Kergarin
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Posts posted by Kergarin
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@PacThePhoenix: still curious
@Nich: I'm afraid the engine on the tank does break the rules a little. The engines should be part of the SSTO. Really sorry for that
Hm... I don't know if I should try an open design or optimize my closed one first...
Oh and have to do the badge!
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No its ok. I'm really curious and looking forward to see your idea now
. And I think it's important to have some innovative concepts here.
I have added categories to the ranking:
- closed cargo bays for classical designs
- open cargo for some more "crazy" designs
So it's more fair to compare. I think.
When starting this, I had much harder rules in mind. But I have realized, that would lead to all SSTOs looking nearly the same.
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Sounds interesting
that's actually not defined in the rules. Normal level just says you have to land safe at KSC runway.
Maybe you just give it a try?
I didn't expect it to be that hard, to be the one who hast to decide the rules
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Congratulations Nefrums
I'm sorry, but the rules say:
" ... and return your SSTO with full orange tank as cargo to runway."
That means one piece
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Just updated rules and rankings.
Please check if everyone is fine with that
@Nich please check if engineer's report in SPH shows 99.0 or 99.1t
1 hour ago, Nich said:I have been experimenting with an external orange tank but the stiffness is just not there in the SR docking port. Any movement and it starts flopping all over the place
You may use struts, but they won't help on landing.
Even landing with the full orange tank inside the cargo bay is very difficult.
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3 hours ago, Nefrums said:
It is possible but harder to maneuver without RCS, I don't think it should be required.
It would also be hard to determine how much RCS and fuel you need to add for it to qualify, is one truster block wo fuel enough?
I think it should not be required for normal level.
But I'm afraid, it will lead to a frustrating number of quickloads, if everybody is forced to fetch the tank in pro level without RCS if you want to be high ranked.
What about at least 2 thrusters and one tank of any kind, as a rule for pro level? I think this would be fair to everyone, since this a contest about building SSTOs and not about orbital maneuvering.
2 hours ago, eddiew said:Interesting challenge... can I suggest a second category for manned vehicles? Right now you're guaranteed 100% drones on the leaderboard
I will highlight it in the ranking, if it was a drone or manned. So you can see who is the best in both categories.
Else it would be to many ranking lists I think.
1 hour ago, Coga19000 said:So namely, how many... Aerodynamics... can we include on the payload?
I understand what you are planning
I will have to think about this. But I'm afraid we have to allow it, if we don't want all planes to have the same base design.
What do the others think about this?
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@Nich: impressive doing it with just 5 engines!
But to match the rules, it would need a RCS system on the craft or on the cargo. How did you get it out of the cargobay?
Or we could say, that RCS is not needed for first level. I have to think about that. (I will be at 39 parts without it
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You all can make suggestions if you would like RCS in the rules or not.
I'm excited
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Ok
I will create a badge as soon as possible, maybe tomorrow!
Here we go, my entry for normal level:
Z2 Winglift SSTO: 44 parts, 102.3 tons, price 132.803
Ascend was not perfect, but still managed to get to orbit
Updated rules. Informational mods are allowed.
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Just added a third category
Lowest price
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I have edited the details in the first post.
Any other questions or suggestions?
Good luck!
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I think a nosecone would be ok, if it is and stays fixed to the payload all the time.
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Thanks for your interest!
I will edit the rules soon to be more detailed!
Before doing the second part of level 2, you may recover your vessel and launch again from the hangar, so that it is refueled. But the only thing you may change in the hangar for the second part of level 2 is deleting the cargo.
The goal of level 2 is building a SSTO that's so well balanced that it can launch and land with and without heavy cargo.
I thinks it's impossible to build one, that can start twice without refueling at the ground. But if someone can do, that would count als ultimate level 3
Yes the payload will have a docking port and thrusters, so you don't need them on your SSTO. I will just take some screenshots and post the exact payload in first thread.
(edit: see first post, you may choose if payload or SSTO has RCS)
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I challenge you to:
Build the smallest SSTO to bring a full 36 ton orange tank to Kerbin Orbit.
We will have three levels:
- Normal: bring up the full orange tank from the runway to orbit, and return your empty SSTO to runway.
- Pro: do normal level AND then launch your SSTO with empty cargo from runway to orbit, pick up the full orange tank in orbit, and return your SSTO with full orange tank as cargo to runway.
You may recover your vessel and launch again from Spaceplane hangar, before doing the second launch. WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING TO YOUR SSTO, except for removing the orange tank payload.
- Master: do complete Pro level without refueling or recovering your vessel at any time. A touch and go with at least two wheels on KSC runway before second ascend will qualify.
For each level we will have two rankings:
- lowest Number of parts
- lowest starting weight
All values including complete cargo and all cargo attached parts!!!!
This is your cargo:
- Rockomax Jumbo-64 Fuel Tank (full!)
- Clamp-O-Tron Docking Port Sr.
Rules:
- no mods (informational mods are ok)
- horizotal launching SSTO spaceplanes only
- single stage, return with same parts as on launch (except orange tank payload)
- the payload has to be connected to a docking port Sr.
