[1.3] [Kopernicus] New Horizons v2.0.1 [2JUN17] - It's Back!

[KillAshley]

In other other news, I'm having problems keeping things in high polar orbit of Mun. There seems to be a chance that whenever I look away, it will suddenly ping out of orbit and the next thing I know it's firing out of Sonnah's SoI I don't know whether this is down to NH however, so this is just a "have you ever seen this happen?" rather than a bug report ^^;

First, thanks! I created this to be a challenge. I wanted to get that feeling of exploration and accomplishment back after losing it hundreds of game hours ago.

anyway, this orbit bug hapened a LONG time ago and was fixed already [sarcasm]I'm so gald it decided to turn up again[/sarcasm]. I'll have a look into it ASAP while my nose is still buried in the next update.

[AstroWolf]

A while back I downloaded this mod, and moved it to the GameData folder. It worked fine for a while, but after I took it out for a while and put it back in, all of the textures were missing.

I took it out and re-installed it.

Now it doesn't even work.

Can I have some help?

[eddiew]

anyway, this orbit bug hapened a LONG time ago and was fixed already [sarcasm]I'm so gald it decided to turn up again[/sarcasm]. I'll have a look into it ASAP while my nose is still buried in the next update.

Sorry ^^; I did check I was running the latest published version not some ancient flavour

Also, I'm getting regular (yet apparently random) times when I go to the launch pad, and I get some weird, serrated terrain and my rocket is 2km in the air, yet still on the launch clamps... If I zoom out, I can see the whole world is made up of slices with sharp edges, rather than being a sphere. I didn't mention it last post because I wanted to spend a day without NH and see if it still happened - which it didn't, so... yeah, funny terrain thing happening. Mostly restarting the game will clear it.

And as a random question, does Sonnah's SoI have to be so durn big? The visuals are awesome, but it's a proper pain to go interplanetary due to the delta-v, and choosing the optimal launch time is hard because orbits take so long to get you into the transfer position. I wonder if a smaller Sonnah might be more approachable? Maybe just 5-6x the mass of Kerbin, with its moons just far enough that their SoI's don't overlap? Just a thought

- - - Updated - - -

A while back I downloaded this mod, and moved it to the GameData folder. It worked fine for a while, but after I took it out for a while and put it back in, all of the textures were missing.

I would have to guess that you haven't reinstalled it correctly... there's no reason that any mod shouldn't be removable/re-addable. It can however mess up your existing save game, due to contracts and crew stats and vessels having data that relates to planets that aren't there anymore. If you're seeing no extra planets, then either NH or one of its dependencies just isn't in the right place ^^

[KillAshley]

A while back I downloaded this mod, and moved it to the GameData folder. It worked fine for a while, but after I took it out for a while and put it back in, all of the textures were missing.

I took it out and re-installed it.

Now it doesn't even work.

Can I have some help?

re download/reinstall if that fails can you try a fresh install in a clean game if possible? just to check that it's working :/

Sorry ^^; I did check I was running the latest published version not some ancient flavour

Also, I'm getting regular (yet apparently random) times when I go to the launch pad, and I get some weird, serrated terrain and my rocket is 2km in the air, yet still on the launch clamps... If I zoom out, I can see the whole world is made up of slices with sharp edges, rather than being a sphere. I didn't mention it last post because I wanted to spend a day without NH and see if it still happened - which it didn't, so... yeah, funny terrain thing happening. Mostly restarting the game will clear it.

And as a random question, does Sonnah's SoI have to be so durn big? The visuals are awesome, but it's a proper pain to go interplanetary due to the delta-v, and choosing the optimal launch time is hard because orbits take so long to get you into the transfer position. I wonder if a smaller Sonnah might be more approachable? Maybe just 5-6x the mass of Kerbin, with its moons just far enough that their SoI's don't overlap? Just a thought

- - - Updated - - -

I would have to guess that you haven't reinstalled it correctly... there's no reason that any mod shouldn't be removable/re-addable. It can however mess up your existing save game, due to contracts and crew stats and vessels having data that relates to planets that aren't there anymore. If you're seeing no extra planets, then either NH or one of its dependencies just isn't in the right place ^^

I'll lower the GeeASL of Sonnah for the next update, should lower it's SOI a bit, but it's still gonna be big due to how far from the sun it is

As for the the terrain glitching out, hopefully the next update is more stable, just got a few more fine details to look over before i upload it

[Katchau]

Diving into Sarnus´s atmosphere instantly overheats your craft , even with heat-shields and radiators.

