mcirish3

Alo as far as the flame war goes: You have group one who correctly sees the pre-release a a bonus for themselves and the community and are confused as to why group three can't see this as a positive for all of us. As for Group three they correctly state "BUT hey we can't have three grapes even though at first we were offered three grapes"( again the way the OP presented this made it even worse) "we lost a grape that really sucks even if I did not want the extra grape it still really sucks" (loss aversion). They are mad at group one for not recognizing the fact they they lost a grape.

Hi Squad and all users. This flame war has a real basis is human behavior and I think everyone especially Squad could learn something from this, most importantly how not to have this happen again. First watch This Ted talk. Then listen to the first 15min of this NPR podcast. Now, keep what you just learned in mind as I present my analysis! ( it won't be that great of an analysis but well I am a numbers guys so....) First off I want to say, as way of introduction, I am a bit of an expert on the topic of what I think is happening here.(I hope i can make it understandable, no promises I unfortunately prefer to communicate through numbers) I am a pricing and financial analyst for a large electronics distributor (think billions in sales). We recently had this exact scenario play out in the sales of one of our largest suppliers. We have not finished solving this problem but we have Identified what happened. It was Monkeys. I think Squad has a bad case of the monkeys too. (this is extra funny when you think about what Squad's logo is.) What squad has accessed in its user bases in this open beta test is the natural human aversion to loss. What squad has is three groups. Group one is all users who have a steam copy Group two is people who do not currently have a steam copy but have the option to upgrade. Group three is people who do not currently have a steam copy and can not upgrade with out purchasing a second copy. For group one, the open beta is like the guy offering the moneys 2 grapes but when they hand over the coin they get 3, even if they only want to eat two, they will take all three and be happy. ROC ON TOTAL BONUS!!! For group two they are kinda like the canary of monkeys, they sympathize with they guys who can't have the bonus but they personally can take the bonus or leave it but they will have to pay a small cost(not monetary) to switch to steam. These guys are shouting, "I don't really like have to pay the extra cost (not monetary) but it is not so bad, but any extra cost above this would be bad." Now we come to the last group the guys who can not access the pre-release at all. For these guys, especially the way the OP was written, they see not accessing the pre-release as a loss, they were offered 3 grapes but when they went to pay (got to the last paragraph of the OP) they were only given two grapes. These guys would rather no one got an extra grape if they can't have an extra grape. why? because they're human and VERY loss adverse. Even though as a group we are better off if more of us get 3 grapes, those who only get two are still going to feel cheated. Triggering the loss function in your customer base is a VERY VERY bad idea. Don't do it, it always always leads to a loss in profitability. I can not tell Squad how to fix it I can only point to what caused it. FYI I am a canary Monkey, and won't be doing the pre-release thing.

Did not know that thank You. I usually have 3 or four installs since I like to mod them up in various ways. This was my other concern in that I could only have on install which would be a major hassle.

No, wrong headed. This prerelease is an unpolished version, will still contain bugs, and is primarily aimed at mod makers so that they can update their mods without us users breathing down their neck. Oh and the fact that they will be releasing small version build increments during this period as more bugs get fixed, means that you will infact be download the game constantly.

ACK don't complain you knuckle heads, they are doing us a favor.!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya you will have to wait a couple weeks longer~ 1st of April? So what most of your favorite mods will be up to date, and you won't have to deal with the bugs. I could transfer to steam, to take advantage of this but I don't like being locked down by steam, I can't place KSP on a memory stick and take it where I want, if I do that. Really tempted to buy a second copy but I was rather thinking of getting the EDU version rather than a steam copy. Very sad that I can't take advantage of this since it is really cool of them to do this, but the transfer is permanent so...totally not going to destroy a permanent advantage for a temporary pleasure.

I think you miss the point in that many, many, many people (not currently in this thread) innocently stumble into Curse instead of CurseForge. Making matters worse, if you follow the links from the curse main page to the KSP page it takes you to an ad filled mess with popups that cover content and are a nightmare to deal with, instead of taking you to the Curseforge page. These same people then come and complain to Mod makers who then avoid Curse so they don't have to deal with the complaints. My point is the issues with Curse are real and are causing real problems for mod makers and users alike, and Squad and Curse have not been upfront about the issues and how and when they will address them.

I actually get this, you are absolutely right. But then again I also am a financial analyst. I don't like Curse, which puts me on the other side of the fence from you, but as long is there is going to be an official mod site it will have to be with a stable company. I don't think Github can provide what KSP needs, I can't recommend another site that is better. I do not think the spacedock and those building it can at this time offer such a service. In fact I don't even think they want to try at this time, based on some of the comments made by those building the site right here in this thread. Which of course makes any discussion of them being the official mod site for KSP kinda silly, since the site creators at least at this time do not wish to be the official mod site for KSP. If any of you read the discussion I had with Sal_vager up thread I think a third "CKan like" solution would be better with no official mod site. I am not a programer so I am not sure if I could accurately explain, besides it is @Nothalogh's Idea not mine. The proposal that the number 1 community site be given a link along side the Curse link seemed reasonable to me and may really be all that is necessary, but as Sal_vager pointed out it could be a very slippery slope that leads to chaos. If this line of action was to be taken it would have to be done so in a very careful and deliberate manner. So at the end of the day I don't truly know what the best solution should be, I just know that doing the status Quo becuase it is the status quo is the worse reason to do anything. Consider this a reality check on "is the status quo the best option today!" I think the fundamental problem here is that there are a significant number of people who do not like Curse and never have, I am one of them. There are some real and tangible problems with Curse, many of them have been laid out here in this thread. But changing the official mod repository to some other site or idea comes with its own problems that may be just as challenging or more challenging as those presented by Curse. I think the real thing that has kept things boiling under the surface is the refusal by Squad to acknowledge that Curse has issues at all, and perhaps to present a plan of action on how Curse and Squad as partners plan on working to mitigate these issues and what kind of time frame we can expect them to be taken care of or if they are systemic and can't be fixed. If the community members feels like they're being ignored or bamboozled, even if they are not, it can lead to a lot of frustration and annoyance. All of this annoyance came rushing out with the closure of Kerbalstuff, and given the topic of this thread ended up being vented here. In any case I think the discussion has gone around and around a couple times at this point so do we really need to keep going at it. I think we could just close this one up and move along, squad will take what we have all said and use it or not, it is at the end of the day up to them. Please don't forget really we all just want Squad to do what is best for KSP, to make it as appealing to as many users as possible, and all the passion is around various visions of how that could be done. So really are we not truly all on the same team after all?

