Merinsan

He is currently on board the new Kerbin Science Station, at 110km LKO. He supervised construction. This was after his missions to Mun, Minmus, Duna and Eve. He wanted a break. Once the Jool mission is organized, it will dock with the station to pick him up and head to Jool.

I'm certain there is enough science in the Kerbin, Duna and Eve systems to max out the tech tree. I've only been to these 3 places and I only have 2 nodes left, which will require 850 science I think. I didn't do any gravity readings in the Duna system, and have a lot to do in the Kerbin system (around Minmus and Mun) Those alone would get me over the top. And I didn't get all the science for other experiments from Eve/Duna (I was worried focused on returning samples). At this point I have all the tech I ever used in sandbox, so I can go anywhere in the system. Anyway, this is a little off topic. There is plenty of information around about where to find science.

I love this idea.

I've been to these places also, and I only have 3 things in the tree missing: ion drives and 2 final tier items. I know I've left a lot of science hanging around too, I'm sure there is enough left to max out the tree. I've taken about 6 launches for this, but I don't claim to be a pro either. I imagine you could do it by landing on the Mun and Minmus in the first flight, after setting up polar or near polar orbits (for all the eva reports). Get all the science stuff you can then head to Duna or Eve next.

My science vessel has 20 canisters of it, and 16 science labs, so definitely! But, it's just another part. I don't like blowing up my parts though!

Science module Goo container 1 New antenna Changes to large antenna Nose cone changed to science part Changes to landing legs Besides that, the whole point of the update was to give us SCIENCE! and the tech tree. We have this now and it's cool.

I voted that it's awesome, but I was torn. I also hate it.... I hate it because I am now so tired, I am unable to focus on work. I hate it because I am hanging around the forums reading about it when I should be working. Can't wait to hate 0.23!

That is not entirely true and is besides the point. If it were true, they'd not bother with pictures anymore. The first pictures taught us a lot, and every now and then a new picture brings new information, which is normally very marginal - diminishing returns! How do you know that is all the Kerbals are doing? Maybe they have a laser spectrometer with them. The point is, the more sophisticated the lab, the more science you can do. A camera is better than someone telling you what the rock looks like - scientists can analyze the photo and see strata layers etc. A laser spectrometer is better still. Cutting the rock open is even better.

I completely agree that there should be some benefit of returning a sample, rather than transmitting it. Realistically, you can't pack all the science equipment into a space ship (unless it's the enterprise!), you need specialized equipment in a lab. Some of the equipment may well be larger than your ship! I agree with the OP on the breakdown on points. Sample return is worth 100%, while transmission is worth say 60% of that, and you'll never get more than that. I don't agree that repeating should not give points however. If I pick up 2 rocks from the same spot, they are never the same. They may look similar, but they are always different. I do hope Squad changes this in the future, so you are required to return samples at some point for the maximum science. Overall though I'm still liking science!

As it stands, you can get 100% of the science points for physical experiments just by transmitting data, you just need to do it a lot more than returning samples. I agree returning samples needs to be encouraged, and I agree sensors should not be less than 100% - it simply seems artificial at the moment.

They certainly report the same value when you collect them on site. But you don't get the science then! I'm planning to do a test sometime where I send a ship to Jool (I'll be using infinite fuel to make it easy) with lots of gravity detectors. I'll take measurements and transmit, then I'll also try returning with lots of samples (of readings). I need to confirm transmitting reduces the total science or not, and I may as well test whether I get more with multiple return samples. EDIT: Tested it again. I sent a probe to Moho to do gravity readings. It had 16 gravity detectors. Transmitting data was identical to returning it. Here are my specific numbers: Initial Science value was 480. I don't know what this means, but it is not science points - this confused me before. The transmission only got %60 benefit. I continued until the science value went to 0.0. Listing the numbers in the form of Science value - Science points Transmission: 480 - 96.0 218.2 - 43.6 99.2 - 19.8 45.1 - 9 20.5 - 4.1 9.3 - 1.9 4.2 - 0.8 1.9 - 0.4 0.9 - 0.2 0.4 - 0.1 0.2 - 0.0 0.1 - 0.0 Total Science Points: 175.9 Sample Return (all had a science value of 480 when collected): 160.0 14.5 1.3 0.1 I collected all the samples at the same time, in fact I collected 16. Only 4 yielded science points. So if you have the power generation ability, you are better just sending data always. If you are interested, in orbit around Moho I had 4 gigantor solar arrays and an RTG (for the flight there). That kept up with the biggest antenna no problem. In my opinion this should be changed. There is no way sending data about dirt can give you the same data you could derive from having it in a good lab. Going to post a suggestion about this in the appropriate forum.