Is this intended or patched in the upcoming patch ?

I would love to gather those last science points but entering the atmosphere for just a second is enough to explode your ship.

Even so I´m really enjoing your mod. ^^

[KillAshley]

Diving into Sarnus´s atmosphere instantly overheats your craft , even with heat-shields and radiators.

Is this intended or patched in the upcoming patch ?

I would love to gather those last science points but entering the atmosphere for just a second is enough to explode your ship.

Even so I´m really enjoing your mod. ^^

Sarnus?

[MinimumSky5]

If it is Sarnus you want support for, ask on the Outer Planets Mod forum.

[KillAshley]

I can assume (hopefully) that you mean Sonnah? What speed are you hitting the atmosphere at? that angle are you coming in at?

The atmospheres changed alot during the 1.x overhaul of ksp's aerodynamics, if you try and aerobrake at Jool these days you get torn apart quite violently. When entering the atmospheres of ANY gas giant these days you really need to be careful, as they are not as gentle as they used to be

[Katchau]

I can assume (hopefully) that you mean Sonnah? What speed are you hitting the atmosphere at? that angle are you coming in at?

The atmospheres changed alot during the 1.x overhaul of ksp's aerodynamics, if you try and aerobrake at Jool these days you get torn apart quite violently. When entering the atmospheres of ANY gas giant these days you really need to be careful, as they are not as gentle as they used to be

Yeah , sorry mixed up the names there.

I Was talking about Sonnah.

Can´t remember the precise speed but I think it was around 12km/s . The AP was at Kerbins orbit. Would it be possible to make the transition into the atmosphere smoother? My PE was just 50 meter into the atmosphere but my craft hit it like a wall of fire ^^

Edited July 7, 2015 by Katchau

[KillAshley]

Yeah , sorry mixed up the names there.

I Was talking about Sonnah.

Can´t remember the precise speed but I think it was around 12km/s . The AP was at Kerbins orbit. Would it be possible to make the transition into the atmosphere smoother? My PE was just 50 meter into the atmosphere but my craft hit it like a wall of fire ^^

Theres your problem dude! you really cant enter ANY atmosphere at 12km/s...seriously even Jool will tear you apart before you realize you've hit the border!

The atmospheres changed alot during the 1.x overhaul of ksp's aerodynamics, if you try and aerobrake at Jool these days you get torn apart quite violently. When entering the atmospheres of ANY gas giant these days you really need to be careful, as they are not as gentle as they used to be

New Horizons uses stock curves for it's atmospheric planets, so I'm not going to lower them, you have to make sure you burn ff that speed before trying to enter the atmosphere of a gas giant. You'll explode every time otherwise

[MinimumSky5]

I actually had something similar, some debris hit Sonnahs atmosphere very steeply, I wasn't expecting it to last long, but I was expecting it to survive at least 40Km, instead it just exploded violently as soon as it touched the atmosphere. I looked at Sonnahs atmosphere, and to be honest, 17 atmospheres at 285Km depth seems way too harsh, even though it would be realistic.

[eddiew]

I'll lower the GeeASL of Sonnah for the next update, should lower it's SOI a bit, but it's still gonna be big due to how far from the sun it is

As for the the terrain glitching out, hopefully the next update is more stable, just got a few more fine details to look over before i upload it

Awesome, cheers dude The terrain glitch is... odd...

