Pappystein

And Astronautix is the most cited source for anything dealing with Space on the various Wikipedias see above

It is badly referenced on Wikipeda multiple times from other Saturn Articles for one thing. Further, for a brief period in 1960-1961 time frame (prior to June 1961) it was the defacto All up launch option because they were doing EOR instead of LOR. It was either build the spaceship in place with C-2 and C-3 or launch all at once with C-8

actually most people. I have seen when someone posts a request for C-8. Cobalt puts his flashy graphic saying basically NO. And literally one post later (and several hours) someone will post a request for C-8. I guess Trollz be Trollz But still.

Flight to come later (things to do today and because I am an idiot and didn't convert the AJ10-137 to AZ50 yet!) But here is my Saturn VI. It is a No J-2 challenge Saturn V with Hydrolox S-II and S-IVB. Ok I know I created the challenge for myself but *SHRUG* To make this work better would need completely new S-II to S-IVB inter-stage, New S-IVB engine mount for 3 or 4x engines (I know they are coming!) But the engines have to point straight down (I will have to retain the standard Saturn S-IVB inter-stage on this flight as it will hang on 2 of my 3 engines I have using the LASS engine mount. A shorter S-II tank , AND OR a double LR87-LH2 Vac engine mount to allow enough thrust. 7 LR87LH2s are at 0.75 TWR for max S-II stage fuel. I may just make that a alt engine patch for the LR87-5 double engine... would use the sea level ISP on the dbl mount but would atleast get me the extra thrust needed. S-IVB needed to be stretched for the ISP + reasonable TWR with the LR87-LH2s I also considered a single LR87-LH2 + 2 A3 engines (RL10A-3 if you didn't know was briefly called the A-3 engine by NASA) (3 meter stretch) All of this could have been built instead of the Saturn V we have. I thought I would use the game to calculate out what was needed to get the magic Delta V to the moon in JNSQ and build a rocket with the appropriate stuff. I could launch this on 5 F-1s but found the TWR to be dicey and increase the chance of a failure (using R/W metrics) S-IC stage Stretched (6meter) 6 engine with standard F-1s (no F-1As here) TWR 1.47 at launch S-II stage: 7 engine mount, default length and 80% fuel and Ox LR87 LH-2 Vac engines S-IVB stage 3Meter stretch, LASS engine mount with 3x LR87-LH2-VAC engines, Outer engines are twisted inward slightly to hopefully (but not likely) clear the interstage standard LM and standard Munnar Apollo J class SM and the rookie move:

Looked at this drawing multiple times since it was posted. Realized those are double UA-120x SRM attachments.... Mmm imagine what you could do with double the SRM on your Titan... Your Saturn.... Your huddled bundled masses On to the reality of this drawing and why it is so wrong. 1) 3.5m SRM? Try 3.05m 2) ATK SRM? Try Chemical System Division of United Aircraft 3) 315ISP with 4x LR101s and a Vaccum Rated F-1? Try closer to 300 4) The F-1V again... the combustion chamber is drawn bigger than the standard F-1 (it looks like the smallest of the M-1 drawings in my opinion) 5) SIV-B stage as they call it. 6 RL10-A3s are not enough power to get a LOR lander and Apollo capsule into final orbit / inject for Moon. Probably better to go with: LR87-LH2s! It is not A J-2 engine and it was ALREADY DEVELOPED! Oh and it WON the Hydrolox engine competition with 11 of 12 goals met (J-2 only met 9 of the 12 goals IIRC) All that being said, interesting, if flawed concept. While I don't see a Kerolox S-II stage being a benefit, I do see the Vacuum F-1V (and F-1AV?) being a small but worthy investment for things like S-ID Then again, I also see the need for engine mounts for the LR87-LH2 (dual bell Sea Level and single bell Vac on multi engine mounts) on Saturn Nice flight. 100% Joking but White CM comes tomorrow

I would think the number quoted for ISP there is high... or the bell is much bigger than they are showing. Could do a "extension" bell that is small enough and brings you to ~300 second range I would think Do love the Airlit S-IC stage idea though Real world you run into problems with Airlit as the AJ260 has a LF-O fuel tank on top of it to be long enough to reach the S-IC-S-II interstage structure (where it's forces are applied) Of course if you are talking to a Saturn 1B or ETS Saturn 1E probably not an issue (freely admit I didn't go that direction when I wrote the above.)

