[WIP][1.9.x-1.12.x] Scatterer-atmospheric scattering (0.0838 - 14/08/2022) Scattering improvements, in-game atmo generation and multi-sun support

[OrbitalManeuvers]

1 hour ago, blackrack said:

That your Kerbin atmosphere config is missing or named incorrectly, in other words, better reinstall your mods and configs one by one

OK, I started with 1.8.1 only the 2 squad folders in GameData. Then I installed (by hand) Kopernicus, JNSQ, Eve, scatterer. Everything runs fine.

Added AVP (a single directory) and the 8k AVP textures (2 merged folders) and now ... water is gone, and scatterer is spamming nullrefs. 

JNSQ has a kerbin atomosphere definition. AVP has a file avp_configs\atmosphere.cfg which has a blank eve atmosphere config in it. I tried removing that file, but I get the same results. So, without totally understanding this ... somewhere in the AVP configs there's something replacing(?) the JNSQ config for Kerbin atmosphere?

p.s. I really appreciate your help with this!

Edited August 3, 2020 by OrbitalManeuvers
added ps

[Hohmannson]

2 hours ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

OK, I started with 1.8.1 only the 2 squad folders in GameData. Then I installed (by hand) Kopernicus, JNSQ, Eve, scatterer. Everything runs fine.

Added AVP (a single directory) and the 8k AVP textures (2 merged folders) and now ... water is gone, and scatterer is spamming nullrefs. 

JNSQ has a kerbin atomosphere definition. AVP has a file avp_configs\atmosphere.cfg which has a blank eve atmosphere config in it. I tried removing that file, but I get the same results. So, without totally understanding this ... somewhere in the AVP configs there's something replacing(?) the JNSQ config for Kerbin atmosphere?

p.s. I really appreciate your help with this!

AVP is not for JNSQ. It is for stock system and OPM afaik. Try Ad Astra if you need AVP visuals in JNSQ.

[Shoujo Q]

KSP: 1.10.1.2939 Windows 64bit

Problem: Godrays from the sun disappear when there is a spacecraft between the camera and the centre of the sun.

Mods installed:

Reproduction steps:

Send a craft to an orbit near the sun, or load up such a craft, then manipulate the camera until the craft is between the sun and the camera. The godrays will disappear.

[blackrack]

1 hour ago, Shoujo Q said:

KSP: 1.10.1.2939 Windows 64bit

Problem: Godrays from the sun disappear when there is a spacecraft between the camera and the centre of the sun.

Mods installed:

Reproduction steps:

Send a craft to an orbit near the sun, or load up such a craft, then manipulate the camera until the craft is between the sun and the camera. The godrays will disappear.

These aren't godrays, it's the sunflare, and yes that's how it works, if something occludes the sun (only one point at the center is checked) the flare disappears.

Potentially I can check multiple points and make the sunflare dim with the amount of sun coverage instead of just cutting out when something covers the center point.

Edited August 6, 2020 by blackrack

[Shoujo Q]

12 minutes ago, blackrack said:

These aren't godrays, it's the sunflare, and yes that's how it works, if something occludes the sun (only one point at the center is checked) the flare disappears.

Potentially I can check multiple points and make the sunflare dim with the amount of sun coverage instead of just cutting out when something covers the center point.

My bad. If that's how it is intended to work, then that's fine. I just thought it might have been unintended, since it causes a weird transition when you're moving the camera around and suddenly the sun gets a LOT dimmer for just a moment.

[TimKerbin]

KSP: 1.10.1.2939 Windows 64bit

Problem: Massive frame-rate drops when moving from Map View to Ship View

Mods installed:

Audio Muffler Redux
Chatterer
DistantObject
KerboKatz (a little onscreen framerate monitor)
NavBallDockingAlignmentIndicatorCE
PlanetShine
RealPlume
RealPlume-Stock
SmokeScreen
Squad
TextureReplacer
TweakScale

(Most mods were carried over from 1.9.1 without a problem.)

Reproduction steps:

I installed Scatterer, tried moving from Map View to Ship View (size of vessel doesn't matter, the issue still occurs), and frame-rate drops from 30-60fps to 3fps. The entire game, UI, menus, drops to 3 fps. Sometimes it recovers, but mostly it doesn't and I have no option but to CTRL-ALT-DEL and end it in Task Manager. When I remove the Scatterer folder, I am no longer able to reproduce this issue, everything behaves as it should. KSP Debug menu and the ksp log file show nothing abnormal during frame-rate drop (the Performance window shows the frame-rate drop). I tried using the default Scatterer folder/settings, and my custom folder/settings. The results were the same. I tried removing other mods to see if they were to blame but I haven't had this problem until I installed the 0.0621b update.

