Pappystein

So I am going to way oversimplify this. Isn't the above Nova proposal just a Saturn C3 with 4 additional S-I stages underneath in a parallel burn? I mean it would literally require one more part that a post 1961 C-3 rocket design.... the 2nd stage appears to be a twin F-1 S-I stage, the next stage is a 3 (or 4) J-2 (more likely LR-87 LH2 VAC) S-II stage, and the upper stage is a S-IV stage (RL-10s were designed to be canted out until later in the Saturn C-I/ Saturn I program) And I am sorry it would require TWO additional parts vs C-3. The S-II tank would need a stretch.

Here is the direct quote from CobaltWolf on the subject...

I think, using Agena parts, this is already possible with BDB... 4 Agenas around a probe core with a Apollo Probe...

Thanks for posting this. No I have a lot of editing to do to get my Origional Post into it

I believe this is on Benjee10's list of future features for the Shuttle Construction kit, but as has been stated previously his real world life restricts the amount of KSP building he can do. To be clear for others you mean the AJ-260 260" SRB since both the UA-120x family and whatever the final 156" SRM would have been were to fly in various combos on several Saturn Projects. err 4.25 is the more likely (and in my opinion more correct,) diameter

Pappystein's Saturn Request list. This should only be things that are NOT standard to the production standard Saturn I and V ============================================= Flat(single)-Bulkhead S-1C (Short and standard S-IC lengths) Stretched S-IC, S-II and S-IVB tanks for MLV (as switches if possible!) E-1 Engine without the 1.25m base ring + E-1A variant. Also maybe a modern belled E-1B (with the channel wall nozzle in Silver or White) Switching S-I / S-1A (E-1 engine) S-1B engine mount S-1 Cluster tank with switches for it's two stretches Saturn MLV LRB booster Saturn 156" SRM AJ-260 upper tank with fuel transfering Seperator. LR87 Hydrolox mounts for S-II and S-IVB (I assume it would have been a twin bell arrangement or a quad bell arrangement.) White extensions not redbrown All the Existing ETS parts Liquid MLV booster. Pyrios twin F-1 engine mount =========================================== Prototype Saturn parts: Both Pre and Post Silverman projects listed here PRE Original Saturn 2 rocket (with the S-I, the S-III and S-IV. Only need the S-III tank and twin engine mount for the J-2.) 4.25m S-II for the various pre-post Silverman Rockets (4 J-2s) ============================================ Oddballs and Funzies: TRW TR-106/107 Pintle engines Nerva Upper stage (I don't think we need a new Nerva engine the stock LV-N is pretty close to how that would look.) RS-2200 Linear Aerospike (it is a J-2S turbopump setup) S-IVB sized (diameter) Station parts. J-2T-400K (new nozzle it is larger in diameter.) Apollo Extension Series Base (CM/CSM lander) Remote controlled CM. (I assume this is just a different Engine mount with 4+ TRW TR-201s or AJ-10s on it.) MOBEV Ground hoppers (your choice). ============================================= CM/CSM/LEM stuff: Beyond ETS/stock CM CSM stuff I would request an Enhanced Heat shield that would be stronger to survive landing on LAND with the apollo parachutes (stock and with Realchutes) BIG-LM and BIG CM (4 Person LM and a 6 person CM with a twin engine CSM) Completely Hypothetical. Apollo A Space Station Apollo SMLL (combines landing gear from Apollo Extension Series Base with a ~2.75m to 2.5m boattail fairing for cargo landing on the Moon on a standard Service Module that has a Guidance system added.) Adapter to store 2 or 3 Langley 1 man landers and special small docking ports for use with the Langley 1 man lander and attaching to the CM or CSM. Yeah I know I am not going to get all of that (or likely even most of it) but here it is

I think the Saturn LRB proposals scale out at 3.75m still (but I could be wrong I don't have the docs infront of me.) I worked on a spreadsheet of EVERY stage we had data on (the LRBs are not one of them sadly.) It has already been shared with the BDB team. It doesn't have all the info but it is what I used to create the MLV patches in the BDB_Extras folder.

err thats been in the game since 1.6? exactly 3500 items in the Bluedog_DB folder as of this dev update!

err that would be F-1B..... But I have miss-typed it in the past myself Oh and Thanks Cobalt for listening to us when we are on the stream with you! You are as always AMAZING PS 3DPrinting comes to the Engines on BDB (F-1B had a few proposed 3D printed parts) A Quick engine does not a Saturn Update make. After all..... All the Saturn Engines were remade in BDB 1.6(?) with no Saturn Update. F-1B utilizes much of the work from that F-1/F-1A (all details at the top) Making a simple throat with little texture, a new Turbopump exhaust and a simple black bell. Probably didn't take all that long to do. Conversely the wires on Centaur T........

