[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[chootrain]

Dont they send up dry food? thats why its so light. Then they rehydrate the food with the recycled water on the ISS. The USI supplies include the water weight, so 1 kg of food actually makes sense.

However, I actually found the consumption rate too low to have an impact on the design of my rockets. The smallest container that has 100 units is more than enough for most missions (even outside of the kerbin system).

What I had to do is actually reduce all container sizes by 10x (10, 50, 450, 1.5k instead of 100, 500, 4.5k, 15k). I've been having a lot of fun with that configuration in my career play through.

Same with the USI Kontainers mod (reduced the maximum capacities by 10x).

This re-balancing is probably not going to be for everyone, but maybe it can be scaled by the difficulty setting the player chooses for their career mode? (easier said than done, I know :S)

[Superfluous J]

The smallest container that has 100 units is more than enough for most missions (even outside of the kerbin system).

How can that be, when it takes more than 100 days to reach the nearest planet (Unless you're using Interstellar-style engines) so even one-Kerbal ships will run out of food before even reaching their destination, little alone waiting for the return window and coming home?

[RoverDude]

On my way home I had an interesting idea for this mod. It stemmed from the thought that these are trained Kerbonauts, and it doesn't make any sense for them to just quit working and sit there twiddling their thumbs when they run out of food, to the point that they won't even deploy parachutes to save themselves when plunging through the atmosphere. So I thought up a different explanation:

That takes care of the explanation for how the mod works, and opens up some other interesting possibilities.

In my current save, I have a Kerbal who ran out of food on their way back from Minmus, and are just swinging in a big orbit around Kerbin. It was very annoying, because I was unable to do anything to rescue them until I unlocked the Klaw, as the craft did not have a docking port, and I was unable to EVA the Kerbal to move to a rescue vessel. Giving the ability to wake a Kerbal for an hour would offer solutions for rescue, as I could have either woken them up and EVA'd them to a rescue craft full of food, or woken them as they approached Kerbin and landed them. I'm not sure how possible any of this would be, but please let me know what you think!

tbh I'm pretty happy with the existing mechanic. Allowing them to be revived at will (even for an hour) completely removes the need for life support. The fact that you got a Kerbal stuck in orbit and had to (eventually) mount a rescue pretty much shows the mod working as intended

Dont they send up dry food? thats why its so light. Then they rehydrate the food with the recycled water on the ISS. The USI supplies include the water weight, so 1 kg of food actually makes sense.

However, I actually found the consumption rate too low to have an impact on the design of my rockets. The smallest container that has 100 units is more than enough for most missions (even outside of the kerbin system).

What I had to do is actually reduce all container sizes by 10x (10, 50, 450, 1.5k instead of 100, 500, 4.5k, 15k). I've been having a lot of fun with that configuration in my career play through.

Same with the USI Kontainers mod (reduced the maximum capacities by 10x).

This re-balancing is probably not going to be for everyone, but maybe it can be scaled by the difficulty setting the player chooses for their career mode? (easier said than done, I know :S)

You must be playing with a very tiny Kerbol system then - 100 days is pretty slim pickings once you're outside of the Kerbin system

[Crusher48]

I still feel like there should be a way to dump supplies onto a ship where all the kerbals are quit. Right now I would think of using KIS with a small container to weld a small container to the ship so that it can be snacked on.

[SaintWacko]

tbh I'm pretty happy with the existing mechanic. Allowing them to be revived at will (even for an hour) completely removes the need for life support. The fact that you got a Kerbal stuck in orbit and had to (eventually) mount a rescue pretty much shows the mod working as intended

Yeah, I couldn't decide if that made it too unbalanced or not. I was trying to figure out a way to make it so a Kerbal could at least push the parachute button to save their own life.

[Superfluous J]

Yeah, I couldn't decide if that made it too unbalanced or not. I was trying to figure out a way to make it so a Kerbal could at least push the parachute button to save their own life.

So long as it's on Kerbin, when they get below 50km they'll wake up and be able to pull the chute, won't they?

[RoverDude]

I still feel like there should be a way to dump supplies onto a ship where all the kerbals are quit. Right now I would think of using KIS with a small container to weld a small container to the ship so that it can be snacked on.

That works, or if you use MKS, in the next version you just need to drop a supply container somewhere near your base.

Yeah, I couldn't decide if that made it too unbalanced or not. I was trying to figure out a way to make it so a Kerbal could at least push the parachute button to save their own life.

tbh unless you're diving right into an interplanetary aerobrake that lands with a capture and descent, you will be fine. And if in doubt, adjust the chute pressure and pop them before you run out of food. Done it more than once

So long as it's on Kerbin, when they get below 50km they'll wake up and be able to pull the chute, won't they?

Yup

[chootrain]

How can that be, when it takes more than 100 days to reach the nearest planet (Unless you're using Interstellar-style engines) so even one-Kerbal ships will run out of food before even reaching their destination, little alone waiting for the return window and coming home?

