G'th

STS-8 to follow later

Gosh this sounds like so much fun. Too bad my internets garbage and at most I'd only be available for 1 full day and then nights for the rest.

^ Yes I think as time goes on you'll be quite impressed with what I can pull off. Also, promised updates are incoming. Internet went down yesterday and currently sledging through some slow internet today.

^ I agree with the parts issue. And I can definitely admit that I came at it from the perspective of someone who almost never uses 100% stock. My idea, which I do touch upon a little bit in there I think, was to re-purpose a lot of stock parts to fill in the gaps, with possible tweakscale integration to help keep the part count low. The way stock is, doing it this way wouln't look too out of place. Ideally, I think we could get away with almost no actual new parts being added. The only exception would be the flight part. This part of the game would require quite a few parts to really flesh it out well. However, I think given the current non-focus on aircraft KSP has in general (even with Squads plane focused updates as of late) I think its acceptable to not flesh this era out for stock players. Most 100% stock players I see typically don't do spaceplanes, and if they are, its never something that isn't meant to even reach Mach 1 if its an actual aircraft. After all, my intent is to never alienate any particular playstyle. While my system would introduce flight first, I don't thing it would be a good idea to force people to have to sludge through it if they just want to get to the rockets. Those that would install the likes of Firespitter are going to want to go through a really fleshed out flight first anyway, while those who won't more than likely would just as soon cheat their way past the flight era than actually play it. As for contracts, my ideas mostly just went as far as integrating much of whats already been done with that system by other modders. Beyond restructuring the system so that it plays off the tech tree and makes it make a bit more sense (IE, kill the rather silly part test contracts altogether, and replace them with the Milestone > Culmination system along with general contracts for specific parameters, like Mach 1 for 5 minutes, Mach 6 and survive, etc) I haven't had much of an idea of how to overhaul the system. Essentially progression in my system would work in 2 ways, basically depending on whether or not you go with a fleshed out Flight era. With a fleshed out flight era, the the start and early game becomes specifically about engineering. Creating planes, testing them, pushing the envelope. I just had a thought, as this could actually be heavily expanded if contracts were reconfigured to ask for specific plane configurations. Like planes with specific wing profles, different lengths, engine types, etc etc. Then, once you start to see rockets, progression keeps going based on engineering. Creating rockets, testing them, and pushing what can be done. Then as time goes on, you progress into the scientific side of things, with science becoming more of the focus. More time goes on, commercialization becomes a thing, and engineering sees a greater focus again, this time with things like spaceplanes (the essential "rocket/plane hybrid" point) and tourism and colonization capabilities needing to be tested. Time goes on, science comes back to the forefront. More time, engineering as you start to go interstellar. And so on. On the flip side, for those who don't decide to flesh out flight, progression goes as normal, but the game doesn't become "difficult" until you hit rocketry, and progression goes as above. Also, just to note, I am going to start work on this relatively soon. Been wanting to get some updates for my STS program out and internet issues have been preventing that.

Docking really isn't that bad. Nor is rendezvous even. If you can land on the Mun with any sort of precision, you can rendezvous and dock.

I don't know. But I like to think my list is pretty impressive:

Ahh yes, then I think I may be the first. My shuttle was from this: The Saturn-Shuttle Extravacatastrophy! Which was last year in July. AT that time the HL parts that comprise my Shuttle were still under development (The person who has it in that page was a tester for B9 I believe) and the B9 procedural wings didn't even exist yet.

Its possible. All I know is is when I went to create my challenge page I couldn't find anyone who had really done one. So unless it was just a picture in a topic that didn't specifically deal with the Saturn-Shuttle I didn't see it at the time.

What is KIS doing? Also, for an LRV I recommend this one: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/86343-Portable-Rover-Components-New-project-from-ASET-(up-29-07-14) It wont' be like the real thing, but its the next best thing and it still works perfectly after all this time. (so long as KIS/KAS behave nicely with it. As long as you use one of the ground platforms as a table to build the rover on it works fine)

Ha. Believe it or not I think I was among the first to actually do one. At least publicaly anyway: Its even my post popular album on imgur. Anywhoo, updates are incoming today. Real life got a little dense and then a certain disaster happened in the save (Which will be canon) that hanged things up a bit. Also spent some time getting a Kanadarm2 type thing to work, which I think I'm going to have finished up today. Once thats done I'll update with STS 2-5 and another mission that was completed as well.