First off , love the subtle (and not so subtle) changes to the textures InvaderChaos! As a guy who pushed and prodded for this I am very happy to see the update. But I have to ask, did you turn an Aussie probe into a Kinetic Energy Impact testprobe? I use to love the old Titan I "warhead" and use it as an impact probe. Scaled down some stock air-brakes to help slow it SLIGHTLY (If impact happens between the physics "frames"... something easy to do above Mach 1.5 it does not matter how strong the part is... it just ceases to exist.) Used several of DMagic's science tests on that probe.

Most of the Boilerplates have humdrum existences. With the exceptions of the Flight test articles that @Araym is doing an amazing job with. They are hum-drum Mass/size/displacement simulators for training people how to deal with the real thing. The bulk of these Simulators are made of galvanized steel and wouldn't survive a test launch let alone a landing. They were often placed where a recovery crew could practice the Post astronaut recovery. https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26511.0 http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000089.html There is a Youtube video of the Restoration of at the New Mexico Space Museum... it is BP-1207... as you can see 1207 is similar to the picture for 1227. The Smithsonian has about 50 entries for Apollo Boilerplate... some are dupes but that means they own an aweful lot of them.

BTW these are amazing looking. I can't wait to launch Orange Apollos on SOFI Orange tanks

Any chance you are taking on Boilerplate 1227? The one that brought the Soviet Union and the US a little closer together by way of a wayward storm and a Spy ship thinking they were taking a great haul? Only color photo of her that I could find prior to being turned into a Time Capsule:

INT-20 and Saturn II we have in spades (the main MLV documents as well as the Saturn II documents are either on NTRS or other servers.) Any MLV variants are OK. So anything from the Saturn-I and the Saturn-V families are good. There are more like 8 or 9 C-3s. There are at-least 3 to 5 C-2s.... You see why I want those documents. I can always make more request in the future if my initial request goes through. There was no C-7 and C-8 does not interest me. If I were to jump on other rockets right away it would be some of the more unique Nova rockets.

yes, By probably Hundreds (I don't honestly know, this is more TJ's bailiwick) of man hours. I do know that the Thermo properties of the Shuttle Tank are not quite up to Saturn S-IVB standards for conductivity. It is close... but even with the greater separation between LOx and LH2 there is still more cross liquid heat transfer. Again TJ would know better than I I am considering trying an FOIA request for the pertinent pre 1960 and pre and post Silverstein configuration documents for the C-2 and the C-3. It will be my first FOIA request believe it or not. Goal is to find the actual Conceptual Engineer documents so we can get accurate info on all of the important bits that make up a rocket. What little remains on NTRS is shadows, and smoked mirrors Pretty sure it is SOFI-stretched S-IVB. But don't take my word for it. *Loads Github Desktop* Sticking with my guess above

So didn't get a chance to update last night, but today, a rare day when I get to go home for Lunch. MORE SCREEN TAX! Saturn IE-5 Stretched 1st and 2nd stage... full Lunar CSM (for mass not for any other reason) and most importantly a WORKING SIM bay on the CSM! Deleting OldParts out of GameData/BluedogDB/ is very VERY important! Launch shot and Station Update: Welp 30 minutes already! Back to work *work work work*

in game, no. And normal one would be better than SOFI as it was a "perfect Balsa" insulation.