Cliffs like that appeared as concentric rings from pole to pole around Kerbin O_o

I have also noticed the insta-kill with Sonnah, btw. I wanted to grab some science then suicide into the upper atmo, but it kills you before you can report :/

[MinimumSky5]

That terrain is reminding me of a certain blocky sandbox game!

[ABZB]

I have also noticed the insta-kill with Sonnah, btw. I wanted to grab some science then suicide into the upper atmo, but it kills you before you can report :/

It seems that Sonnah rotates at a speed that is very different than any orbital speed near it - so re-entry is at several thousand m/s. I tried disabling heat mechanics (checkbox in F12 menu) right before atmospheric entry - I survived, and decelerated from about 14000 m/s to about 1500 m/s in only several seconds. I think that some combination of the atmospheric properties and the rotation speed of Sonnah might need to be redone.

[KillAshley]

It seems that Sonnah rotates at a speed that is very different than any orbital speed near it - so re-entry is at several thousand m/s. I tried disabling heat mechanics (checkbox in F12 menu) right before atmospheric entry - I survived, and decelerated from about 14000 m/s to about 1500 m/s in only several seconds. I think that some combination of the atmospheric properties and the rotation speed of Sonnah might need to be redone.

I'm not going to sit here and enter a debate on how atmospheres should be, fact of the matter is that

1. Sonnah follows Jools atmospheric curve EXACTLY, try entering Jool's atmosphere at 14km/s you'll find the exact same thing, your ship will explode from the friction caused by the reentry
   
2. Gas giants have an incredibly thick atmosphere, you need to slow yourself down to a reasonable speed to reenter anyway, complaining that you explode when reentering an atmosphere at such incredible speeds is like complaining that the sun is too bright, it's just physics - not a bug
   
3. Rotation speed of Sonnah is ALOT slower than any other body near it, it's even less than half the rotation speed of Jool.
   

If you have any suggestions please feel free to let me know, however saying that you want to be able to enter a gas giants atmosphere at 14km/s and be completely fine is like asking me to let you land on the Sun - and is not going to happen

In the next update Sonnah's GeeASL has been reduced to help initial escape from the system to other bodies, and this will also lower the speeds at which you orbit the giant, but that is the only change happening to Sonnah any time soon. If you want to have an easy mode where rentry in a gas giant is pain free, then the alt+F12 menu will have to suffice.

[Katchau]

I´m ok with how Sonnah is right now .

I only think a boost in science value for atmospheric science would be fair as it now cost a significant amount of deltaV more to collect them without burning up in an instant.

[KillAshley]

I´m ok with how Sonnah is right now .

I only think a boost in science value for atmospheric science would be fair as it now cost a significant amount of deltaV more to collect them without burning up in an instant.

deal

you'll find reentry a little easier with the reduced GeeASL in v1.6, but you still need to be careful how fast you are travelling

[eddiew]

In fairness, I've read other threads since 1.0.4 complaining that atmospheric entry (not re-entry since you didn't start there ) on Jool is basically impossible now. I suspect it's KSP on the whole that's killed Sonnah rather than you KillAshley

Btw, apologies if I seem to pick on NH with problem reports - I actually really like the set up and I'm keen to give playtesting feedback so that you can get it as well balanced as possible ^^; Kerbin as a moon is really cool, but the ~1200m/s it adds to interplanetary (and back?) is very punishing and I'm glad to see you've cut it back a little for next release Tbh, my biggest worry now is getting back to Kerbin and whether it'll be intercept-able, or whether I'll have to aerobrake somewhere less favourable.

