[WIP][1.9.x-1.12.x] Scatterer-atmospheric scattering (0.0838 - 14/08/2022) Scattering improvements, in-game atmo generation and multi-sun support

[blackrack]

1 hour ago, Zelda said:

I see, thanks so much for the reply! I was fooled by the UI, since it highlights "Integrated" but the text above says "no preset - custom settings." I haven't messed with the settings. So maybe it's not defaulting to integrated, but as I mentioned I get weird shadows unless I choose another preset before the flight scene. I did have the latest Astronomer's Visual Pack installed, but removing that didn't fix the issue. The only other visual mod I have is EVE. I will try reinstalling scatterer to see if that lets it default to one of the other presets.

Here is the preset UI and all the settings pages I am seeing: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmAxSBcQL19WnrZ_GbwSB4b_rYREUQ

Edit: Just reinstalled and now defaults to Low.  Sorry for not trying that first but I really appreciate the pointer!

Indeed you were using custom settings, it's just that the preset selector defaults to the first entry if nothing is selected or a preset matching the settings is not found. It should save your settings so if you switch to High for example, the next time you restart the game it won't redefault to low.

1 hour ago, KawaiiLucy said:

KSP: 1.11.1 Windows 64bit

Problem: Overlapping Frames , game still running in background

Mods installed:

Scatterer 0.0770

Eve-Redux

Rescale 2.5x

Galaxies Unbound

Restock

OPM +visuals

Reproduction steps:

was unable to reproduce again, but: set settings to integrated. Bug appeared during reentry from a mission to minmus, and during reentry from mission to duna

settings on medium get rid of the problem.

Note

Running ksp on laptop with graphics card

So this happens with Integrated preset only? (at least from what you saw in your tests)

[Zelda]

2 hours ago, blackrack said:

Indeed you were using custom settings, it's just that the preset selector defaults to the first entry if nothing is selected or a preset matching the settings is not found. It should save your settings so if you switch to High for example, the next time you restart the game it won't redefault to low.

Thanks! I don't remember changing any settings but I have been exhausted from working a ton, so maybe I did without remembering / realizing. Anyway, thank you for the responses, I really appreciate it.

[Araym]

Slight interaction issue between the latest Scatterer (v.0.770) and (i think) Waterfall shaders:

I was testing my latest released modified "IXS warsphip for Blueshift", that alike the parent mod "Blueshift" by @Angel-125 make heavily use of Waterfall to create the warp distorsion, and once added scatterer (just to testing purpose), I got these weird effects, when the "warp field" is not active.

Basically it seems that the models used for "shape" the effects are not really "transparent" to Scatterer's graphic effects.

Very evident in this image how, basically, it reverts all the lightning and surface modification to stock situation: the sea back to its standard stock dullness, compared to the different one visible "outside" the bubble.

Also visible (from "inside" the bubble created using Waterfll) how all the sky effects are basically deleted, and, if paying attention, how also are noticeable the shapes (from the ship) that supports the "warping plumes" when they are active.

This also happens in space, for any Scatterer related effects:
A very zoomed out view (in which are very noriceable the Sun light halo and lens flares)...

... became very "dull" from the "inside" of the bubble itself.

(This issue is also been communicated to Waterfall author, not sure about who has the better chances to resolve it)

[dok_377]

@blackrack 
Something interesting is happening with the game's reflection shader and scatterer. When the reflection is on, the dark side of Kerbin lights up, as if it was receiving the reflected light from the Mun. Initially i thought it was the planetshineSources line for Kerbin in the planetsList.cfg file, but when I commented that part out (even removed it completely) nothing changed. Then I deleted all the mods and checked if it still happened with only scatterer, and it did.  Looks like it only happens with Kerbin and only from the surface of the Mun. Didn't have this happen with other bodies, but it might also be present there, I'm not sure. 

