tetryds

@TUKE: Even if you are not using any BDArmory parts? That's weird, you can still send me your craft and I put weapons on it for you. You can place something where the weapons should be. Or just build the airplane then install BDArmory and place them yourself, as you wish. Sorry if it sounded like you don't know how to do it, I didn't mean that, but it's normal to forget some details, I install mods wrong all the time lol. I don't see why couldn't we have two ww2 weapon patches, mine will be dedicated to this challenge and more gameplay oriented than realistic values for the weapons. About the parts, I forgot to mention that we will have both stock and modded most beautiful craft, and that the small 1.5m and Oscar-B rocket fuel tanks are allowed if you remove oxidizer from them. Other oxidizer/monoprop-capable parts other than the cockpits are rocket grade parts.

So, I really liked making these WW2 weapons, I will check with VintageXP who made the kerbal model, banner and badge and maybe we could make a full WW2 weapons pack with custom models, I just need to talk to him. @TUKE: I can stick the guns on it for you, but it seems that you are installing BDArmory wrog, check which folder exactly must go on your GameData, sometimes it's burried.

Okay, great! You can pick the badge from my sig, I will link it on the OP though.

@Phearlock: making b9 pwings thinner also make them lighter? Hmm, interesting, I thought it was just ahestetics as FAR does't care about wing thickness for now. But bear in mind that weight is directly proportional to resistance, paper wings will pop off with a single 7mm shot. @TUKE: you should really have one KSP install just for this challenge with no more than the mods allowed here, download some airplane posted here and check out if it flies. It's hard to know if it's a bug or just the design but since that issue is not known (I do FAR QA) it may be you. If some other plane doesnt fly either I will need a lot of data to nail down the issue and report it so that ferram4 can fix it. @Azimech: true about losing wing parts, but I rather die with honor than fly injuried just to be finalized

A stock craft can be just as good as a modded craft, mods only give them a bit more flexibility, which is very important for fine tunning. But they are compatible and better balanced than what I would expect myself. I mean, no one survives a row of 20mm... no one.

@colmo: Phearlock nailed it. About performance, FAR is actually lighter than stock for bigger vehicles! It has consistent performance so the processing it requires barely varies with craft size. But it's important to note that it's easy to make stuff fly on FAR, the challenge is making something fly well and then give it to the AI. Comparing this challenge to the stock one I would say that this one is way more complex, there are many factors involved and you must put much more effort into it.

Lol I was spawning a cockpit right beside the airplane for the pilot. Better add that mod to the list. Edit: @TUKE: Since you helped with this challenge it's not less than fair that I help you. If you want you can send me your most promising design and I will fix it up. But I will try to only make it stable, it will be up to you to set the control deflections (I know I will work more on it but I will try not to )

@Jakokidda123: Yeah, you need to rebalance those weapons, check out the updated OP to know how many you can use. @Kunighit: Oh, great, I missed them then, will sweep the thread after airplanes and test them out this week, I will also see if I can use Kerbal Konstructs to make a custom battlefield. But that is minor, I only need to finish up what's left and release the challenge! My tests with missiles failed, when I modify them to have none or very little turn rates and make them smaller the AI refuses to use them. And after some time they overheat and explode for no reason. Same for rocket pods, the AI does not use them. BUT I think I have a solution, I think that I can make a gun work like a rocket launcher, I just need the right parameters. The problem that it does not use more than one weapon would not be an issue because the rocket is fired only once.

Weapons added and weapons pack updated! Time to gear our babies to the teeth. I had to remove the 7mm turret, I will talk to Baha to see if he can do anything about it. Nobody going for biplanes? I guess I am going to win alone and pull it to the piston monoplanes category, which will be shameful, lol. I mean, it got smashed like a bug when I tried to put it against my test plane. By the way, biplanes are so slow I think it would be even possible to fight with it on multiplayer using that BDA DMP patch, if anyone is interested please tell me, I have a server.