- no fuel transfer from the orange tank, disabled crossfeed on the docking port
- You may add extra parts to payload like aerodynamical or RCS parts, as long as those parts are fixed to the payload and stay fixed to it all the time.
- Do not add engines to the payload.
- Do not use RCS on payload to achive or change orbit. They are only for docking/undocking!
- You SSTO has to reach a stable orbit of at least 70X70km before releasing or fetching payload.
- takes series of screenshots from every part of flight or do a video. Resources Window always open!
Additional Pro level rules:
- you must have at least two or more RCS Thrusters of any kind and at least one or more monopropellant resources of any kind. (because this challenge ist about SSTOs, not docking skills
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Rankings:
Normal
- Lowest part count:
1. Orange Tank SSTO by Nefrums 32 parts [best open drone]
2. SSTO by Nich 40 parts [best closed drone]
3. Z2 Winglift by Kergarin 44 parts [close d drone]
4. KSS Mk3 by Hodari 94 parts [best closed manned]
- Lowest weight:
1. Orange Tank SSTO by Nefrums 69.4 t [lightest open drone]
2. SSTO by Nich 99.1 t [lightest closed drone]
3. Z2 Winglift by Kergarin 102.3 t [closed drone]
4. KSS Mk3 by Hodari 178.0 t [lightest closed manned]
Pro
???
Master
- Lowest part count:
1. Z2D Winglift by Kergarin 44 parts [best closed drone]
2. Orange Tank Return Mk2 by Nefrums 55 parts [closed drone]
3. Orange Tank Return Mk4 by Nefrums 59 parts [closed drone]
4. SSTO2 'Hydra' Mk3 by Teutooni 65 parts [closed drone]
5. Orange Tank Return by Nefrums 66 parts [closed drone]
6. Z-3 Commuter Mk.2 by Val 77 parts [closed drone]
7. Z-3 Commuter Mk.1 by Val 82 parts [closed drone]
- Lowest weight:
1. Orange Tank Return Mk4 by Nefrums
96.7t [lightest closed drone]2. Z-3 Commuter Mk.2 by Val 115.6t [closed drone]
3. Orange Tank Return Mk2 by Nefrums 126.9t [closed drone]
4. Z2D Winglift by Kergarin 137.5t [closed drone]
5. Z-3 Commuter Mk.1 by Val 143.9t [closed drone]
6. Orange Tank Return by Nefrums 149.5t [closed drone]
7. SSTO2 'Hydra' Mk3 by Teutooni
158.2t [closed drone]good luck
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Really great challenge!
I wish I would have more time... But just two comments:
I did an ultimate challenge of the same kind, but with just 5 celestial bodies:
- i used the same pod for every landing and for return
- i had multiple launches, refueled and reassembled the lander many times (since I'm playing stock without any changes and have nothing that calculates deltaV for me)
- the contract system accepted this as success.
Someone already did this in an old ksp version in a single launch, but with separate landers. (which is impressive but will count as failure)
But if you need inspiration, look out for "ksp: let's go to all the planets" on YouTube.
Good luck to everyone!
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From the devnote Tuesday:
" The contracts system is definitely Brian’s (Arsonide) area of expertise, and it’s an area of the game that is under constant development. For update 1.1 the single objective World’s First contracts will be merged into the Explore contract line. Note that this does not include the automatic milestones, just the contracts. There was some overlap between these two contract types, and the Explore contracts would pick a celestial body at random. This led to many situations in which the Explore contracts would get ‘skipped’: the player would for example land on Mun before they had accepted the Explore contract for Mun, which would then never show up."
Sounds like a good step. Looking forward for 1.1!
Thank you devteam!
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Yes, now I understand and agree with you.
Eastereggs without description are a good idea, maybe it should just be shown on which planet they are, but not what and where exactly they are.
The usual ones like land here, orbit there, etc should always be fully described. -
That's why I think the milestones should point you a "direction".
The milestones should be shown in a list with an logical order, which players can take as direction.
But this should just be a listing, you should still be able to achive anyone of them at any time in any order.
So you will not have a conflict between people who need direction and those who don't.
One if the main reasons, why I started this, is that you can easily "break" the order of the world firsts, which means you will NEVER see some of them.
Going to the mun to early or (accidentally) leaving kerbins soi, kills contracts like "land on mun" for ever. What is really sad. -
Nice to hear, that you agree!
Yes, the explore contracts still exist.
That means we have got 3 very similar and overlapping things.
-I still think we should only keep the milestones. discarding world firsts and explore contracts
-I think milestones should be more in the style of the world firsts, but separated from contracts, in their own list
-maybe they could be "grouped" like the "explore" contracts?
-listed in an order that makes sense to play
I think consolidating this things and build a clear line to follow (only if you want) , is very important, to make the game more accessible for new players.
And it will make the game less frustrating for experienced players, who want to go for all achievements.
They won't miss one of them and will have a better overview. -
Hello,
I've played the game for a long time, and I really love it. Thanks for that!