This update is terrible and your mod is garbage. You should feel terrible! I would say if I was a horrible person. Great job! Love the Centaur especially. Highly useful.

Welp, now that people are starting to talk about a much bigger overhaul, I figured I may as well post my take on it, which can be found a the link below because it is huge and would have to be posted in like 5 posts on this forum. Kerbal Aeronautic and Space Program It is a lot to read, I know, but I think its a worthwhile one given what I propose. You may notice some quirks in how it was written, and that is because it was originally written using the KSP forum text editor. When I saw it was too long to post, I saved it in a text file. And going further on the ideas present in that as well as whats been spoken about already, I think the idea of actual "Engineering Points" would be a good idea to incorporate. Perhaps the stock Science Point system could be changed into an Engineering Points system, with a brand new and more easily modifiable Science point system being introduced as a separate yet concurrent progression tree. In the KASP above, I suggest providing early progression (which is driven by demonstrating KSP-engineering skills) almost purely through the contract system. Perhaps such an overhaul as this could work by granting engineering points both automatically and for accomplishing specific feats. Bonus points could also be derived from direct collection. Testing rockets should be a thing, I think, and perhaps most parts can have their own little "engineering experiments" that measure how they're handling the situation they're in. After all, and especially in the early days, rockets had all kinds of sensors on them to measure what was going on as they were operating. And of course, this system should be completely automatic (because that'd be too much to ask anybody to do during a launch). Meanwhile, specific feats like breaking the sound barrier, surviving reentry, etc etc could give solid moderately large boosts once you accomplish them, while non-specific feats like basic altitude and speed progression give smaller boosts as you go. At the same time, going far and beyond the basic and expected feats at whatever point in the game you're at providing larger boosts than if you accomplished them when you were expected. Landing on the Mun when you're still in the Flight Era, or accomplishing an Eve Flyby when you're still doing Gemini, etc etc. All in an effort to still reward those KSP wiz's who can go farther with less, but without alienating those who can't or don't even know how to play the game at all. The new science system would run side by side with this. Initial starts would just be the Crew/EVA reports and may be some very basic experiments like temperature and air pressure (which would be present automatically in cockpits as well as available as external parts). As you progress down this side, you'll start to see more in-depth atmospheric specific experiments become available. Then once you reach the spacecraft era, space specific experiments start to become available and so on and so forth. Perhaps the science tree could be split into several branches representing various scientific fields. Atmospheric science would be the basic one you start with. Then it'd branch as Geology, Chemistry, Biology, Astronomy, and so on specific experiments become available.