No it isn't CURSED! That is a 5x UA-1208 Saturn II INT-18... with a BIG payload?!?! Only has a moderate first stage stretch and for some reason I am not getting the lengths for S-IVB but I got sofi so no complaints for this launch! And ERRRRRRREET! I screwed up and launched the wrong part first! Titan V LH2 (aka Titan LDC) Powered by 5x2 RL20P3s... the upper stage engine mount is not RL20 VAC compliant for 2 engine installs (I did not check but assume it is the same for XLR-129) Back to our previously flying Flight: And next, a Daytime launch (Woo Hoo!) Titan V CH4 with @EStreetRockets STBE ( you should all have this for your Titan V LDC needs!) And Current State of the new Skylab derived ISS: EDIT PS: The only BDB docking ports I am not using are the Agena Female port and the APAS75 ports from BDB. The C-100 fills the APAS75 needs and is non gendered

You guys keep playing with your smol block V stuff (I haven't had a chance to DL it yet since I am doing....) BIGGER: BETTER: Your new ISS Core (And playing with Zorg's new CADS docking ports!) I haven't decided if I am going to make the Russian Segment vertically below the Skylab or use an extension out the back to mate with the Fork N Ring port for the Russian Segment. But the US/International segments are all planned out. *EDITED* An IN VAB view of my planned International/US segments:

except none of it is classified. It WAS classified. Then it wasn't. 20+ years after declassification, it was considered a Munition. By definition a Munition is a weapon of war. So the History of the Saturn Space program is automatically a weapon of War. If Kerbal Space Program had been made in the US (by a US company) *IT* would have likely fallen under the "It's a Munition" category. Seem right to you? That is how pervasive this is. "This game deals with rockets... Rockets are Ballistic missiles... this game is a weapon of war" I don't want to get into this further here as it isn't the right venue. Instead I will just say, it is very hard to find data on the Saturn C-2, C-3 as well as the earlier Saturn A and B series because of this. While I get the A and B series (they were after all Titan and Atlas missiles on top of good old ABMA Cluster... The C series was not, and was, by design, NOT part of the Ballistic missile system (except for using the tooling to make the tanks for Cluster.

Thank you kindly! Getting sick of reports that have nothing to do with weapons being classified as weapons. Then again, I used to mod/support a Video Game that was classified as "Munitions" as well so SHRUG

Hum, Looks like a derivative/predecessor to the XLR81 from the Agena. Is that report available on the net anywhere?

Correct, What engines in the S-II stage (I am guessing RL20?) Also what kind of payload/did you offload any fuel for more payload? Sorry haven't built this one with the new parts yet

Too true. and yes fake Soviet that is a Single Stage Atlas (lets call it an Atlas B booster ) Cause Bob said not too? Good needed a 5th engine and thanks for pre-empting me on that

It has a lot of problems but yeah, It is light years better than just about every other rocket in movies up to that point.

I take it you have never seen the old James Bond Movie, You Only Live Twice? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Only_Live_Twice_(film) That is basically right out of the movie... except it was a Japanese industrialist with Ties to Spectre and not NASA. Ignore the CCCP on some of the shots. It was subterfuge

good news it appears to only affect the heat-shield at-least

There were 4(?) designs for the C-2 that I am semi-aware of. Most are known only by TEXT descriptions (no drawing exists.) The OG C-2 was the S-I JunoV stage plus the S-III stage, S-IV(4 engine 20 inch smaller diameter) Payload on top. Then there was the C-2 payload carrier which had a slightly bigger S-III stage and the full up 4(6 in actuality) engine S-IV (the as built diameter and size). This is the one we all "know about" with S-III. Then there was the Substitution of the S-II for the 4 engine S-II, which only makes sense if the JunoV stage (S-I) is E-1 powered as the E-1s had growth potential and the H-1s really didn't. Really it is the cancellation of the E-1 that doomed Saturn C-2, more than anything else. Lastly, there is the fanciful C-2 with the long S-II stage powered by H-1s. It could carry a tiny payload into a HIGH orbit. So if you needed say a 1000lb payload at 8000km orbit, this one would do that (fictitious numbers to give you an idea of what it could do)