About the only mod that Has a complete Shuttle 2 or Shuttle C is It's details are a little light if you are used to BDB standards level but it is extremely good none the less. Other than that the best detailed Shuttle is the a for mentioned Shuttle Construction kit by Benjee. Oh and Alecentar has released a new Shuttle that is based on some of the un-built Buran derivitavies (one which is actually closer to the US Space shuttle) I have just installed Kerbolrise yesterday but have not unlocked any of the parts yet (too new in my current career) The good news, if Zorg is planning on this, is the standard Boat-tail has the huge visible seam just above the engine and that is where the Extended SRM boat tail starts so only the bottom 10th of the basic Boat tail would change.... Again IF Zorg wants to go that far... it is his part to make after all and as Dragon01 said, the Geometry is "it's time to rock the rhyme that's right on time it's Tricky... Tricky Tricky Tricky" Err.... I really shouldn't have played SSX2 on my PS3 last night till WAY past my normal bedtime!

I forgot to ask, Did you get the 6 person Nintendo Game Cube working on that Centaur D-1T? What I remember (and I am decidedly going from memory) When Methalox was "first" looked into around 2000 the RS-68 was floated as an "easy to adapt" engine... I don't know how completely re-engineering an engine is "easy to adapt" but whatever! TBC I doubt any engineering actually happened on such an engine. But who knows. In the chaos of what 4 mergers/spinnoffs in the last 25 years there are likely a lot of Rocketdyne documents we will never see.....

Isn't that actually an RS-83 if it is regenerative Cooled? For those not in the know, RS-83 is a RS-68 that has regenerative cooling and re-usability for the old 2002 erra SLI program (Space Launch Initiative) I think it was to be capable of deep throttling to less than 25% as well, vs the standard RS-68's ~45%). And as I said on stream earlier Zorg, GREAT WORK. While Delta IV is very VERY MEH to me, the DCSS and the RS68 are some of my favorite modern parts.... (yeah go figure Ignoring the CCB tanks I like all the parts... Must be because it has NOTHING to do with Delta and it is called Delta! ) It had better be Hydrolox Although if I recall correctly there was a proposal for a Methalox version as well....

err... um Centaur Jr is 1.5m in BDB scale... Vega is 1.875mm Dia.... The HOSS tank is usable as a Centaur JR analog (just use correct engine variant) There IS the "Gamma" which used some of the Vega parts for a Hydrolox upper stage. but we know... essentially LESS about that than we do Centaur Jr. That was why I asked my question the other day. Because other than a Gamma tank (which is shorter than the Vega Tank) and a different engine mount, most of the parts for Gamma are already done. And Lastly, Insulation is typically included with the Tank Configs. It is only the Early Centaur that has jettesionable foam. I don't think even Centaur Jr was planned to have jettesonable Insulation pannels.

So does this mean all that is left for Vega to be complete is the Gamma Shortie tank and the JPL GCU for the 6K stage? BTW it is THIS series of parts that I have been waiting for... I want to try to do the early Mun landings as designed with Vega+6K

Per the post the Save Vessel Interaction context selection (I think you have to do it per part but IDK

Hey, that kind of Snarky message is supposed to come from ME But you have hit my salient points without me even being here to comment. I agree 100%. no need to apologize CobaltWolf. And while COVID is becoming the most used excuse of the year, in general, You just keep working at what you can. I just wish you had time on Saturdays for Dev Streams....

That is even a little true with some of the Latter (and newer) STAR rockets. Some of the STAR-37/48 variants have a slight recess of the nozzle Others don't. And while it is a matter of an inch or 5 it could matter with the SAF. Easiest solution is to truncate the nozzle to the correct over all length if this becomes an issue (I don't know of any "real" payloads in BDB that need this on those rockets... I am just saying that a STAR-37 is not always the RIGHT STAR-37 ) That being said I think there are 14 distinct STAR-37 engine "hulls" (and a myriad of variants using those 14 "hulls" ) I think STAR-48 is easier at 8 distinct "hulls" but again about 50 variants within those 8 "hulls" the BDB team (mostly Cobaltwolf himself) has done an amazing job picking the "best" solution. BUT that does not mean it is always the "RIGHT" solution for your particular needs. OH and to be clear I am not asking for more STAR-37/STAR-48 rocket variants. We have enough already! Rather Just stating that sometimes it is impossible to build the EXACT Rocket you want as in real life. This seems to be the case (and Zorg's suggestion of the lower profile Decoupler does help a LOT in this case!)