Oddly I don't mind Mun being harder to get to - it's always been a bit too easy to farm for science, it's nice that getting to it and back is now surprisingly close to going to Duna in stock. Makes it more appealing to start the game by flinging probes out to do flybys of as many planets as you can reach to gather the science points to set boots on Mun

I think if I had one additional request, it would be some green on the oxygenated planets. By and large, oxygen is hard to make without biology, and even some algae (with a good science return value ) would be more fun to find than the explodium seas of Eve ^^

Edited July 7, 2015 by eddiew

[KillAshley]

In fairness, I've read other threads since 1.0.4 complaining that atmospheric entry (not re-entry since you didn't start there ) on Jool is basically impossible now. I suspect it's KSP on the whole that's killed Sonnah rather than you KillAshley

Btw, apologies if I seem to pick on NH with problem reports - I actually really like the set up and I'm keen to give playtesting feedback so that you can get it as well balanced as possible ^^; Kerbin as a moon is really cool, but the ~1200m/s it adds to interplanetary (and back?) is very punishing and I'm glad to see you've cut it back a little for next release Tbh, my biggest worry now is getting back to Kerbin and whether it'll be intercept-able, or whether I'll have to aerobrake somewhere less favourable.

Oddly I don't mind Mun being harder to get to - it's always been a bit too easy to farm for science, it's nice that getting to it and back is now surprisingly close to going to Duna in stock. Makes it more appealing to start the game by flinging probes out to do flybys of as many planets as you can reach to gather the science points to set boots on Mun

I think if I had one additional request, it would be some green on the oxygenated planets. By and large, oxygen is hard to make without biology, and even some algae (with a good science return value ) would be more fun to find than the explodium seas of Eve ^^

yeah i just pretty much didn't want this thread turning into an argument so i though I'd boot it beforehand

keep the problems coming though dude, as each one is another bug for me to fix up to polish it more. Hopefulyl i can actually release the next update soon, been kinda stuck between games and work but I've got plenty of stuff done already so hopefully i can find time to finish it all off.

oh and as for the green, I'm still hoping and waiting for custom ground scatter for that

[eddiew]

Ahh, sounds good, I would love to see some alien plants - may also be interesting to note that early bacteria on earth turned the oceans/rocks purple and didn't kick out oxygen Those little guys thrived in a high carbon-dioxide atmosphere and would probably do well on the next planet out from Kerbin. I believe that was the archaen eon of history, if you're at all interested.

Have you thought about using something like DMagic's Celestial Body Science Editor to give some heft (or triviality) to visiting particular destinations? Sonnah orbit, for example, is pretty cheap and easy to get to/from, but gives decent science return. Feels like it deserves busting down to not much more than Kerbin for balance's sake ^^

[MoeKitsune]

That terrain is reminding me of a certain blocky sandbox game!

Minecraft.

[MinimumSky5]

Have you thought about using something like DMagic's Celestial Body Science Editor to give some heft (or triviality) to visiting particular destinations? Sonnah orbit, for example, is pretty cheap and easy to get to/from, but gives decent science return. Feels like it deserves busting down to not much more than Kerbin for balance's sake ^^

I thought that Celestial Body Science Modifier was something the player could use? If it is, there is no need for KillAshley to mess with it.

[KillAshley]

Have you thought about using something like DMagic's Celestial Body Science Editor to give some heft (or triviality) to visiting particular destinations? Sonnah orbit, for example, is pretty cheap and easy to get to/from, but gives decent science return. Feels like it deserves busting down to not much more than Kerbin for balance's sake ^^

I'll have another tweak to Sonnah's science, lower the orbital science to be pretty much even with Kerbin, and raise the atmospheric flight science up a notch

All my science values are done in a spreadsheet that updates each planet for me really. I just have to manually tweak some values to get it back up, most are pretty decently balanced....just little thing such as risk vs rewards which need refining atm

[eddiew]

I thought that Celestial Body Science Modifier was something the player could use? If it is, there is no need for KillAshley to mess with it.

It is, but you have to know the body indexes of every planet, and that's not easy to get at (you need a contract for it, then go snooping in your save file). I was just wondering whether pulling in CBSE and providing a default profile might be an easier way to tweak science returns, however...

I'll have another tweak to Sonnah's science, lower the orbital science to be pretty much even with Kerbin, and raise the atmospheric flight science up a notch

...it seems obvious that mod writers have their own ways of handling it

[KillAshley]

It's pretty simple to edit the values using kopernicus, as long as you can spell the planet name the values are pretty simple