Hey, I think you should be using aerosports there, they look like turboprops. Airplane looks good, I am yet setting up the weapons punctuation system but I need to sort something out first... Btw, that link is not just the image, you want to use this one: http://i.gyazo.com/4a8c9d0fec23152b6cc348da34a5f5b9.jpg

Thanks for pointing that out! The pack was fixed now I played a lot with these guns and they are very well balanced IMO. If anyone has any balancing suggestions please tell me. I don't have enough airplanes for test runs so I just made them with my own.

@BahamutoD: Hey, can you explain a bit better how the smart guard system works? I am making a WW2 weapons pack for my challenge, and wanted to set it so that the AI uses more than one kind of weapon depending on the distance you are from the target.

Weapons pack updated!!!! All Biplane and Piston Monoplane guns were added. https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6786txy69zaj1w/BADTWeaponsPack.zip?dl=1 (the link is the same) Have fun! Now I am making a score system, bear in mind that the AI can only use one type of weapon at a time, if you want it to switch weapons you need to limit the ammo available for the other one. I will request BahamutoD to take a look on this so that you can set different ranges for different weapons, it already does this between turrets and missiles, I just need to figure out how to do this for these weapons too.

Eh, didn't think about that. Thinking better, it should not be, but I guess that as long as you don't abuse it it's fine Btw, remember that the AI does not know what FAR is and will not retract flaps. And on FAR the flaps start deployed on takeoff mode. The D-25 is more suitable for energy fighting, the aerosports have a high low speed thrust but you can barely retain energy on a dive. Now the D-25 allows you for turning tight without losing much, so I guess I will go for it. The turboprop is for some ultimate diving, on my tests it could retain more than 850km/h when going on a straight line after a shallow dive. But it takes a while to gain speed, if you are not careful you can die even before you climb considerably.

Going well, I am almost done with the 7mm weapons. What holds me back is that every gun is set up differently and have differently things missing, etc. but I hope to have a new version of the pack tomorrow. And yes, all of them will have increased damage, it's much needed.

I recommend you to make a new KSP install with only the mods required for this challenge, this way you don't get lost with a lot of parts nor other stuff. How much RAM do you have? And how many mods? If you continue having issues with FAR I will need you to pm me with all the info you can get.

No, FAR uses their parameters just like it does with stock wings. And yes FAR accepts a big wing made out of small pieces. The main difference is that Pwings are a lot more convenient, easier to tweak, look better and can have many more different shapes without clipping them too much. Your stock airplanes probably don't fly on FAR because you used the wrong principles to build them. "The great rule of thumb" here is placing the main wings so that their lift is aligned with the center of mass, then add the tailplane and ensure stability. After that just fly it and tweak stuff until it's right.

Ok let me just fix this small misconception. What FAR actually does is use a fixed ammount of voxels to map the craft. This way you can have very good precision on small vessels, like reentering pods, and still have a good precision on big vehicles where small bumps would not do much. Because of that, you get consistent performance when using FAR, does not matter the size of your craft, with resolution scaling properly.