Spoiler

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by dok_377

[blackrack]

11 hours ago, dok_377 said:

@blackrack 
Something interesting is happening with the game's reflection shader and scatterer. When the reflection is on, the dark side of Kerbin lights up, as if it was receiving the reflected light from the Mun. Initially i thought it was the planetshineSources line for Kerbin in the planetsList.cfg file, but when I commented that part out (even removed it completely) nothing changed. Then I deleted all the mods and checked if it still happened with only scatterer, and it did.  Looks like it only happens with Kerbin and only from the surface of the Mun. Didn't have this happen with other bodies, but it might also be present there, I'm not sure. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

This happens with stock too, I tested it without scatterer and always got the word thing in map view on the back of the planet. My guess is that they're using a surface shader for Kerbin but didn't disable reflection probes.

17 hours ago, Araym said:

Slight interaction issue between the latest Scatterer (v.0.770) and (i think) Waterfall shaders:

I was testing my latest released modified "IXS warsphip for Blueshift", that alike the parent mod "Blueshift" by @Angel-125 make heavily use of Waterfall to create the warp distorsion, and once added scatterer (just to testing purpose), I got these weird effects, when the "warp field" is not active.

Basically it seems that the models used for "shape" the effects are not really "transparent" to Scatterer's graphic effects.

Very evident in this image how, basically, it reverts all the lightning and surface modification to stock situation: the sea back to its standard stock dullness, compared to the different one visible "outside" the bubble.

Also visible (from "inside" the bubble created using Waterfll) how all the sky effects are basically deleted, and, if paying attention, how also are noticeable the shapes (from the ship) that supports the "warping plumes" when they are active.

This also happens in space, for any Scatterer related effects:
A very zoomed out view (in which are very noriceable the Sun light halo and lens flares)...

... became very "dull" from the "inside" of the bubble itse

(This issue is also been communicated to Waterfall author, not sure about who has the better chances to resolve it)

That's weird, have you checked if this happens in scatterer 0.0723? At least with the ocean.

[dok_377]

26 minutes ago, blackrack said:

This happens with stock too

Interesting. I never saw that in stock. For me this only happens with scatterer. The old version has that too, I just checked.

[Araym]

2 hours ago, blackrack said:

That's weird, have you checked if this happens in scatterer 0.0723? At least with the ocean.

YES, sir: at least on my end, even using 0.0723 I ended with the same result.

My "graphic" mods are:

• EVE (only the base mod, no "BoulderCo" configs, as needed for some other as functional dependency)
• Pood's OPM VO (... for upgraded OPM visuals)
• SVT (the latest one just for the terrain visual from spaces: the actual terrain once on planets is stock)
• Spectra (for clouds and atmospheric effects for the stock planets)
• Scatterer (not only for "general purpose", but also as needed dependency of Spectra)

At first I tought was related to the sunflare syntax changes (Spectra ha a little issue for it, but that was addressed discussing it in its own thread): infact in the process to resolve that issue, I "downgraded" for testing purposes to 0.0723 and the result was the same.
(At least with both releases working at "max effect" - the equivalent of "Very High" setting in 0.0770: dunno if the problem could be mitigated removing some of Scatterer options)

Removing Scatterer (any) does resolve it... but obviously it is just because there is not any more a lot/none of atmospheric and water effects effect to "delete". (Before using Spectra/Scatterer, I was using "Better Looking Ocean" to tweak just the water surfaces, and that does not have issues with Waterfall)
Even if I noticed that, slightly, even if they became "almost totally transparent", paying attention is still possible to notice the boundaries of Waterfall models, as they still have some different behaviours than the pure "air" in a more stock-ish atmosphere (mostly, the shadows are sligthly different).

(My 2 cents: I think is more of a Waterfall shader interaction problem, with Scatterer just ending to be and "offended part", rather than the original cause: in fact I firstly addressed this issue with the Waterfall team, as even without scatterer their model are not totally "invisible" as they should. I just did the same for you here mostly for knowledge)

... even if...
Could it be eventually a problem derived by "Texture Unlimited"? Because some part mods that have "transparent parts" also showed the "weird" ability to be transpared but capable to "delete" a lot of graphic effects,.
I'll update about it once I'd run some experiments.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Araym

[KawaiiLucy]

On 5/27/2021 at 6:11 PM, blackrack said:

So this happens with Integrated preset only? (at least from what you saw in your tests)

Yes - but as mentioned, even when trying again after a clean install I couldn't reproduce it.