Sorry I was a little persumptious when I said most missions. I meant most missions in the kerbin system. The interplanetary mission i was referring to is moho (you're right its not the closest, but it is the fastest).

Also, the 100 units of supplies will last 100 kerbin days, but if you use the small greenhouse that converts mulch to supplies, you can essentially double the days the supplies last.

If you plan the mission just right, you can get there and back in just over 200 days (moho has a pretty short orbit period so this results in a lot more transfer windows) with around 16k dV (multiple ships to refuel during flight there).

I spent a long time planning this mission

I completely agree that going anywhere else takes such a long time and 10x less resources will make it difficult, but isn't that the most exciting part of the game? I would love to have a mission that would require me to resupply my kerbals with resources while they're on other planets simply because i cant take all the supplies with me on a single ship. Or having to stop by asteroids to mine the resources or etc.. Doing things the non-conventional way is what KSP is all about!

I dont know.. this was just a suggestion on my parts simply because it was alot more fun for me.

[RoverDude]

Sure, you're free to adjust your own configs any way you see fit. Me, I am comfortable with the amount of supplies Kerbals use, and the canisters have appropriate mass ratios and storage capacities, so I don't anticipate this changing.

[MarcAFK]

Dont they send up dry food? thats why its so light. Then they rehydrate the food with the recycled water on the ISS. The USI supplies include the water weight, so 1 kg of food actually makes sense.

The food they get is pretty close to US army MREs these days, all kinds of wet or dry food, some or most are rehydrated, but there's a lot of pretty normal stuff which would be terrible if they dehydrated it. You can't add water to beef jerky and get a steak The main restriction on space food is it needs to not create crumbs which can screw up the station

[billkerbinsky]

The food they get is pretty close to US army MREs these days, all kinds of wet or dry food, some or most are rehydrated, but there's a lot of pretty normal stuff which would be terrible if they dehydrated it. You can't add water to beef jerky and get a steak The main restriction on space food is it needs to not create crumbs which can screw up the station

You can see some of that in

- Chef Traci Des Jardins talks Chris Hadfield through making a burrito out of ingredients found on board the ISS. Very MRE-like pouches.

[MatterBeam]

Hello.

I'm getting ready to start distributing the files for my Project ROCK.

Am I allowed to bundle USI-Life Support with License with my download, or do you prefer I linked to this page as a dependency?

[RoverDude]

Either is fine, but my recommendation would be to have this as a dependency and have it downloaded separately due to the rate of change

[linuxgurugamer]

Hey Roverdude,

How "alpha" is this? I've compared all of the available life support mods (see my thread here), and have settled on this one. I'm not quite ready to install it, I'm still learning RemoteTech. But once I install this, I'll be very happy about having a complete game (only about 93 mods).

So I'm wondering if this is getting close to a mostly-finished state, or at least a stable state.

Thanks in advance

LGG

[Gristle]

When Kerbals are done consuming supplies, leftovers, scraps, and 'anything else' is either tossed overboard, or (if storage is available) tossed into a 'mulcher'.....Parts wise: Three inline storage compartments. No extra recyclers needed....

Do the Inline storage also act as the mulchers? Isn't there also a green house part?

[goldenpsp]

Hey Roverdude,

How "alpha" is this? I've compared all of the available life support mods (see my thread here), and have settled on this one. I'm not quite ready to install it, I'm still learning RemoteTech. But once I install this, I'll be very happy about having a complete game (only about 93 mods).

So I'm wondering if this is getting close to a mostly-finished state, or at least a stable state.

Thanks in advance

LGG

I'll be honest, I have a hard time considering this mod to be an "alpha" as it is more feature complete than some finished mods.

- - - Updated - - -

Do the Inline storage also act as the mulchers? Isn't there also a green house part?

No. the storage containers only hold supplies. To recycle you would use the Nom-O-Matic 5000, which is the greenhouse part. It has mulch storage and recycles back to supplies.

[MatterBeam]

Just to notify you, I have created a rebalanced, slightly extended version of USI Life Support for distribution alongside my mod.

I will properly attribute the work to you and provide a share-alike license, but I'm open to further requests on how to handle this.

PM me if necessary.

[vardicd]

So just ran into an interesting situation, had an orbital rescue, and I can't rescue the poor kerbal in orbit, because she's been without food for too long, and I don't have any of the claw, since the to be rescued kerbal doesn't have a docking port, can't use them, and I have KIS, but no parts yet that can be moved and attached to the part to feed the stranded kerbal, and no winches or attach parts for KIS, KAS. Had to edit the persistence file to move one NOMS unit from the rescue craft to the rescuer so they'd leave the pod. 'Jeb did a space walk and brought her food.'

Edit: and apparently that's not going to work, everytime I edit supplies into the craft, and even try to set her status as grouchy false, the game resets it back, as soon as I restart. Got to figure something else out.

Edit again: even removing the Lifesupport mod hasn't helped, even without the food resource she's locked in, says she's a tourist.

Edited May 29, 2015 by vardicd

[Superfluous J]

I didn't know it was possible to get an EVA'd tourist with this mod. I've got 2 guys standing on Duna waiting for a rescue ship because if they get in the pod, they'll become inactive. On the surface, they'll happily (well, grumpily) await the food ship.