With this in mind: Help Keep the Space Dock team Motivated Here:https://www.patreon.com/user?u=2903335&ty=p I in no way benefited financially from contributions to the space dock team, my only benefit comes from Spacedock being a success.

I could be wrong but I don't think this mod is configured to support FAR.

As you wish Nancy.

Well, no I did not exactly know this. Curse reps?, as in curse employees or Squad employees who work with Curse? I am not being an jerk or intentionally dense...just... I am not sure what you are suggesting.

Wait what? Are you saying wait for a piece of software, that you don't know what it does? Isn't Squad the customer? Why would you want client software if you don't know if it will meet your user's needs? If squad is paying for software that Curse is making for them why would you want it if Curse hasn't told you how it will work? You are a little off base here:

What he said!

Can it pull from more sites that curse? If yes, then Yes, otherwise NO. Edit: isn't the curse client 12 months behind schedule? Is there an ETA on finishing it?

This statement: and this Statement: Contain a logical contradiction. Further demonstrating advantages of Squads corporate support for a something along the lines of CKan but maybe not exactly CKan. Rather than throwing money at curse.

Which is part of the problem with both, and is what makes this idea from @Nothalogh seem such a good one.

@sal_vager I think most legitimate complaints revolve around the layout of Curseforge, and that fact that if you head to non-Curseforge part of the site i.e. Curse, you will get get a very different view. A view littered with ads and junk. I think what most are looking for is an acknowledgment at least that Curse is ugly and not as user freandly as Spacedocks, and that the possibility that you could stumble into the less savory parts of Curse make it less desirable to visit. Take this as an example and case in point.

Since Every one keeps talking about SpaceDocks as if it were not operational. It currently has 179 mods and 875 users. http://www.spacedock.info/

I am going to go ahead and say the reason this still comes up is that Curse is hard to navigate and people accidentally stumble into parts of the site not covered under Squads contract. It may be possible for a mod maker to post their mod incorrectly as well and have it end up in the non-covered part of the curse site (not speaking from experience). Also the site has a history that leaves an unpleasant taste in user's mouth it is true even if it is not the case for KSP mods. As far as I am concerned the reason I don't like it is mostly usability and aesthetics, in other words I find it ugly and hard to navigate. Not going to argue reliability it is reliable as I have said before, it is just that a significant portion of the community doesn't think that is sufficient.

Valid, point. I think @Nothalogh has a great Idea (I do know it does not actually host any thing, I said it wrong). But doing so in a way that does not cause issues as you lay out here is a challenge as well. The real problem is KerbalStuff was a one Pony show, that Squad could never use, due to serious risk factors. SpaceDock may one day be good enough, hard to say this early in the game, but as it is right now Squad can not use it. As for Curse, a small part of the user and mod makers like it, another, larger part, are ambivalent towards Curse versus others sites, and a very large Number ~50% dislike Curse. SquadKAN is only an idea that may never go anywhere. SO that leaves us with a problem with lots of people clamoring for one solution or another. Only Squad can solve this but I rather think they are immobilized, so they will probably just stick with Curse for better or worse.

Your right, but I am not sure he meant it that way, since it would mean ignoring the obvious. I think he meant, and @Nothalogh correct me if I am wrong, Squad would do well to stop spending money on Curse and use those resources to proved a in game CKan type hosting platform that would enable users to download mods directly from a master database maintained by squad, without the whole web hosting thing. Edit: NM I was wrong.

I almost never used Curse, even after @Red Iron Crown gave me a convincing explanation as to why he had issues with the service. He, as it turns out, was right on all accounts. None the less KerbalStuff was better in every way than Curse except reliability. I tried both and flat out liked KerbalStuff better and since I never experienced any problems with it until right before the end, if RIC had not said any thing to me I would be totally bumming right now. We would all have been better off if we liked curse more but we don't...I don't. Curse is a ugly dull site and is not very user friendly or well designed, it just can not compete with KerbalStuff's clean, sleek, user accessible design. It is too bad there were so many problems lurking in the background of KerbalStuff. I hope the new service can be brought back soon becuase Curse totally sucks in most ways except it is totally reliable.

I 100% agree, I was just saying that this statement: On 2/17/2016 at 11:49 AM, KasperVld said: Meanwhile people are free to upload and share mods from any source they wish Is not exactly accurate.

*Cough not Cough Mediafire cough*

WOW, this will be mandatory DL for me. Congratz, and way to show how strategies should have been done.