Pappystein

So given all the "fun" this week regarding stages for the Saturn Rockets... I thought I would repost an old article of mine that is exhaustive in its detail on the stages as well as well cited... the Article I posted last week (at the top of this page) was not well cited and, in fact, is a precursor to the article I have here. Saturn C-2 and C-3, the Unflown and Unloved Rockets in the Saturn Family:

All very true... Something else... the C-2's Cluster stage needs to be about 10 feet shorter than the C-1/Saturn I's Cluster stage... I just drop it 3 click of fuel and oxidizer (so 85% max capacity) I find it close enough with a S-III stage (or S-II-260 stage)

Thanks for sharing! Wonderful pics and interesting ways to kitbash to make some of this work. Your early Saturns probably should have 4x E-1 engines on them. Looks like you used 8x H-2s which was not the engine of choice when those were conceptualized. E-1 was canceled a few months before the cancellation of C-2 and C-3 (and its cancellation is directly responsible for the development of the S-IVB and the S-IVC.) I have a relatively minor nitpick. So as, *I guess* the local expert on S-III, there were exactly 2 designs for S-III. 1st was a notational stage with no known engine properties... it would have 2 Hydrolox engines. Either the J-2 or the LR87-LH2 In the case of the LR-87-LH2 (whatever designation it would have received) it was a TWO bell engine... Just like on Titan... The Notational S-III stage was 220" diameter, or the original diameter of the 4 engine S-IV. The second and Final design, likely to be built by McDonnell Corp, was 260" in diameter and about 2/3rds of the height of the actually produced S-IVB. It would have 2 engines... So 2 Bells with J-2s or 4 bells with the LR-87. <<<---- This is where the idea that the S-III was a 4 engine stage comes from. Only 2x engines would be used. And before someone jumps on me about the LR87... Just because the Hydrolox test engine was a single bell does not meant the production engine was! Also Somewhere I have a photo of a single bell AZ50/NTO test engine too S-III stage was deleted long before Lunar Orbital Rendezvous was selected. So late 1960.

I am running a pretty lean system... I never paid attention to it, but I, too, have the deploy bug on *SOME* of the engines... EG the SR-119 stage for MX/Peacekeeper/Minotaur IV Running the Current Dev version

So, it has been a while... I was so depressed about my failure to finish the Minotaur document due to the lack of unclassified information. I kind of gave up on several articles I had "in the fire." Well, it has been over a year and that itch is back... Don't worry the Doctors assure me it is not contagious and is just fine Today I give you a brief article... Saturn, some of the stages that were not meant to be:

Happy most densely packed Holliday season of the year everyone (what 19 different Holidays all in 20 days?)! How to get your Earth Kerbin Sciences probe to the North Pole when you haven't unlocked parts to make a plane! Yes Inline Ballute for main stage recovery! #CleanUpYourTrash And YES the probe is in a second Aero-shell... won't survive without it and the heatshield The Probe (yes it is a different one, the first one did not survive due to burnup) Aerobreaking to land RIGHT at the North Pole... Looking for St Nick! Just before touchdown. OK I am here Where is bloody St Nick? I was promised Santa Claus! Merry Christmas!

You have to have the latest version of Blowfish's B9-Partswitch. Further other mods can cause conflicts which could result in those errors. Since you are new: Below in my signature is the "First steps to support Start HERE!" list of instructions. the OP of the thread is by Nathan Kell who is/was one of the main drivers of modded game-play throughout KSP's history. Basically KSP1 is pretty easy to troubleshoot if you just pay attention to what you are doing in your GameData folder. **SOMETIMES** you do need to wipe your GameData Folder and start over... In those cases (I am playing KSP1 and KSP2 via Steam) I just use Steam to "Validate files" to re-install the core KSP files I play with. Your GameData folder should contain ALL of the following in addition to the basic 2 squad folders: B9PartSwitch Bluedog_DB CommunityResourcePack DeployableEngines DMagicScienceAnimate SimpleAdjustableFairings SystemHeat Waterfall And the most recent ModuleManager.dll (I am currently running ModuleManager.4.2.3.dll)