[Araym]

@blackrack
UPDATE:

graphic mod list as above in my previous message, but with Texture Unlimited removed (as I tought it could "weirdly interact" with some actual models):

I tested with some other "transparent parts" that are showing weird behaviours:

this involve, for example, "Open Cockpit" one and "Benjee10's Historical Kerbal Suits"

Open Cockpit comes with some trasparent windshield that, also, show the ability to "cancel" something:
in this case, Benjee10's suits come with a custom helmet that, watched thru a "transparent surface", has the custom visor disappear. (And this happened even before adding Scatterer, in previous experiences of mine)
 

In the same testing without Texture Unlimited (I tought that, interacting with some properties of models and parts, could actually be involved) the  warp ships with Waterfall of my above posts show the same behaviours, so I avoid to repost similar pictures, but my ideas is that "something" related to how KSP handle "transparency" (at least in 1.11.2 that I'm using) is globally creating some weird behaviours (I cannot be more of help, because I do not really know how KSP works behind the scenes: I can just point out some final effects as end user).

[SirGreyliege]

Hello and thanks for reading. Just downloaded AVP, EVE Redux, and Scatterer. I've been fiddling around with settings and configs within KSP, but Scatterer appears to not register any change at all.

If this has already been addressed, sorry for the redundancy. But I haven't found anything on it yet.

The blue preset icon only appears on the toolbar when I am at KSC, and any change made with the advanced menu doesn't register at all.

I hope there's some answer to this. Thanks again!

[blackrack]

4 hours ago, SirGreyliege said:

Hello and thanks for reading. Just downloaded AVP, EVE Redux, and Scatterer. I've been fiddling around with settings and configs within KSP, but Scatterer appears to not register any change at all.

If this has already been addressed, sorry for the redundancy. But I haven't found anything on it yet.

The blue preset icon only appears on the toolbar when I am at KSC, and any change made with the advanced menu doesn't register at all.

I hope there's some answer to this. Thanks again!

AVP overrides the settings.  You can just go in AVP folder and look for the .cfg patch that overrides the scatterer config and delete it.

23 hours ago, Araym said:

YES, sir: at least on my end, even using 0.0723 I ended with the same result.

My "graphic" mods are:

• EVE (only the base mod, no "BoulderCo" configs, as needed for some other as functional dependency)
• Pood's OPM VO (... for upgraded OPM visuals)
• SVT (the latest one just for the terrain visual from spaces: the actual terrain once on planets is stock)
• Spectra (for clouds and atmospheric effects for the stock planets)
• Scatterer (not only for "general purpose", but also as needed dependency of Spectra)

At first I tought was related to the sunflare syntax changes (Spectra ha a little issue for it, but that was addressed discussing it in its own thread): infact in the process to resolve that issue, I "downgraded" for testing purposes to 0.0723 and the result was the same.
(At least with both releases working at "max effect" - the equivalent of "Very High" setting in 0.0770: dunno if the problem could be mitigated removing some of Scatterer options)

Removing Scatterer (any) does resolve it... but obviously it is just because there is not any more a lot/none of atmospheric and water effects effect to "delete". (Before using Spectra/Scatterer, I was using "Better Looking Ocean" to tweak just the water surfaces, and that does not have issues with Waterfall)
Even if I noticed that, slightly, even if they became "almost totally transparent", paying attention is still possible to notice the boundaries of Waterfall models, as they still have some different behaviours than the pure "air" in a more stock-ish atmosphere (mostly, the shadows are sligthly different).

(My 2 cents: I think is more of a Waterfall shader interaction problem, with Scatterer just ending to be and "offended part", rather than the original cause: in fact I firstly addressed this issue with the Waterfall team, as even without scatterer their model are not totally "invisible" as they should. I just did the same for you here mostly for knowledge)

... even if...
Could it be eventually a problem derived by "Texture Unlimited"? Because some part mods that have "transparent parts" also showed the "weird" ability to be transpared but capable to "delete" a lot of graphic effects,.
I'll update about it once I'd run some experiments.

These are probably other conflicting cases that are unrelated. I assume this doesn't happen with the regular waterfall plumes right? Does this one particular waterfall effect use a custom shader or something?