Sorry for the near 4 day old post but @GoldForest One trick with the E-1 on the Saturn IB mount is to rotate them (I think 180 but it might just be 90 degrees right) It hides the "bulk" and makes it look "more right" Yes they are a little long... I hope when they get redone they end up like the J-2s/RL10s with no 1.25m ring (the ring can show up/through in a lot of different installations I use E-1s on. BUT as one of the cheerleaders behind the E-1 (I wasn't the only one but I did talk about it A-LOT in forum before it was drawn up in BDB ) I am glad we have what we have. As Cobalt said. It is a Saturn Part and deserves it's place in the Saturn build. While the E-1 started for Titan... the bulk of it's funding was actually from the Saturn committee I think (I don't have my sources in-front of me ATM.) E-1 was theoretically developed (and a simple prototype was fired) as a backup in case Aerojet could not deliver a functional LR87 / LR91 combo (I have no idea what Rocketdyne's 2nd stage engine would have been but likely some LR79/LR105 derivative.) But the actual prototypes were as I remember, ordered for Saturn and not Titan. the LR87/E-1 duology kind of happened with the Aerojet AR-1 and BE-4 for Vulcan (well not exactly but it is close enough)

So am I hearing that the Aero system is broken (again?) And That we might be better off with FAR (something that I do not like,) since it does it's own drag calculations? While I am not a big RealFuels user or fan, and I have my own fuel patches for BDB and B9PS.... Thanks for doing this! Not something I would use but it is nice to have such an Option available!

I will add that I have added 12 different Fuel Oxidizer types to BDB with ZERO issues by doing this. *THIS is the most flexible fuel system because you can add anything to it without having some DEV somewhere else create a new update just for you Thanks @blowfish For making, Maintaining B9PartSwitch! Thanks to both blowfish and the BDB devs for putting up with my silly questions on this.

The Intention is that you jetteson it as soon as your Rocket is in space the final front... dang it no more startrek quotes! So yeah once you reach Space the.... grrr

Where's the Brown smoke from the NTO/Nitric Acid? Seriously that looks awesome!

Ah but Steam offers easy Screenshots that out of steam are much harder to create (and look good!) So I will stay on steam and suggest to the user base as a whole (who use steam and only have one install of KSP) use the BETA tab to set KSP to stay at 1.8.1 like I did. I do this each time BDB meets the requirements to run on the KSP version and Steam will NEVER update you past that version you have selected. Oddly refreshing to have a reason to use BIG TEXT isn't it MashAndBangers? While I agree full size images are ANNOYING as HECK, a lot of quotes REFERENCE the images and without the images you can get lost as to the subject easily. So instead, you can Resize the images to a much smaller size by dbl clicking on them in your quote. I go 1/2 or 1/4th original size depending on Image orientation. Wide screen style is 1/2 and stupid almost always in-appropriate vertical cell phone style is 1/4. After all if you don't care enough about picture quality and take an image in the wrong orientation why should I care how it looks when I shrink it And yes, Photographing Rockets on the Launch pad, or a close up of an entire single human (or 2) Vertical might be approprate. The sheer majority of pictures taken today are in the wrong orientation to look good.... *Oh Crap I got on the Soap Box again didn't I* Sorry about that. *Exit Stage left*

I think the key being that the MODELS are 99.87% Correct for scaled to X or Y Size... I am guessing that Cobalt views Texturing as separate from Modelling and so unless something glaring comes up with KSP2 he won't have to make them again And Depending on how KSP2 deals with textures they could possibly be converted or at-least easy(er) to do a 2nd time. The above statement Ignores Able/Thin Delta, CASTOR-1 and 2, and a few of the early solid upper stages that should be 0.5m or less in diameter.

Wow thanks for the Naked Dome Centaur... like over half of them flew! Yay to cheaper costs on my launchers! Love the Manhole in the top of it just like the Real Centaur!