Titan II is something that falls HARD on if you just convert from default KeroLOX to AZ50/NTO you will have problems getting it into orbit. The fuel load for AZ50/NTO needs to be about 70% full not max full. Kinda why I suggest the AZ50/NTO fuel setup included in BDB Extras (beyond the fact that in conjunction with JSO I made them) Because it defaults the Titan tanks to that 70% value. VisaV performance... I can get a Gemini Capsule on AZ50/NTO into 120km orbit on JNSQ (2.7x scale) without issue. I have never been a fan of mods like Smurf for the exact reason you are having... easier just to use a REscale program and bump stock KSP to 2.5-2.7x scale range. All the good mods are scaled off of stock engines anyway.

Just to be clear, You DID download the DEVELOPMENT version and not the RELEASE version yes? IF not and or if you do not know how the steps are in the spoiler. Fixes and changes to the source files are not updated to RELEASE until there is a new release... so when a bug pops up in the mod and a release is not immediately planed... well the "hot fixes" if you will go into the Development folder not the Release folder. The Development files will have things that are undergoing balance changes etc... but for lack of a better description I consider the Development folder the "get your latest updates" folder.. PS: I can only link Imgur images in alternative browsers (I normally use a locked up Firefox and it won't post RELIABLY images from Imgur... Go figure, my security settings are the problem (and I am not going to change them.)

I don't use a Mod, I just use F12 with Steam running.

Thanks for the Responses... I just did a test post and it embeds fine today... Using the same technique yesterday resulted in Links only... Expletives deleted... back to normal.

Screenshot Tax Vanguard TV-1 https://i.imgur.com/rxdabaK.jpg Been a while since I posted due to config issues with my effects... This is a simplistic setup (no TUFFx no nuthin) But also this means I have no Visual issues in KSP. SO Imgur doesn't embed at all anymore?

So I have not posted Sreenies in almost a year... mostly because I have been un-happy with my graphics situation, something I have bemoaned here multiple times. Just did a clean install of a "select" group of mods which of course includes BDB.... Utilized JNSQ... funny with JNSQ no graphic issues... Also I am doing a science career and once I get a few more nodes unlocked I may start posting Screenshot Tax. I had a FTO in an Atlas Mercury yesterday because SOMEONE forgot to enable the G-Force select on the booster skirt! At Skirt Sep the LR105 was providing 1.8G of acceleration... OOPS I did get 3/4ths the way arround the Planet and did not trigger my SDS however So far this career I have launched Vanguard TV1 and TV2 (both to orbit) Redstone Mercury 1, Redstone Mercury 2 (for more science) and Atlas Mercury 1.

There are a lot of bugs that can happen with KSP that are like this... Keep an eye out and see if it happens again... I think it is actually a Unity issue because I have similar issues in other games as well... Works fine... Blamo... Works fine again.

IIRC you can make a Saturn V-6 with 4 of those and launch on just the two cl F1s and 4 TK156s with more than a full moon payload. I think I got the moon Lander with parachutes and a heat shield for it to Mars. It did not quite survive landing.... I know that much... I had to fly a rescue mission to save Jeb! SRM designation is assuming Thiokol won the contract, Aerojet would have been AJ156 and CTD/UAC would have been CT-156. The Name SRM for the Space Shuttle comes from shorthand engineering documents to allow any of the prescribed engines to be subbed in.... And that stuck as the designation... So long as whatever Extras you want installed are in the Bluedog_DB_Extras folder, structure does not matter. But the root folder in your GameData folder needs to be Bluedog_DB_Extras.