[Admac]

Minor balance question;

I notice there is no easy way to get mulch on an OKS station. I can use a Kontainer or an inflatable, but it would be super cool if there were even 50 mulch storage in Kerbitat or Aeroponics to complete the supplies cycle. I've had two missions that had I got out of the SOI before noticing it, so I assume other people are having the same issue.

Another neat thing that seems like an emergent mechanic is the price spread between Mulch and Supplies. Shipping up 65000 mulch (value 6 kerbucks) turns into 59000ish Supplies (Value over 950,000 Kerbucks) in an orbital farm.

[goldenpsp]

Minor balance question;

I notice there is no easy way to get mulch on an OKS station. I can use a Kontainer or an inflatable, but it would be super cool if there were even 50 mulch storage in Kerbitat or Aeroponics to complete the supplies cycle. I've had two missions that had I got out of the SOI before noticing it, so I assume other people are having the same issue.

Another neat thing that seems like an emergent mechanic is the price spread between Mulch and Supplies. Shipping up 65000 mulch (value 6 kerbucks) turns into 59000ish Supplies (Value over 950,000 Kerbucks) in an orbital farm.

You are looking for the wrong part then. The pioneer module has mulch storage and is designed as an all in one, albeit less efficient solution. The other modules have never contained internal storage on purpose for balance reasons.

[MarcAFK]

Looking at the configs, the Pioneer has storage for organics only, perhaps there's a module manager config I missed which adds mulch when USI life support is loaded?

However, the resource spread is interesting, In my opinion you should be restricted from adding any mulch or depleted uranium when you launch a vessel, however you would still be able to add it to a Kontainer unless that was also disallowed.

It would be nice for balance, but what about the missed opportunities for creating a lunar transuranic waste dump or an orbital sewage treatment plant?

BTW, what's wrong with the USI life support greenhouse? You get 100 mulch storage real cheap, and available much earlier in the tech tree than the poineer modules are.

[Admac]

The greenhouses are fine on smaller vessels, but a full station with real Aeroponics at 90%, you lose efficiency with a 50% greenhouse. As far as mass, the small kontainers are 0.4 tons Vs 1.5 tons for the wee greenhouses.

My assumption is that the Pioneer module is pretty much obsolete on vessels that have a Kerbitat and Aeroponics, since adding a dedicated lab is much lighter.

My thought was that since the Aeroponics inflatables have storage for water substrate and Organics now, it would make sense for somewhere in the chain to hold mulch (Kerb+ Inflateables and Habi+ inflatables) without having to build any additional storage. I mean I am able remember now, but I had to launch 2 rescue missions over it and it is a bit of a pain.

For surface bases the landing sections have it. I suppose on massive stations you'd just be using the LS inflatable storage, but for the sake of not wrecking missions, I think having a tiny amount(50-1000) of mulch storage in the inflatable habs would be a positive change.

[goldenpsp]

Looking at the configs, the Pioneer has storage for organics only, perhaps there's a module manager config I missed which adds mulch when USI life support is loaded?

You are correct. I was getting confused with the parts. The MKS integrated base has mulch storage, which works well paired with the Pioneer module. IIRC Rover had mentioned expecting the use of an inflatable storage module with OKS stations hence the lack of integrated mulch storage for the OKS Pioneer module.

That actually caused me a little sadness realizing I liked the old pioneer storage module that we used to have which held LS and LS waste in a nice compact package, that fit well for orbital and land bases.

However, the resource spread is interesting, In my opinion you should be restricted from adding any mulch or depleted uranium when you launch a vessel, however you would still be able to add it to a Kontainer unless that was also disallowed.

I honestly don't see a big issue, although I'm not as .... retentive nitpicky as some. If Kerbals really want to pack waste product into their ships at launch let them. The conversion rate back to food/fuel isn't great so its a pretty inefficient way to try and bring some extra supplies.

It would be nice for balance, but what about the missed opportunities for creating a lunar transuranic waste dump or an orbital sewage treatment plant?

BTW, what's wrong with the USI life support greenhouse? You get 100 mulch storage real cheap, and available much earlier in the tech tree than the poineer modules are.

Again, maybe cheap but pretty inefficient. you can also just pack on a small food container which gives you 100 more supplies. so the 100 mulch is only saving you about 750 funds. In terms of "balance" I hardly would consider it an issue.

Edited May 30, 2015 by goldenpsp

[woot]

Is there a way to disable the kicking supplies out the airlock feature? I just lost all my supplies on a Jool mission even though I had full power and that giant USI generator providing more power than they'd ever need. It happened immediately upon jumping to the ship via Kerbal Alarm Clock, so I suppose there could be a compatibility issue, but I'd prefer to just remove that mechanic entirely.

My solar-powered ships consistently lose all power at maximum warp due to something funky going on with how solar input is calculated. I generally have to warp at the 2nd-fastest speed in those situations, which is annoying.