@TUKE: Yes, that is exactly why I said they are the models only, I had to change the M1919 but I did not change the stats yet. Same for the sounds and all of the other stuff, don't worry about it. All I have right now are the guns that will be in the challenge, visual modifications and changed them to use more standardized ammo. But they won't be able to continue having the same specs as real life, because they are too weak right now. The 50cal M3 is still missing, as well as the rocket pod, but since no one is applying for jets yet, that can wait. @Azimech: I suggested that Bahamuto made some energy setting, to prevent the airplanes from stalling and kind of force them to zoom and boom, it's on the to-do list I can fix the weapons firing from weird ranges, there is a setting on them that allows this, so I will do that. @xrayfishx: AJE is only used for jets, but procedural parts is on the modpack, thus tweakscale is unneeded. It's very important to use procedural parts, otherwise your airplanes will tend to be superheavy. @TUKE (again): FAR is not as complicated as it seems, but the main problem everybody faces is weight. I heavily recommend building your airplane without any fuel tanks at all, andonly fuselage, empty fuel tanks are also heavier. Then you make use of the made-for-this clipping rule and add fuel tanks inside of the fuselage as you need. With the fuselage done, add your main wings right on the center of mass, so that their lift counters the weight of the craft, or slightly forward of it. Then you add the tailplane, that will "enforce" stability. Make sure to set all of your wing strength to mass ratios to less than 0.4, I would start by 0.3, remembering that control surfaces also have them. These planes need to be pointing up to take off, so an inverted tricycle design is often what you go for. And make sure to read at least the first guide on my signature so that you can balance your elevators properly. @Everyone: Does anybody have a "flying" biplane? I need to test their weapons. I am thinking about buffing their engines even further, but I need to make some tests with the AI first. It does not matter much that they would be able to reach insane speeds of 500km/h because they would keep turning and wouldn't get so fast anyway But first I need another biplane to compare and try out. Here is mine:

Here is the weapons pack! https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6786txy69zaj1w/BADTWeaponsPack.zip?dl=1 License: CC-BY-SA Remember that this pack is a WIP and may have bugs. Also that the weapons status are not balanced at all, use this pack only to stick guns to your plane and tweak it *The weight of some weapons may also change slightly.

I will post a WIP version in a few minutes But bear in mind that it's only for the models, the guns are completely unbalanced and can be missing sounds or stuff like that. But once you use this gun you will only have to update the modpack, the guns will not change (if anything, some will be added).

Not all weapons on this list will be on the final pack, I had to change some. Because I am not keeping one extra ammo type just for a single .303 gun I also renamed everything, etc, etc.

The guns will be hard to balance but I will be done tomorrow. Does anyone have a full stock plane for me to test? Procedural parts seem to behave a bit differently. Oh, and we got a nice new badge!

Ok, giving the weapons a try right now! Edit: omg there are so many I am kind of lost. First I will make a catalog of what we need and post it here. Then, I will check which guns fit each item on the catalog and make sure we have only one of each type, max two. After that, I will rename them so their name begin with WW2, making them easier to find on the editor. When I am done with that, I will balance the weapons for gameplay purposes, I will only mess with a few things. And finally, give some of them a new paintjob Then I will only have to add the rocket pods, as I saw that there are two turrets already, but that is for later. The weapons pack will be distributed as a cooperation between 77industries, TUKE Attack Systems and tetryds' Hangar, if you don't mind. Edit: Weapons list (H =Howitzer/ V = Hidden Vulcan): Biplanes: 1x 7.62mm Machine gun (H) 1x 7.62mm Machine gun (V) Piston Monoplanes (all above inc.): 2x 20mm Cannon (H) 1x .50 cal Machine gun (H) 1x .50 cal Machine gun (V) 1x 7.62m Gunnman MG (M230) Jets (all above inc.): 1x .50 M3 Machine gun (V) 1x Rocket pods (S-8 KOM) ...now let's seew what we've got here. Edit2 the weapons that stay are: 20mm: Mauser MG 151/20 HS .404 13mm/.50 MG131 Browning M2 7.62mm M1919 ShKAS ShKAS Defence Gun Guys, these packs are set up completely differently from each other, I will reorganize everything and add the missing .50 M3. I also had a hard time finding the calibers of the guns, I will add that to their names.

@Artfact: Weight is the major issue when building propeller airplanes. We don't notice, but often you can end up building a 10 ton monoplane with a single propeller and hope that it is going to go anywhere. Another thing is that you don't need a lot of fuel on propeller planes, after you slim it down, especially the wings, fuel will be a major factor. For the wings, don't go for anything higher than 0.6 mass ratio on them, I would recommend even less, but that is only if you slim it properly. Since you like propellers that much you may be interested on this: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/130035