I've been to Duna and Eve, sciencing all over the place last night (about 3.5k science on both trips!). Some things I discovered. 1. Transmitting something to death does seem to give less than returning the samples (I recant my previous post!). I was testing gravity with the gravoli detector in interstellar space. From memory it was worth 440 science, yet I didn't get that after all the transmissions. From memory again the transmission was only 20%. 2. I think multiple samples don't give the same amount. My ship going to Duna and Eve was dubbed "Science Vessel Mk 1" (I'm bad at naming ships), which had 16 science labs and 20 goo containers. Every place I could take a reading I took multiple readings for return. I think the list displays the multiple items separately, and each one has a diminished amount. I think. I was pretty tired when I started noticing this.

It does sound worse! I too do not understand the stats. Although, I have tried 2 antennae already, and they get better (faster).

Soil samples can be transmitted. You get about 20% for them. I've already done one from Minmus and the Mun. In fact, I did 3 from the Mun in one shot. I'm not sure what that does for you - 3 soil samples worth say 50 points returned on one ship. I didn't check the breakdown, but I ended up with 600+ points from the 1 trip (6 goo containers, 3 labs, 3 soil samples, 3 eva reports, and eva report and "soil" sample from splashdown). On top of that I kept transmitting crew reports while doing the mission. Sadly, the amount of science I need is growing exponentially! At least I have my nukes now! Next mission is Duna!

I just tested this. I did continuous transmissions versus continuous recoveries, and it comes out the same, so you could transmit continuously for the same result, which in my opinion is an exploit.

Calling the 0.22 update "Career mode", is like calling a job at McDonalds a career. Sure, technically you could, but no one in their right mind considers flipping burgers a career. It is essentially sandbox mode, with a few restrictions for a couple of flights. Once Career Mode is finished, there should be things that only exist only in Career mode, for obvious reasons, such as missions and maybe a story line. It shouldn't be some artificial limitation like you can't use a piece of equipment because you are in sandbox mode - which would mean it by definition isn't sandbox. If there is a technical reason for not providing science in sandbox (ie save breaking), then I am all for the current implementation, but I'd expect it to eventually be fixed. If there is no technical reason then I think it is ridiculous to implement this way. It may even be a case of getting it into experimentals, while they fix the science messages in sandbox, so this entire discussion may even be pointless...

The media group really needs to do a better job at explaining that it's not out yet, because every update this same thing happens!

I actually think most existing players are going to be, to some extent, less interested in career mode. The reason for this is that everyone has been playing in what is essentially end game mode until now. Career mode will become more interesting when we get budget constraints and missions with objectives. However, I will be starting a new career mode save when it comes. It will probably last all of 2 hours while I get the science points to max out science, and then I'll be playing "sandbox" again. The thing I am really looking forward to is sticking a science module on space stations and claim I am doing "science"!

I honestly think this will take a little longer, since they are still messing with the tech tree, but it shan't be much longer!

My old save had bases on Laythe, Eve, Duna and stations around all those plus Moho and Dres. The way I built those tended to be a single launch for each part, time warp all the way there. The station around Laythe had about 8-10 launches, which means something like 8 years there already. The very first launch I did was a space station around Kerbin which went horribly wrong, and had an inclination of about 45 degrees, it was around 120 years old. My current save is only about 2 years, since I've only just started going to Jool - the first ship is still in transit, while I set up a Duna station.

-0 -about 50 -about 100 I'm not big on taking screenshots. A lot of them are actually accidental screenshots. I love sending Kerbals out to different places, putting them in bases. I'm not sure if I have more or less than 50 out there, but 50 sounds right since I put about 30 on the Mun.

I'm impressed enough that you got it into the air. Anything I build half that size tends to fall apart before the first stage.

Perhaps the crew can't think. Obviously the guys building the rockets can and perhaps mission control too. Maybe the crew are like puppets, simply receiving thoughts and actions from mission control?

Last night, I sent 7 ships from LKO to Duna in a single transfer window, to set up a new space station. 2 fuel modules (4 orange tanks), 4 crew modules (8 hitchhiker cans) and a huge rover (crew capacity of 36). Managing the transfer was hard. Lots of switching between ships to make sure I was flying the right one as the entered Duna SOI. Fortunately the closest conflict was 2hrs: 1 ship did it's aerobreaking followed by the next ship entering Duna SOI 2hrs later. Amazingly, everything went well, except for the rover. I messed up the transfer a little, and had to use a lot of fuel to get a capture, and it was a polar orbit. I had to tap into the landing fuel, so I am not sure I will be able to land it now. If I can get the chutes to open without ripping off it will work, I just need to drop it in a low area. I did all of this while waiting for a Jool transfer to complete, and it still has over 100 days to go! Next I'll be assembling all the parts of the station and trying to land that rover!

That's not dumb, that's just being like Jeb! I did the same thing once also, then I said to myself "I wonder if I can get a Kerbol escape with these" after about an hour of adding more boosters, I finally succeeded. I forgot the name of the Kerbal on that ship, but he seemed pretty happy about it!