO was launched from 6.800 and I also have a 2 seats manned version for that. I think it can be tuned to launch from 6.500m, and that makes it able to land on much more sites.

    I'm also have ideas how to land this thing without using fuel, so no isru is required on the ground.

     

    So maybe it really is time for a new eve limbo contest, if this should end here? :D

     

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted

    8 hours ago, foamyesque said:

     

    I'm aiming for a sort of sine curve. The wings are only supposed to be needed to get out to a reasonable horizontal velocity (at which point, due to rocket equation, I've already dumped a bunch of fuel and gotten lighter), at which point I pitch up to do a more traditional ballistic trajectory. I've done this with multistage Eve rockets, and it works just fine, but the TWR curves here are different. The other big thing the wings do is allow for a no-fuel descent.


    Ah well. Back to fiddling!

    The sine curve is exactly what I have tried in my first ~50 plane attempts. I then realized that ascending in a direct line and the go into a gravity turn is much more efficient. After ~100 more attempts I started to test out how rockets work on eve, and quickly gave up the idea to use a plane.

    Since all this was from 6.800m, I have now tested  some of my plane designs from 7.500m, and they do not perform any better than from 6.800.

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted

    54 minutes ago, foamyesque said:

    It's not sea-level SSTO -- not unless you count refuelling hops towards the mountain tops (I don't), and even then the ore concentration next to the oceans on Eve is 0%, so that won't work anyway. But I'm checking on the entry and refuelling process there, not the flight out, which I can do without needing to land on a tiny postage stamp of land.

    The wings allow me to do a 0-fuel landing -- control accomplished entirely through aero surfaces -- and get away with a <1 TWR on liftoff, which saves me a bunch of engine weight. Right now I'm fighting with the landing gear on Eve takeoff; I want to save weight by making them as minimal as possible, but the combination of field takeoff, Eve's gravity, and the physics transition coming off of rails fully fueled are giving me some hassles. I've got 5.15km/s of vacuum deltaV and am carrying a 2.5m ISRU, two fullsized drills, 3 fuel-cell arrays, and 2 large fixed radiators, which gives me an efficient, closed-cycle ISRU unit. Careful fuel-flow design keeps my CoM shift during flight minimized.

    The hopeful end goal is a ship which can land on Eve, get to orbit, and then repeat it indefinitely, without the support of a mothership of any description.

    Have you already tested if it will make it to orbit?

     

    4 hours ago, SingABrightSong said:

    Well then, it appears that you have won Kerbal Space Program. I hate to be "that guy", but is there any chance you'd be willing to share your .craft file? Or are you holding off until you've fully refined the design?

    I'm actually refining it. I'm planning to release some of my designs someday.

    But it's not that hard to rebuild if you have a look at both videos :)

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Kergarin

    23 minutes ago, Sharpy said:

    Boat-truck. Amphibian vehicle :) So that it picks the SSTO from the ocean and drives it to the mountain top.

    Ok, would like to see that :)

     

    I think a balloon or electric helicopter would be good on eve :D

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Kergarin

    I could land at sealevel and then jump to my launchsite to refuel and get back, but I think both does not count as sea level return :D

    A ground based isru truck would save you from having isru on the ssto. But a boat will force you to launch from sea level.

    Maybe an isru tanker plane would be an idea? That could easily reach ever landing site without the problems that wheels do have no eve.

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted

    8 hours ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

    Where is that high flat spot he landed on? (specifically, please)

    I've got these coordinates from Stratzenblitz75 at reddit: -25,-158.45

    They work perfectly for hyperedit.

     

    5 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

     

    FWIW I agree with you; I don't think sea level SSTO can be done, but I'll be thrilled if I'm proven wrong

    Already the difference between 7500m and 6800m is massive... Sea level seems impossible without staging

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted

    31 minutes ago, foamyesque said:

    I know it's a show mothership, but I'm pretty sure he needs its fuel to perform his second descent.

    Or you could use a tanker instead that harvests alone at Gilly and then refuels the lander in orbit. So it doesn't need to be moved around.

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Kergarin

    29 minutes ago, foamyesque said:

    Actually, just to be sure here, Kergain: Your descent is done after refuelling at the orbiting mother ship, right?