I have installed 1.0.5 and started a new career.
The new milestones are nice, but:
-the litte 2 lines in the milestones message, doesn't give you the feeling, that you have achieved a milestone.
-deleting the message deletes all milestones
-if you don't delete it, it's hard to have an overview in this litte Window
-you can't see, what milestones exist
-Milestones don't just overlap with "world firsts records" contracts. to me they are the same.
-world firsts records give you the feeling, that milestones should give you.
-but it's hard to get all world first records. If you do to much at once, you break the order and will never see some of them. And it's very frustrating, if you don't get historical contracts like land on mun.
-getting rewards for world firsts and milestones at the same time, makes the game way to easy. You just get to much rewards.
So I have a suggestion, which would make the contract system more clear, less frustrating for beginners, and more flexible for pros:
A clear separation of milestones and contracts. And the uniting of milestones and world's first.
On one side you will have the Milestones:
they are the big steps in your space Programm, like launching first vessel, landing on mun etc.
And so they should be displayed and listed like big steps.
They are the progress of your space program.
On the other side you will have contracts:
Doing things for other organizations, to get some extra money / fun / challenges.
The contract system should stay like it is, but without the world fists contracts. It should really just be contracts, and nothing that overlaps with milestones.
In detail I would do it like this:
-In mission control, there are two main tabs: milestones and contracts.
-contracts stays like it's now ( available, active, archives)
-milestones has just an "open" and "achives" tab
-in the "open" tab (name may be changed) you see all existing milestones, that you haven't achieved jet.
-the "open" milestones should be listed in an order that makes sense (launch first vessel, achieve heigt of x, escape atmosphere, ..... Land on mun , and so on)
-this order does give the beginner something like a red line to follow (most of my friends, lose the interest for the game, because they don't clearly see, what would make sense to do next)
-but this order does just exist in the list, you can achive any milestone at any time in any order, just like it is now. So experienced players can do wat ever they want.
-milestones should be displayed more like the world firsts, just to make them feel more like milestones
-all world firsts contracts should be transferred to milestones and should be deleted under the contracts.
I know the "open" list will be long, but a using a good order, will make it easy to use. (or maybe with filters, like in the science archives)
So what you will get is:
-a clear red line for beginners, what they could do next
-an untouched flexibility of what you really do next
-a clear overview of what you have achieved and what you can achive
-a clear and realistic separation of:
A: your space program progress (milestones, financed by the government)
B: contracts (doing things for other companies, to boost your space program)
-Less frustration, because nobody will ever miss a world firsts contract (because they are all milestones now)
It's just my idea, but I think it would make the game more accessible and playable.
Kindly
Kergarin -
Is there a list of all possible 1.0.5 contracts?
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Yes I left kerbin soi, but it was world firsts contract too: orbit the sun.
Those new passive milestones and the world firsts missions seem to overlap a little.
And I see these problems:
-the player gets to much money, if he completes world firsts and gets the milestone rewards too ( making the game way to easy)
-It's really sad to not get those historical contracts like land on the mun, and the litte two lines in the milestones Window does not give you this "yeah, I made it!!" feeling. (especially for players new to the game)
-you can't see what milestones are coming up and what you have achieved
-most of my friend are sitting in front of the game and ask "what should I do next?" "that's up to you!" "hm... =/ "
-Still the game should be dynamical playable, so experienced players don't get bored.
I think this would be a good solution:
- the passive milestones should always be visible (the upcoming and the achieved ones).
Maybe they should be listed in a historical/fictional order, in the way of the progress of the real world's space program was and might be.
- they still can be achieved in every order you want, just the listing gives you a litte "red line" to follow - if you want.
- In addition the dynamical generated contracts should stay like they are, but without the world firsts contracts, since they just overlap with milestones, and missing one of them makes many people sad.
So you will end up with these:
- Milestones to achieve in the predefined order, or in your own. Rewarding you for the big things in you space Programm progress.
- a contract system, to get some extra money/fun/challenges, to boost your space Programm
-a clear separation of these two different types without overlap (space program progress / fulfilling contracts)
Just my ideas ;) -
Hello,
I was playing ksp for a long time.
After 1.0.5 came out, I have started a new career.
I usually take the kerbin world firsts record missions as a main storyline.
Everything started normally with these contracts:
Launch first vessel
Orbit kerbin
Flyby minmus and mun
Orbit minmus and mun
And then came none of them.
So I took some random contracts in the kerbin system.
Waiting for the next contract, like land on the mun, like it usually came up.
After a few days came "land on eve"
I'm sure there should have been more missions before.
What did I do wrong?
Smallest SSTO with orange tank payload [STOCK 1.0.5]
in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Posted
Updated rankings
@Nefrums: congratulations for being the first master and still lowest part count!
love that nighttime touch an go pictures! 
@Val: congratulations for building the lightest one!
didn't found the time to watch the entire video, but did you do that all in one turn without quickloading? 
Was working on the badge yesterday. Learned that I'm very bad at badges
. Going to try again tomorrow...