Finding a flat spot to land on Mun.

[Kurld]

Other than eyeballing it, is there some way to discern the slope of the ground underneath a descending craft? And, to be honest, you simply can't eyeball it very well: ground that appears to be flat from several thousand meters up invariably has some degree of slope to it when the craft actually touches down. For one craft, it's not that big of a deal, but I'm thinking of building a base, and it would be nice to find a extended area of flat terrain to make that happen.

I tried the SCAN-sat mod. It has a slope map, but I don't see any way to zoom in enough for it to be helpful for this purpose.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Kurld

[Nemrav]

While people will tell you to go in the big craters, they are filled with mini craters which make landing horrible.

What makes good flat spots is the ground right next to a large craters edge from my experience.. also it means science biome hopping is easier...

But the only perfectly flat ground on the mun is the armstrong memorial...

[UnusualAttitude]

Did you know you can zoom in on the big ScanSat map by left clicking ? You can even zoom in multiple times...

Uh, right clicking, sorry.

Edited March 18, 2015 by UnusualAttitude

[Superfluous J]

Land near the day/night terminator. You'll be able to tell the flat ground because it's not casting too many shadows.

But unlike Nemrav, I suggest the middles of craters. Sure, there are craters within those craters but there are craters outside of them too, and if you can avoid those little craters you'll be fine.

Plus, it'll give you practice for when you're landing next to your ISRU base when 1.0 drops.

[michaelhester07]

Kerbal engineer will tell you the slope of the ground directly below your ship. My strategy is to look for valleys between craters or mountains. If those aren't flat enough the center of any moderate size crater is usually flat. The tops of mountains are also usually flat spots. If your ship has enough torque (reaction wheels) you can land practically anywhere. If you're planning to land anything significantly large or build on site with in-situ resources then you should send a small probe or rover to survey a candidate site and to mark the location of the really flat spot.

If all else fails... the lakes on Minmus are perfectly flat.

[eddiew]

Kerbal Engineer will tell you the slope of the terrain underneath you, but only below a couple of km altitude.

Other than that, I agree with the chaps above; bottoms of craters, and be prepared to adjust your descent as you come in. Bear in mind the Apollos had to do fine tuning within the last few hundred feet too

As an off-the-wall suggestion; maybe consider a base by the Armstrong Memorial, visible on the ScanSat map as an anomaly near the equator. It's reasonably flat for a few km around it.

[Wanderfound]

If all else fails... the lakes on Minmus are perfectly flat.

Almost. They have a bump or two, but nothing you'd notice unless you're doing serious speed.

[Scarecrow88]

You could always send an unmanned probe. With the right design, you could hop from place to place on the surface until you find what you are looking for.

[AmpsterMan]

Indeed there is no Stock way of telling besides eyeballing it. There are a few tricks that can help you not explode whilst landing, however.

Landing near the terminator line helps in various ways: is easy to tell how far off from the ground you are because of the shadow and there are fewer visual artifacts to distort the ground.

Another tip comes from landing ship design. The lander cans provide great downward views. From the IVA view, you can zoom in pretty far to see the relative flatness of the ground. Furthermore, if you put some landing lights, the curvature of the ground becomes easier to see because of the distortions in the light. Finally, i usually put RCS on all my landing craft for fine tuning of my descent.

While that wasn't the answer you we looking for, it may help with dealing with non flat land.

[zarakon]

I just try to build my landers more wide than tall so that they remain stable on slopes

[Mister Dilsby]

Hey, just go for it--it's part of the fun! Armstrong famously missed his pre-arranged flat spot and maneuvered for a landing with 25 seconds of fuel left for the descent engine. To increase your odds, pack extra delta-v, land in daylight, and put some lights on the bottom so you can see features clearly.

It also helps to pay attention to the navball: in 'surface' mode the retrogade marker is pointing directly away from the local surface and not the planet center, this will give you some clue of slope as you come in.

ETA: Kuzzter was talking out of his retrogage marker here. Sorry.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Mister Dilsby

[vixr]

It also helps to pay attention to the navball: in 'surface' mode the retrogade marker is pointing directly away from the local surface and not the planet center, this will give you some clue of slope as you come in.

Ha! just learned something new!!! I always thought I was just a little tilted in my approach. Thank you sir...

[Branjoman]

I remember seeing somewhere a neat trick for landing on slopes if your lander has a tri-leg design. You angle one of your legs so it is pointing down the slope and lock its suspension.

[eddiew]

It also helps to pay attention to the navball: in 'surface' mode the retrogade marker is pointing directly away from the local surface and not the planet center, this will give you some clue of slope as you come in.

Retrograde points against your direction of motion... if it's doing what you say in surface mode, then it's not retrograde anymore :S

[Mister Dilsby]

Retrograde points against your direction of motion... if it's doing what you say in surface mode, then it's not retrograde anymore :S

Well, I could be wrong here, but I think what it's doing is pointing against your direction of motion relative to the local surface. At least it seemed to work that way to me when I was landing on slopes...will research!