Using only stock parts and a now LONG DEFUNCT Nuclear engine mod, I made a Tinker-toy Saturn Analog out of 2.5m parts and got to the edge of the stock KSP solar system... That was when I said "THATS IT" and installed GPP, and latter JNSQ. (it took me 30 lifts without boiloff to get my buggy built.) Now-A-Days I use KSRSS Reborn at 2.5x You know, I should pester E of Pi and company as to why no 156" SRMs... they were well under development when the timeline jumped from real to story... And with a slight scaledown and a change to the fore and aft structures became the 146" SRM for the Space Shuttle. Nah, Not worth it

I just use them together! I put the SPM at the front near the docking bay on the long extension that is part of it's parts kit. Above the stations zenith like you did. Then at their normal position, I put the ISS arrays as designed... Then for grins I build a SPP module for the Soviet/Russian segment and pop it atop the Zenith as well. All the Solar Power ! LR-101(Atlas) Noises!

So I have flown this in BDB, In various configurations of Saturn Cluster stage. My best performance was with the 10ft extension to the tanks and 4 H2s on the outer bays. The H-2s provide better thrust control and more thrust at the cost of a slightly higher fuel consumption... But the extra thrust allows you to overcome the drag at Low altitudes (2.7x KSRSS) You can achieve a 26ish degree orbit with this... but Boiloff in the S-IV stage is enough that you will want to add the Transtage in-between it and the S-IV stage... also you will want to use the RL-10B-3 engine variant that is in BDB extras (Pafftek). Even then it is Skoshish to get to orbit Mind you I have not flown this stack in over a year and a half, (since the RL10B-3 was completed and H-2 added to BDB)

WEELLLL... that depends on if you believe Von Braun or NASA was in-charge of Saturn... Von Braun: We go to C-5... We do not go past C-5, C-4 is not enough, C-6 is TOO MUCH. NASA: Lets take this thing that Von Braun created to PROVE that Direct ascent was stupid (money and time wise.) "Ohh lets put this in Nova (3) program and call it a Saturn C-8" (NOTE The Nova (3) program (or the third Time the Nova Program was restructured/relaunched) was meant for Rockets that were HUGE and the Direct Ascent rocket was less than HALF the mass of any other entry/proposals... also it didn't meet the needs as out lined in Nova (3))

Um, too many parts to make things with in Lego-a-like based space sim... And the problem is? Obviously I am slightly kidding here. BDB can be overwhelming. I have found the trick is to do things like the mod that Suppresses all stock parts (you really don't need stock when you have BTA... well err except for Aeronautics if you want to like FLY in the soup [atmosphere]) Use the RealNames patch in the BDB Extras folder! This makes things MUCH easier to find!!!!!!!! Alternatively, Use the BDB craft files to make historical spacecraft. When it comes to the Ab-Historical or just plain zanny stuff, allot more time than you think into building your stuff. And lastly when building modular ships/Stations, I suggest building it COMPLETELY in the VAB, then breaking it apart to launch your sections as intended.

And the website seems to be under maintenance again Can't react, can't post imgur links.... err what did I do now But to the point in question Thanks for posting that, it was a formula I had never known myself

It is literally one of the original Proposals for the what became the RS-25/SSME for Space Shuttle and now Artemis (as well as a few other oddball proposals) The "Jacket" is an extendable bell for higher ISP in space, the final frontier these are... rrr sorry Star Trek is on in the background

BDB does not natively support RealFuels patches... you would have to approach the maintainers of whatever real fuels mod you are using.

I am not certain but those look like ones from one of Nertea's mods Likely Near Future Solar... Which to my mind is the most important of all the mods by Nertea! (well maybe not as important as Waterfall now a days )

It is funny, Aerozine-50 (aka 50/50) didn't cost a huge amount more than Kerolox did when it was first deployed. It was only after the USAF stopped buying AZ50 for the Titan II ICBM that the cost went to the moon and back. (so 1980ish.) While "storable" Over time the fuel and oxidizer in the tanks would have to be checked, (to prevent deterioration of the liquids AND the fuel tanks they were in.) Reading between the lines it looks like a 5 to 10 year cycle (but I have no hard evidence on that, the source is a document about what happens when This or That rocket explodes and cites a lower percentage of AZ50 combining and hypergolicly igniting in a rocket failure vs Kerolox.) Given how DANGEROUS the stuff is, I am glad you went KeroLOX but a full up HydroLOX would be even better PS, LDC Titan flies fine on J-2 Sea LEvel or RL20 engines