[HafCoJoe]

Heyo, I'm getting a NullRef from Scatterer/Spectra and was curious if you know what the cause is/if there is anything I can do to fix-

[EXC 15:52:53.903] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	scatterer.SkyNode.cleanupScaledScatteringMaterial () (at <c242f3d90315428492d244d6912c4c64>:0)
	scatterer.SkyNode.Cleanup () (at <c242f3d90315428492d244d6912c4c64>:0)
	scatterer.ProlandManager.OnDestroy () (at <c242f3d90315428492d244d6912c4c64>:0)
	scatterer.ScattererCelestialBodiesManager.UpdateProlandManagers () (at <c242f3d90315428492d244d6912c4c64>:0)
	scatterer.ScattererCelestialBodiesManager.Update () (at <c242f3d90315428492d244d6912c4c64>:0)
	scatterer.Scatterer.Update () (at <c242f3d90315428492d244d6912c4c64>:0)
	UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object)

It seems to occur whenever I leave the editor, though I'm not exactly sure.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Avera9eJoe

[blackrack]

10 hours ago, TimKerbin said:

KSP: 1.10.1.2939 Windows 64bit

Problem: Massive frame-rate drops when moving from Map View to Ship View

Mods installed:

Audio Muffler Redux
Chatterer
DistantObject
KerboKatz (a little onscreen framerate monitor)
NavBallDockingAlignmentIndicatorCE
PlanetShine
RealPlume
RealPlume-Stock
SmokeScreen
Squad
TextureReplacer
TweakScale

(Most mods were carried over from 1.9.1 without a problem.)

Reproduction steps:

I installed Scatterer, tried moving from Map View to Ship View (size of vessel doesn't matter, the issue still occurs), and frame-rate drops from 30-60fps to 3fps. The entire game, UI, menus, drops to 3 fps. Sometimes it recovers, but mostly it doesn't and I have no option but to CTRL-ALT-DEL and end it in Task Manager. When I remove the Scatterer folder, I am no longer able to reproduce this issue, everything behaves as it should. KSP Debug menu and the ksp log file show nothing abnormal during frame-rate drop (the Performance window shows the frame-rate drop). I tried using the default Scatterer folder/settings, and my custom folder/settings. The results were the same. I tried removing other mods to see if they were to blame but I haven't had this problem until I installed the 0.0621b update.

Can you test it without your other mods?

8 hours ago, Avera9eJoe said:

Heyo, I'm getting a NullRef from Scatterer/Spectra and was curious if you know what the cause is/if there is anything I can do to fix-

[EXC 15:52:53.903] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	scatterer.SkyNode.cleanupScaledScatteringMaterial () (at <c242f3d90315428492d244d6912c4c64>:0)
	scatterer.SkyNode.Cleanup () (at <c242f3d90315428492d244d6912c4c64>:0)
	scatterer.ProlandManager.OnDestroy () (at <c242f3d90315428492d244d6912c4c64>:0)
	scatterer.ScattererCelestialBodiesManager.UpdateProlandManagers () (at <c242f3d90315428492d244d6912c4c64>:0)
	scatterer.ScattererCelestialBodiesManager.Update () (at <c242f3d90315428492d244d6912c4c64>:0)
	scatterer.Scatterer.Update () (at <c242f3d90315428492d244d6912c4c64>:0)
	UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object)

It seems to occur whenever I leave the editor, though I'm not exactly sure.

I've seen this error reported but didn't manage to reproduce it, if I install just spectra will this appear?

[HafCoJoe]

2 hours ago, blackrack said:

Can you test it without your other mods?

I've seen this error reported but didn't manage to reproduce it, if I install just spectra will this appear?

I can't say for sure, but it did happen and I have Spectra installed. The bug seems to be fairly harmless and I can't see any effect of it. If I notice a reoccurring thing causing it I'll let you know. It seems to happen randomly when I leave an editor.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Avera9eJoe

[steve_v]

So, uh, about that performance thing...

I mean, I get that improved graphics costing frames bit and all... But ~60FPS? Seriously? With no change in GPU load? Something fishy is going on here...

No, I haven't changed any settings, that's a clean (1.10.1)  install with only scatterer (v0.0621) and it's default config.

Log.

Thoughts?

Edited August 8, 2020 by steve_v

[blackrack]

2 hours ago, steve_v said:

I mean, I get that improved graphics costing frames bit and all... But ~60FPS? Seriously? With no change in GPU load? Something fishy is going on here...