ETA: Yep, I'm wrong. You can clearly see it in the below, I am hovering over a significant slope with nearly zero horizontal velocity and the marker is pointing straight up, relative to center of planet and not to local surface. Apologies!

I think what got me confused was noticing that the marker was not correct in 'orbit' mode when I was landing (due to rotation effects being significant) and I made the assumption that this was why. I guess I need to return my undeserved rep for that "tip" now

Edited March 18, 2015 by Mister Dilsby

[sbski]

Other than eyeballing it, is there some way to discern the slope of the ground underneath a descending craft? And, to be honest, you simply can't eyeball it very well: ground that appears to be flat from several thousand meters up invariably has some degree of slope to it when the craft actually touches down. For one craft, it's not that big of a deal, but I'm thinking of building a base, and it would be nice to find a extended area of flat terrain to make that happen.

I tried the SCAN-sat mod. It has a slope map, but I don't see any way to zoom in enough for it to be helpful for this purpose.

Yes! there is an easy way: Use http://www.kerbalmaps.com/

You will need to select the planet/ moon that you would like, change the map type to slope and then look for larger areas of dark blue and blue, they are the areas with a slope that is not that big. Personally, without anything, the center of craters is where I aim for when landing. Hope this helps.

- sbski

- - - Updated - - -

Also, the best landers are simple and can land on almost any slope (up to about 45 degrees =D). Personal my favorite lander is the 1 kerbal landing can with 2 generators and 4 landing gear on the can. Then, it has 1 1meter RCS tank below the pod, 2 radial RCS pods on the the tank and finally just 2 RCS engines. You can then add a docking port, parachutes or what ever you want. This lander is great because it has about 1700-1800 delta V and has and if it doesn't have the thrust to weight that you want, you can simply add more RCS engines because they have NO weight. So generally, Just don't care where I land because it has a very low center of mass.

[wibou]

Another hints is to avoid the poles!

The mun and minmus (and most celestial bodies?) have very accidented terrains near poles, with sudden edges and high slopes.

However it WILL give you the most spectacular views... just make sure to pack enough delta-v to hover during the descent to some nicer ground. And having a good TWR will make it easier to react instantly.

[sbski]

Another hints is to avoid the poles!

The mun and minmus (and most celestial bodies?) have very accidented terrains near poles, with sudden edges and high slopes.

However it WILL give you the most spectacular views... just make sure to pack enough delta-v to hover during the descent to some nicer ground. And having a good TWR will make it easier to react instantly.

I agree, also... NEVER GO TO THE NORTH POLE OF MOHO! It has a giant hole that goes down around 4.7 km and can be very glitchy. I remember the first time I found it, I was driving a rover between 2 bases and fell into it while afk eating a sandwich. No one died but I had to launch a rescue mission for them.

[GreenWolf]

Scansat actually can tell you the slope of the land directly under you, without needing to have the map open (or needing to have an extra part/engineer kerbal like Kerbal Engineer Redux). If you're using Blizzy's toolbar, when you click the Scansat button, it should bring up a dropdown menu with options to pull up the small map, the big map, settings, etc... Click the one labeled "Instruments", and it will pull up a little tab displaying your altitude above ground level, the slope of the ground directly below you, and the biome you're currently over. Not sure how you pull up the tab using the stock toolbar, since I don't use it, but it should be there.

[LordFerret]

The SCANsat mod, using the BTDT scanner on your craft, will give you a readout of the slope in degrees beneath you (as well as what Biome you're in). Even works on your rover, so you don't need to rely on the Navball, although the Navball does give you a good clear indication of the slope's orientation.

(Ninja'd by GreenWolf lol)

[Jouni]

Also, the best landers are simple and can land on almost any slope (up to about 45 degrees =D).

I once built a lander that almost required a steep slope to land on.

[GreenWolf]

I once built a lander that almost required a steep slope to land on.

*snipped

Nice belly-lander. Don't think I've ever seen one that only has tail engines before.

[Kurld]

Thanks for all the replies folks, especially the tips about Scansat showing the slope. I did see you could zoom in but didn't realize you can zoom in more than once. That will probably help. I've used KER for a long time but never noticed the info about slope since mainly I just use it to keep track of delta-v.

I generally don't have trouble landing on a slope since my landers are low and wide, for the most part. Just, aesthetically, I'd much prefer to build a base somewhere reasonably flat.

I'm embarrassed to admit I've never been to the Armstrong memorial.

[Superfluous J]

I'm embarrassed to admit I've never been to the Armstrong memorial.

It's a nice big target once you know it's there. It's the first thing I ever landed right next to without any guidance from the game (because you can't target it) and nailing that taught me a lot about pinpoint landing. It'd be cool to build a base around it.

[Rematog]

I love my belly lander. It keeps my Atomic Rocket motor out of the dirt without all those ugly struts and girders. But yes, I do use radial mounted engines on the sides facing down (trick is to put them at the CG and design craft sofuel full/full empty CG doesn't change much ). Nice thing is, only need a couple of chutes (also at CG) for return to Kerbal, use thrusters to get below 12 m/s and get my whole lander back.