    The lander and the mothership do both refuel at Gilly. The mothership then takes the fully loaded lander to low eve orbit. 

     

    But since it's nothing special to move a ship from Gilly to eve, I only concentrated on the lander for now, the mothership might need resizing if it should bring the lander also to moho and so on for a grand tour.

    If you do a late suicide burn, the ship won't need all its fuel to descend. Maybe it can get from Gilly to low eve orbit by a lot of aerobraking with enough fuel to land safe. But since can't leave eve orbit alone after this, it will always need a mothership, so I haven't tested this.

    25 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

    so far even insane parachutes only slow it to 18 m/s on Kerbin, but i'm still workig on the >1 heat shields

     

    IFAIK that's a "show" mothership and he hyperedited that to Eve orbit. (for the video) but hypothetically, yes.

    What speed is that on eve? It will vary.

    Yes, I just didn't want to wait the burntime it would take on my computer to get there on nervs with a 450part ship at almost no framerate :) but the mothership should be able to do this. The worst possible thing would be, that I need to add more fuel tanks. The video is just about the lander and the mothership should show that one is needed to pull it away from eve.

    22 minutes ago, foamyesque said:

    I know it's a show mothership, but I'm pretty sure he needs its fuel to perform his second descent.

    For a second descend they both need to refuel at Gilly again. A mothership that can take the lander plus more than a thousand tons spare fuel for a second descend to eve would be... Gigantic

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted

    23 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

    So, now I'm trying one of these.

    I'm working with a 3/4 scale version: 1000 tons 6 mammoths. (same TWR and dV, less payload) my idea was to remove the ISRU, add a detactable/replaceable inflatable heat shield and parachute it down fully fueled. That may not be possible.

    Kergarin is getting several advantages by burning all the fuel on the way down. The inflatable heat shield is not big enough even for my smaller ship, by using engines to slow down he's not generating nearly as much heat. He has more control than I do, and he's only landing a 270 ton ship, a QUARTER of the smaller one I'm (not) landing.

    So I'm saying ISRU may be the ONLY way to this.

    (all the more congrats)

    I think you will need a lot of inflatable heatshields and an insane amount of parachutes.

    If you either land on that heatshields or mount them on top of your lander, they could assist the parachutes down to landing. But you would have to check if this works, just an idea.

    is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Kergarin

    20 hours ago, astrobond said:

    @Kergarin Just...WOW !!! Really impressive and efficient ship :) Congratulations !!! you just win the 1.1.3 game :wink: 

    Thanks! :) As I already wrote on youtube, your Eve SSTO video gave me the power to keep trying. 

    My first designs were winged too, but it seems a rocket is the way to go in 1.1.3

    11 hours ago, CallisTrOn Entertainment said:

    OK, you won Eve. Now we want to see a nice video of the grand tour.

     

    And if you still won't get bored of the game after this, then you win this game :-)

    This would take some time, my last grand tour took 3 month to develop and execute :confused:

    See: https://youtu.be/FXAzQk01vuw

     

    8 hours ago, foamyesque said:

    Well, progress. I can land it on Eve. It blew apart coming out of timewarp during the ISRU, though . :v

    Maybe it just gets to heavy with the produced fuel,  and then breaks when you return to normal speed/physics?

     

     

     

    Something I have realized now that I had more sleep than the last days: 

    All my plane attempts were done from 6.800m and also this rocket was developed on this height.

    When @Stratzenblitz75 told me there is also a 7.500m launchsite, I already gave up plane designs and was happy that my actual rocket design worked from there.

    It reached orbit with ~10tons of fuel left, and I did not try to scale it down again.

    Maybe it can be downscaled to the half size or less. also a really small single seater should be possible.

    Hidden gameplay utilities

    in KSP1 Discussion

    Posted

    If you want to switch between two or more nearby vessels in mapview and can't get a click on the desired one, you could change the type of the actual vessel in the rename window to something else (if it is not already), and then make this type of vessel invisible in the map view.

    At least that's faster than leaving the game to do this in the tracking station.

    Or is there an easier way?

     

     

    It also took a long time until I realized that you can use mirrored symmetry in the VAB and radial symmetry in the SPH.

     

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