I agree. And with these sorts of "complicated" experiments I fully intend for it to be as smooth a procedure to do. Interstellar does its seismic experiment by requiring a siesmometer on the surface and set to a certain mode (I forget what the phrasing was) and then all you have to do is impact the surface. My version will be almost the exact same, but expanded to include full body readings (requiring multiple copies of the device spread out around the entire body) as well as partial body readings and even biome specific readings. Essentially the idea is that its really up to the player on how far you want to take it. YOu can land the device and just crash something into the surface with science increasing the closer you crash to the experiment, or you can go bigger and take a measure of the entire body. May be multiple impacts will give you more data. And so on. I believe that any game when it comes to how "complex" it is should largely depend on how deep the player wants their game to be. It should be complex enough that those who like to crunch numbers and really grind out the most points can do so, while at the same time being intuitive and simple enough that a player who just wants to fly can do a simple experiment and be done with it. Balance wise, the simple route wouldn't give you a big boost, but would still be a viable option (with the increased amount of experiments that will be available in even the simplest of landers, there's still a lot of science to gather whether you go complex or just go through it), and the complex route would take a bit of effort to accomplish, but give a significant boost. Automation would be a big part of it, and I think for the more complex experiments, like the ever present Seismic example, there shouldn't have to be any right clicking or really even any tedium on the players part other than fulfilling the experiments requirements. So, you land your seismometer and its ready to go. Just crash something into the surface, or, time warp a bit and get a reading of the natural activity. This could even be expanded to where experiments are constantly flinging reports regardless of whether you are there or not. So you land the same device and leave it. Then later you start crashing stuff into the surface. That same seismometer should still be feeding data, and combining with any other devices that have been landed since. For players with RT2, this could be expanded to where the device needs to be attached to a probe and connected and so on. And even for simple experiments, automation would really be ideal, especially for Manned missions. Kerbals are more than just monkeys after all, let them do something. Things like EVA/IVA reports should collected periodically in any given biome and collected when transferring from one biome to the next. Surface samples would require player input, but considering the massive potential samples would have with this mod, that does balance out. After all, the point is to make it so there are actually things to do once you go somewhere. Finding the awesome samples is the simplest way to encourage long term activity on the surface of any particular body. I also feel I should clarify with the whole "100 experiments" bit. In reality, I most likely won't have this amount of experiments initially, though I think in the end the amount of possible experiments will total this number. In reality, any initial release would likely just be an enhancement to the stock experiments, with additions here and there. The key point of an initial release at this time will just be a proof of concept for experiments that take time to complete as well as unlockable experiments via the tech tree. With just plain KSP code, most of the initial experiments will just be extra flavor rather than actual gameplay elements. As time goes on, the experiments will get deeper and may require new, specific parts. Indeed. I also have an idea on the backburner for a tech tree overhaul that follows a more realistic progression, that simplistically can't even be explained properly because it would be such an indepth tree. I actually typed out the progression from start to finish and it was over 20000 characters according to the text editor here. Essentially it was flight first with progression that focused on "eras" in aeronautical and astronautical engineering, with transition periods and a choice to either continue aeronautics up to a certain point or push on with rocketry, go manned or unmanned, go for spaceplanes or continued capsule development, etc etc. Instead of parts being spread out willy nilly, the idea would be that you'd unlock the parts to create a certain kind of rocket and then the parts to unlock a certain kind of spacecraft. It goes a little more indepth, but the idea was to prevent a situation where you'd have to do a Gemini flight to figure out how to make the Titan rocket that, in real life, launched the Gemini spacecraft. So if you had something like FASA installed, you'd unlock a node and you'd get everything to make the Titan ICBM, and then after that you'd get another node and you'd get everything to create the Gemini Spacecraft. The reasoning being that in real life, we didn't piece together spacecraft hodgepodge, but instead built what we needed to get the mission done. My idea was to keep it as open as possible so it could support anything from a 100% stock install to a 70+ mod install. It also included a contract overhaul that would be paired with it. During the flight engineering portion, progression would be provided almost 100% by contracts (because in real life, aircraft were not developed for purely scientific pursuits. So progression came from being paid to go faster and higher) which would wind down as science comes more to the fore front through the rocketry and spaceflight eras (and the transitional eras in between) and then snaps back to a 50/50 once commercialization comes into play. I might take what I have typed up and upload it somewhere. I think its a very interesting read even though its a gigantohuge wall of text. And as for your advice, I completely understand, and I'm eventually going to do it regardless. I just wanted to gauge how people would react to such a mod, and also crowd source some other ideas to go along with it. Your science parts are a god send . Always nice to have more stuff.