[Naeth Kerman]

KSP: 1.11.2 Windows 64bit

Problem: Water's surface clumped into a large cube over the KSC

Mods installed:

Scatterer 0.0770

Reproduction steps:

Load a save, once you get in, the camera should be placed inside the cube.

Note:

You can see the abomination at the launchpad and runway. As I launched a rocket from the launchpad, it looks really weird as you get higher.

The water is still where it is supposed to be, but it's invisible

Edited May 29, 2021 by Naeth Kerman

[Kerdel]

4 hours ago, SirGreyliege said:

Hello and thanks for reading. Just downloaded AVP, EVE Redux, and Scatterer. I've been fiddling around with settings and configs within KSP, but Scatterer appears to not register any change at all.

If this has already been addressed, sorry for the redundancy. But I haven't found anything on it yet.

The blue preset icon only appears on the toolbar when I am at KSC, and any change made with the advanced menu doesn't register at all.

I hope there's some answer to this. Thanks again!

Just like Blackrack mentioned, but for me it was also fixed with the latest AVP update 4.11.  The author removed the Scatterer config in AVP because of this

[Araym]

1 hour ago, blackrack said:

These are probably other conflicting cases that are unrelated. I assume this doesn't happen with the regular waterfall plumes right? Does this one particular waterfall effect use a custom shader or something?

I do not really know the "technicalities" of Waterfall, but for the rocket plumes everything iss working.

For the effects involved in my screenshot, the "cylindrical" one used as base for the engines's plumes should come directly from Waterfall, but the bigger "warpfield" around the ship came from @Angel-125's "Blueshift" (the warp mod itself).

From what I'm learning by using them, they should be, basically, some transparent shapes that can be linked to display on their surfaces, based on the config used, the various graphic "effects".
Waterfall has, internally, its own shader that then interact in the way these effects are displayed: my (very wild... ) guess is that a bit of strangeness in how KSP handle "transparencies" (see the above post about the windshields from "Open Cockpit" as example) mixed with Waterfall's shaders, make those "shapes" used as base not so trasparent as they should to some Scatterer effects.

I tried to figure which one from Scatterer could be, but the best I achieved is that using the "Integrated" pre-set, with almost everything turned off, they return to be "transparent", but even just switching to "Very Low", they already start to be "bugged".

[Araym]

EDIT:

I made some extra experiments.

I left basically every option turned on (with ocean using 256 furier grid, to push everything to the limit... the only options I left turned off, but it was the same as above, are "Disable scaled space ambient light" and oceans's "Secondary lights") but just switched from "depth buffer mode" to "projector mode".
This improved the situation a bit:

The shaped models used for the warp effects returns to be "someway" transparent (even if shadows are casted on them alike they were solid: a behaviour that is someway present also in "stock" enviroment, even if less evident because the shadows are less defined - so it is probably relate to Waterfall shaders), with just little graphic artefacts (slightly noticeable in the full zoomed out image) rather than be totally "black".

Still no joy for the sun flares: they are present (as shown by the first picture, very zoomed out), but from inside the "warp bubble" they are basically erased.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Araym

[blackrack]

On 5/27/2021 at 4:18 PM, KawaiiLucy said:

KSP: 1.11.1 Windows 64bit

Problem: Overlapping Frames , game still running in background

Mods installed:

Scatterer 0.0770

Eve-Redux

Rescale 2.5x

Galaxies Unbound

Restock

OPM +visuals

Reproduction steps:

was unable to reproduce again, but: set settings to integrated. Bug appeared during reentry from a mission to minmus, and during reentry from mission to duna

settings on medium get rid of the problem.

Note

Running ksp on laptop with graphics card

Couldn't reproduce this at all, with either integrated or medium presets.

14 hours ago, Naeth Kerman said:

KSP: 1.11.2 Windows 64bit

Problem: Water's surface clumped into a large cube over the KSC

Mods installed:

Scatterer 0.0770

Reproduction steps:

Load a save, once you get in, the camera should be placed inside the cube.

Note:

You can see the abomination at the launchpad and runway. As I launched a rocket from the launchpad, it looks really weird as you get higher.

The water is still where it is supposed to be, but it's invisible

Loaded a save and nothing happened. Screenshots + better reproduction steps?