What's fishy is that you're using OpenGL

Edited: I see no problems with your log or install or anything, just that the performance on OpenGL has always been garbage (can't remember the exact reason, but it was something like having no separate render thread on OpenGL). You have a more than decent machine, but I get double the framerates on a slower CPU in Directx 11.

Edited August 8, 2020 by blackrack

[steve_v]

3 minutes ago, blackrack said:

What's fishy is that you're using OpenGL

And what exactly would you suggest I use then, considering that DirectX is Windows-only and Vulkan is not available in KSP?
A great many other things, including KSP itself and scatterer up until a few releases ago, work just swimmingly with OpenGL. Something has clearly changed, and I'm pretty sure it's not the graphics API on my system.

[blackrack]

5 minutes ago, steve_v said:

And what exactly would you suggest I use then, considering that DirectX is Windows-only and Vulkan is not available in KSP?
A great many other things, including KSP itself and scatterer up until a few releases ago, work just swimmingly with OpenGL. Something has clearly changed, and I'm pretty sure it's not the graphics API on my system.

I actually suggest you use Windows and DirectX. Other than that, if you're serious about changes, make comparative benchmarks with older versions of scatterer and post the results here. I have no idea which version you're coming from or what kind of performance you used to get.

Edited August 8, 2020 by blackrack

[steve_v]

1 hour ago, blackrack said:

I actually suggest you use Windows and DirectX.

Wait, you're serious? I haven't used Windows for nearly 20 years, I'm not about to now.

 

1 hour ago, blackrack said:

make comparative benchmarks with older versions of scatterer and post the results here.

Okay then. All clean installs, settings.cfg copied, same test scene & craft, averaged & rounded to nearest 5FPS:
 
KSP 1.8.1 stock: 140FPS
KSP 1.8.1 + scatterer (0.0550-0.0621): 95FPS
KSP 1.9.1 stock: 140FPS
KSP 1.9.1 + scatterer (0.0550-0.0621): 95FPS
KSP 1.10.1 stock: 130FPS
KSP 1.10.1 + scatterer (0.0550-0.0621): 65FPS

Conclusion:
A performance regression occurred somewhere in the  KSP 1.9.1-1.10.1 window. This is compounded (and not in a small way) by scatterer, regardless of scatterer version (or as far as 0.0550 - 0.0621 anyway).

This is frankly not at all what I expected, and pretty much exonerates you as far as the cause of the regression. It's most likely Squads fault, somebody must have got all s/degraded/improved/g on the patch notes again.
Nevertheless it makes scatterer nearly unusable on OpenGL, particularly in combination with other graphically intensive mods such as EVE. Given that a great many other applications perform just as well rendering with OpenGL as DirectX, I find this somewhat baffling - particularly as it does not appear to be using the full potential of the GPU.

Regressions aside, and as cool as the mod is, a 50-60FPS performance tax for what scatter brings isn't a real great trade IMO.

As for what version I was coming from, that would be 1.8.1 + 0.550. So the performance I was expecting was in the 90-100FPS range. That I can just about live with. 60 on the runway with a 15-part craft is a bit underwhelming to say the least.

Ed. (scrolled up): That would indeed make sense, if KSP/Unity is doing all the render calls on the main thread it could well be CPU bound... Though why anyone would write a game engine that way in this day and age is beyond me. We did that kind of stuff in the '90s when GPUs were slow and polys few, but now? Why Unity, WHY?

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by steve_v

[blackrack]

37 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Wait, you're serious? I haven't used Windows for nearly 20 years, I'm not about to now.

As much as I love linux for work, this is why I avoid anyone who identifies themselves by their linux usage.

Edited August 8, 2020 by blackrack

[steve_v]

8 minutes ago, blackrack said:

this is why I avoid anyone who identifies themselves by their linux usage

I could say the same about people who expect me to set aside a few hundred gig of SSD and install a (pirated, 'cause I 'm sure not going to buy it) operating system I haven't used for decades, absent all the other software I use regularly, just for a single game. But that would lead to pointless arguments, now wouldn't it.

When someone asks me a windows-centric question, I either do my best or shut my mouth. I don't say "Just use GNU/Linux", because that's not a reasonable answer. I kinda expect similar treatment TBH.

Edited August 8, 2020 by steve_v

[blackrack]

20 minutes ago, steve_v said:

I could say the same about people who expect me to set aside a few hundred gig of SSD and install a (pirated, 'cause I 'm sure not going to buy it) operating system I haven't used for decades, absent all the other software I use regularly, just for a single game. But that would lead to pointless arguments, now wouldn't it.