Lately, I've been thinking about doing a mod for KSP. I've done moderately successful mods for Skyrim and Morrowind before, so I have the general know how to get a project started and to see it through to the end. However, I've always been troubled by what exactly TO mod for KSP. While I could do a parts mod, I found during my stints with those other games that the modeling process took up a disproportionate amount of my free time (and their communities were not the greatest, as I had great trouble with the conversion process and most would not actually help me and instead would just blindly refer me to tutorials I had already read) so I've been hesitant to do that. So I decided to start thinking about what else I could do. And thats when it came to me that I could do something that I have, honestly been wishing someone would do for a while now. As I've been playing KSP more and more and my missions and spacecraft become more sophisticated, the more I'm beginning to run into that wall where you go somewhere, and you just have nothing to do other than to pretend you're doing something. In my time playing this game, I have seen several people start up projects that seemed promising for providing that essential "Stuff to Do!" that stock KSP lacks, but never get off the ground or go somewhere and then end up in the "What could have been" pile. The Geology mod was a notable example. At the same time, there are a couple of mods, Interstellar being the biggest example, that provide some awesome experiments that you can do but require either utilizing the entire mod or stripping the mod to just get the science parts, which can be a bit of a hassle. So, the mod I propose to do is essentially a complete overhaul of the Science system, bringing all of these great ideas that have cropped up over the years under one roof along with several of my own to create a the quintessential science mod. But whats included in that? The first thing to do, and one that I think will be the first goal just to get my feet wet, will be to introduce a TON (in the order of hundreds) of experiments. Naturally, introducing such a large amount of experiments might require a lot of parts, and potentially a lot of bloat. So my idea is to condense it by making so that the actual science parts that end up being included are more general parts that can perform a wide variety of experiments. The same thermometer part might be able to perform 3 or 4 different experiments. The same Gravioli experiment could do up to 10 different experiments, and so on and so forth. If possible, what experiments the parts can perform will be locked to the tech tree, so that as you progress you'll unlock different experiment parts and new experiments for the ones you already have. Something I want to look into is experiments that take time to complete, possibly based off of the Research option for the science lab. The point of this is to support a wider variety of mission types to a much larger variety of areas and situations, and more importantly, provide a reason to revisit areas even with the same experiment parts. What will come along with this (and more than likely afterwords) will be a re-balance of the tech tree, because obviously that will have to be done to support the quantity of experiments being introduced. Next, is an overhaul of how the Report experiment works for both IVA and EVA, as well as for Probes. I want to introduce a wider variety of situations for these reports to be taken in. Hitting Mach 1 for the first time. Flying an open spacecraft on an airless world. Airbraking in a gas giant versus a gentle dip into the atmosphere. Being at the rim of a crater versus the epicenter. And so on. Realizing this part will likely require coding, which is something I'll have to learn. After that comes the part that I know will require extensive coding, and that is the overhaul for Surface sampling (which in turn will likely also be an overhaul of how biomes work). My idea for this has been that: 1. Surface samples should have weight. 2. Their values should randomized, and even more preferably determined by a much more in-depth "biome map" for samples. Essentially, you should have to search for valuable samples to bring home. Every surface sample will have some value, but you will have to search the area you are in to find more valuable ones. There will be certain areas of any given world that might not have any valuable samples. Some areas might have super valuable samples. The thing is, you can't make it so you can sit in one spot and just repeatedly click collect until you get a good one. But you also can't make the "map" for samples so well defined that you can cover a circle around 10m of your landing craft and end up with a 100 different samples. So the idea then is to make it so that each variety of sample (from the practically worthless to the ultra rare) takes up a certain portion of the "map" that can translate to a very massive area for worthless samples (which will likely be present everywhere you go regardless, filling in the voids between the more valuable samples) and to a very specific 2-3m area for the ultra rare samples. Giving a point to exploration without it being a grind is the key point. (and lets face it, if this is too grindy for you then you aren't likely bothering with science anyway) In doing this, I also hope to change how biomes work. The "East Crater", instead of being a homogeneous area, would be an area that would produce a wide variety of results for experiments based on where exactly you are within the biome's area. The rim of the East Crater would produce different results compared to the epicenter. Some results will be slightly different. Others would be vastly different. And so on, for the different areas that may be present within the biome itself. Again, the point is to give a point to exploration and stop the current trend where you land in one spot and that covers the entire area. As such, different biomes will be more or less valuable than others. Mun's Midlands will be pretty basic. The Canyon will be fairly valuable. The Poles a lot more valuable. Areas with anomalies (which I intend to make their own mini-biomes) will be super valuable, but only for a few experiments. Along this same line will be more experiments, but this time ones that require extensive coding. Things like my own take on Seismic experiments (Such as impactors, or readings that require multiple seismometers in a variety of locations such as seen in Interstellar, except more indepth), experiments that require specific situations or multiple copies spread out (again based on Seismic experiments), as well as experiments for craft development, among other things. Think Graphotron, except extended to do even more real science. So thats my idea, as it stands in my head right now. What I would like is just some opinions from the community on whether or not this is something that's wanted, as well as what else you think might go well along these lines. I do realize that this is quite a bit to lay out without having even begun any work, however I do want to reassure anyone whose concerned about that (and I know there will be some who will be piping up with this issue) that I do know what I'm doing when laying this out like this. I have taken up and completed mods of this general scope before and worked on mods that were of an even larger scope, so long story short, I am prepared.