On 5/24/2021 at 9:47 PM, Kerdel said:

Hi!

I have encountered a strange visual bug since i updated from 723 to 770, I also added USI Life support mods but since they don't change anything to visuals except for parts so I post it here.

https://imgur.com/v2j4bgs

It looks like to me the atmosphere didn't load in or something went wrong? 

Had this for several times now, always when loading into Kerbal space center.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HDNGbqmTkH37tvmWexOsQTvA8ZmotFSt/view?usp=sharing         Player.log file, if i miss anything to figure this one let me know please!

Can you try without USI Life support mods and see if it goes away? I might test them to see if this happens but for now I don't get this issue. Oh and if you haven't already, test with the .dll linked here:
https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/103963-wip19x-110x-111x-scatterer-atmospheric-scattering-00770-17052021/&do=findComment&comment=3976312

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by blackrack

[Kerdel]

26 minutes ago, blackrack said:

Can you try without USI Life support mods and see if it goes away? I might test them to see if this happens but for now I don't get this issue. Oh and if you haven't already, test with the .dll linked here:
https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/103963-wip19x-110x-111x-scatterer-atmospheric-scattering-00770-17052021/&do=findComment&comment=3976312

 

Hi!

In the meantime I restarted my save and reinstalled everything with a clean game (not updating from 0723 to 0770 but installing 0770 in the new modded game). 

modlist is https://imgur.com/a/qrQHTMn (using Ckan)

All i changed was removing BoulderCo with AVP 8k (different EVE configs and removed citylight.dll)  and a clean install not updating.

I did not encounter the bug yet, if I will again then i'll remove USI to see if that fixes it or use the new .dll

[blackrack]

@Araym All working correctly here

I installed the latest versions of all the dependencies and that's it. Are you on the latest waterfall?

[Araym]

1 hour ago, blackrack said:

@Araym All working correctly here

I installed the latest versions of all the dependencies and that's it. Are you on the latest waterfall?

Waterfall is indeed the latest one (0.6.3)

I'll run a whole new re-check in all the graphic mods and dependencies I'm using, then...

[blackrack]

8 minutes ago, Araym said:

Waterfall is indeed the latest one (0.6.3)

I'll run a whole new re-check in all the graphic mods and dependencies I'm using, then...

Are you using EVE-redux btw?

[Araym]

2 minutes ago, blackrack said:

Are you using EVE-redux btw?

Yes, sir.

[Araym]

7 hours ago, blackrack said:

@Araym All working correctly here

I installed the latest versions of all the dependencies and that's it. Are you on the latest waterfall?

I run a comprehensive check on all my mods, to be sure that in the main install everything is updated (waiting patiently the next 30 minutes or so, to let the half a tons of mods load)...

Sidenote: in a very barebone modded instal (the "testing one" I was using for modding and tweaking) trying to follow your advice to update, not only I still had the , but suddenly Spectra stopped working (even if it's the very same version I was using previously)... I do not know anymore what is happening with my KSP.......

 

[Naeth Kerman]

11 hours ago, blackrack said:

Loaded a save and nothing happened. Screenshots + better reproduction steps?

I "fixed" it by using a earlier version of scatterer (0.0723), I guess KSP didn't like the 0.0770 version of scatterer

And, I have no idea how to add screenshots

Edited May 30, 2021 by Naeth Kerman

[SirGreyliege]

On 5/29/2021 at 12:13 PM, Kerdel said:

Just like Blackrack mentioned, but for me it was also fixed with the latest AVP update 4.11.  The author removed the Scatterer config in AVP because of this

I checked my version number and I'm still getting the issues. I went in and looked but I'm not sure which cfg to delete. There is an overall AVP_Scatterer cfg and then there is one specific to Kerbin.

[SirGreyliege]

On 5/29/2021 at 11:37 AM, blackrack said:

AVP overrides the settings.  You can just go in AVP folder and look for the .cfg patch that overrides the scatterer config and delete it.

I've gone in and deleted both scatterer configs and I'm still unable to change any settings. The advanced menu still reports that there is a Module Manager cfg.

I've been uninstalling and reinstalling all three graphics mods to see if maybe some update needs to get through.

Hope you can help and thanks for reading.