When someone asks me a windows-centric question, I either do my best or shut my mouth. I don't say "Just use GNU/Linux", because that's not a reasonable answer. I kinda expect similar treatment TBH.

It is still the only way to get decent performance in KSP, and most games for that matter. Anyway, you have your solutions...

[steve_v]

4 minutes ago, blackrack said:

most games

Most games that run on GNU/Linux (or MacOS for that matter) natively perform just fine. Using OpenGL.
A couple of very recent games I could mention run better on GNU/Linux than they do on Windows, using Vulkan.
A large percentage of non-native games games these days run at almost windows-native framerates using DXVK.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say KSP is the only game I've ever played which suffers from this problem... And it only becomes a problem when scatterer is installed. Go figure.

 

9 minutes ago, blackrack said:

you have your solutions

Indeed.
1) Don't try to run scatterer on OpenGL, it tanks performance.
2) Don't bother asking blackrack why, he doesn't know and doesn't care.

[blackrack]

36 minutes ago, steve_v said:

2) Don't bother asking blackrack why, he doesn't know and doesn't care

Yes, I don't care. scatterer is open-source, if you care go ahead and fix it

[KermitKiller]

For me, Scatterer has an issue where it doesn't work and causes the oceans to disappear. I have several other mods installed like Environmental Visual Enhancements but I am sure Scatterer is the cause of this. I am playing in 1.10.1 on Windows 10. If someone could help, that would be amazing. Thank you!

[Athur Dent]

Hey guys, does anybody know what value in a scatterer config file could cause the night sky of a planet to have a bright rim like this?

I'm playing around with scatterer configs and I do not seem to find the value that turns this off, and lets the dark side of this planet be realistically black.

Thanks for any hints.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Athur Dent

[JWag]

I'm seeing a bunch of NREs also. I haven't found a way to reproduce it yet. Everything works great for a while, until suddenly the night side of any body becomes completely black except for the skybox and whatever part is highlighted. The log shows a bunch of NREs.

Here's my modlist, log, and a copy of the save from today's incident: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y03gegllBMr_k3TWN5R3ZvbC59-SvInw/view?usp=sharing

Add mods installed with CKAN, though I temporarily relaxed the version limiting so that I could get Kerbal Alarm Clock installed. I don't believe I've changed any Scatterer configurations; I've been running with it as-installed via CKAN.

Have not tried yet without other mods installed, but that's mostly because I have no way of knowing when/if the NRE spam or Black Night problems will happen and I've got enough going on that playing without KAC is tough.

[AnFa]

KSP: 1.10 Windows 64bit

Problem: Unlit side of kerbin is black

Mods installed:

Scatterer 0.0621b

EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements 1.8.0.2

KSPRC 0.7 Prerelease 3

Texture Replacer 4.2.2

Spectra 1.4.0

KS3P - V6.1

Reproduction steps:

N/A

Log:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lyt0mflg9dg75i8/Player.log?dl=0

The unlit side of every planet and moon looks like this, a black hole. What do I do?

Edited August 10, 2020 by AnFa

[Drew Kerman]

18 hours ago, Athur Dent said:

I'm playing around with scatterer configs and I do not seem to find the value that turns this off, and lets the dark side of this planet be realistically black.

That's legit. google search "Pluto haze"

[R-T-B]

On 8/8/2020 at 8:34 AM, steve_v said:

And what exactly would you suggest I use then, considering that DirectX is Windows-only and Vulkan is not available in KSP?
A great many other things, including KSP itself and scatterer up until a few releases ago, work just swimmingly with OpenGL. Something has clearly changed, and I'm pretty sure it's not the graphics API on my system.

I would actually advise giving dxvk and wine a try.  It performs...  pretty damn well with it's DX11 layer.  Provided NVIDIAs vulkan driver is ok (it works by translating DX11 calls to vulkan ones).

PM me if you need help with that.  The results are surprisingly good.

On 8/8/2020 at 11:27 AM, steve_v said:

Indeed.

1) Don't try to run scatterer on OpenGL, it tanks performance.
2) Don't bother asking blackrack why, he doesn't know and doesn't care.

While I don't agree with @blackrack's linux/OpenGL general dislike, I do agree that there's not much he can do to fix it.  The OpenGL implementation in Kerbal at the moment has been badly neglected in the stock game.  There isn't much modders can do about that.  Ie, it runs like crap on Windows, too.  The only driver configuration that seems to run KSP OpenGL mode acceptably is AMD's full open source stack, and even it is questionable and riding on the advancements of open source rather than the cards themselves.

 

For now, use dxvk, extract 90% of native performance, and blame squad.

Edited August 11, 2020 by R-T-B