I find it funny that they had Bob Parker as CapCom.

Between this and Planetary Base Systems, the future for Base and Station building has never been brighter. I love these parts!

Oh wow that is just lovely! Awesome job.

Because, much like with the ISS HDEV, it was pretty and a nice thing to wake up to.

So, today I ran into an interesting bug. Or at least what appears to be one. Anyway, I sent up a Shuttle Spacelab type mission last night around this time, and because I had to go to bed I just let the game sit and had it as a screensaver, like I might do with the ISS HDEV page. When I woke up this morning to go to work, my shuttle was still in orbit and was just fine. So I went to work. Now, some 9 hours later, I come home and inexplicably my shuttle flight had popped up with the "Catastrophic Failure" box. After looking at the flight log, it appears that inexplicably around hour 15 or so of the flight (which was like, 3 Kerbal Days), my shuttle somehow went from a stable 185x120 orbit to crashing straight into the launchpad. However, the camera had not moved from I think is a point in the orbit close to apoapsis. It was as if the ship just exploded and I was stuck in its last location. So, barring someone breaking into my apartment and somehow causing my ship to explode, I believe I have run into a bug. So, don't maintain an active flight for 15 hours, at least.

^He's asking if 1.05 is going to make it so non-procedural fairings (like those in KW) will work again. They currently don't because they don't properly shield what they're covering. TC: I don't believe 1.05 will do this. However, an option is to install FAR, which does reenable the capability for these fairings to protect their payloads. While flying in FAR sounds scary, if you're used to post 1.0 aerodynamics, FAR won't be that bad of a leap you'll just have to fine tune how you fly a bit more.

It used to work way back when, but I think they never bothered to update the code for the two cheats since they started overhauling physics.

The Space Transportation System - Rebooted! With my new shuttle fully operational, I decided I would reboot my old STS series, this time with a focus more on the actual programs rather than the individual missions (One for my sanity, and two because then I don't feel obligated to be constantly posting). Also changed is the move from the Stock system to the Stock Sized Real Solar System, which introduces not only its own challenges but also a welcome change to the typical Kerbin visuals we'll be seeing in screenshots. For a start, we'll be starting off with the Moonlab program, a demonstration of orbital construction and reusability of deep space constructions. But first, the story thus far: And thus I present to you, STS 1. The first mission of the program, which served as a test flight and all-up test of the entire system.* Following STS-1, the next 3 flights flew with little to no hiccups, and adjustments being made to the entire system as it went, adjusting flight controls and on-orbit operations for ease of use. STS-2 was the first time the Orbiter would fly with a payload, carrying a series of imaging equipment and engineering sensors to test how the different components of the Orbiter were coping with the vaccuum of space. STS-3 was the first flight of Space Lab, which was a useful payload of the Orbiter that enabled to be used as a short-duration space station. However, due to the fuel cell issues**, the mission had to be aborted after less than one orbit as the crew of 4 would not be able to more than one day without losing power (and thus the ability to not only survive in space, but also come home). STS-4 followed up on this mission, with a second Spacelab mission that this time was successful. Also added as part of the standard Spacelab equipment was a pair of large deployable solar panels to augment (and for much of the flight, replace) the fuel cells of the Orbiter. With STS-5, the second space capable Orbiter, named Intrepid ,was manifested with the Earth Polar Imaging Satellite, which served as the first real test of the robotic arm in space. The arm grappled onto the satellite and moved it into a working position in the payload bay, while an EVA (also the first of the program) was conducted to activate the satellite. While the satellite by design could have been activated remotely, it was decided on to do so manually to test the ability of Kerbalnauts to work in the payload bay of the Orbiter. Intrepid would later follow up with STS-6 and 7, deploying a new constellation of ComSATs and an alignment satellite meant for use for future missions to Mars***. With the first pair of Orbiters proven as capable in their roles, the decision was made to move forward with the first major mission for the STS program: Moonlab. Many among Kerbal kind were upset when NASA announced that it would not be following up on the original Moon landings, but NASA's hands were tied as the original Trident hardware was already obsolete and a more extensive follow-up program deemed ultimately too expensive at any rate. But, public desires could not be ignored, and as such it was decided that the STS program would demonstrate its capability for orbital construction by putting together a relatively small and reusable spacecraft that would be able to travel to the Moon, orbit it for an extended amount of time, and then return to Earth. While the design did not include any manned landings, it would however support autonomous sample return later in the program, and with potential upgrades (aptly named Moonlab2) could possibly end up supporting manned landings provided a suitable lander could be acquired. The Moonlab spacecraft would be constructed by the two Orbiters, and then for Moonlab expeditions, would have supplies and the standard crew of 4 delivered by the orbiters. After an expedition has ended and returned to Earth, an Orbiter would launch to rendezvous with the station (with a basic crew of two pilots, the minimum required to operate the orbiter on-orbit) to bring the crew and any acquired down-mass back to Earth. STS-8 would be the first launch of the Moonlab program, delivering the Command module as well as the Utility Node (nicknamed Crossroads by the engineers, due to it being the quintessential "crossroad" between the experiment modules, the command module, the Habitation module, and the PMA that the orbiter docks to) to a TLI-capable LEO. *In reality this wasn't my actual STS-1, as can be seen just by reading the album. However, I have very little desire in re-flying my real STS-1 given that my demonstration flight was almost identical, even right down to the Cuba landing. I also didn't want to leave the first post without anything to show for it, in any case. **In reality, this was because I had underestimated the power consumption of the Science lab part I used for my Spacelab. The addition of solar panels in STS-4 resolved this issue, as the Orbiter would be able to run on the Fuel cell during the night side of the orbit, and on the solar panels for the day side, resulting a possible mission time of 24 days. ***This sattelite is required because of how SSRSS is. Its really hard to launch into the correct inclination for any other body (including the Moon), as the combination the 28* inclination you have to launch from combined with the larger distances between the planets/Moon makes it so you can't just eyeball it. So, alignment sattelites in LEO, that I align with the target body after the fact, serve as a target that I can easily launch into.

^ There is a 1.04 version of B9 out. Only issue I've encountered seems to be with the cargobays not functioning as they should be but other than that it works awesome. I recommend cutting his wings though and switching to his procedural ones.

^ not necessarily. He's still doing stuff for KSP. Its just that around the time he started doing Konquest he also started like 3 or 4 other projects, so it wasn't surprising that this got put on the backburner. I'm sure he'll eventually pick the mod back up and get it released though, even if its just to get what he already has out so someone else can take up the helm. This thread gets resurrected every couple of days/weeks. Eventually he'll do something

^ Just go through the B9_Aerospace/Parts folder and delete what you don't want. It may require actually looking at the .CFG's if you don't recognize what things are just from the folder names. And, ProcWings ddoes still work. Or at least blowfish's version does. And honestly its better than the basic one anyway: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/104966-1-0-2-B9-Aerospace-Procedural-Parts-0-40-Updated-09-06-15 Says 1.02 but I haven't had any issues with them in 1.04. Made my new shuttle possible without looking like garbage and only taking 40 parts for just the Orbiter itself: - - - Updated - - - ^ Just go through the B9_Aerospace/Parts folder and delete what you don't want. It may require actually looking at the .CFG's if you don't recognize what things are just from the folder names. And, ProcWings ddoes still work. Or at least blowfish's version does. And honestly its better than the basic one anyway: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/104966-1-0-2-B9-Aerospace-Procedural-Parts-0-40-Updated-09-06-15 Says 1.02 but I haven't had any issues with them in 1.04. Made my new shuttle possible without looking like garbage and only taking 40 parts for just the Orbiter itself: