[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[BenCP]

Hullo Very much enjoying the concept of this mod.

I think i can assist with a poster or two above who's stores have emptied of supplies. I've noticed that when starved for a while the Kerbals will "crack the biscuit tin" as you put it. My kerbals will happily eat all 16,000 supplies instantly as they decide to raid the cupboard. This is with all my supply stores locked off. I was trying to kinda "cryo-sleep" the crew by with-holding food during long passages with no action or necessity for crew actions. What i've noticed is that if there are locked supplies onboard, and Kerbals decide to steal some, they will steal and eat ALL OF IT regardless if containers are locked. I'm frankly amazed they managed to pound 16,000 supplies in one sitting between 6 of them

 

Is there a text file i can modify to switch off the "raid the pantry" feature so i can live my cryo sleep dreams?

[goldenpsp]

11 minutes ago, BenCP said:

Hullo Very much enjoying the concept of this mod.

I think i can assist with a poster or two above who's stores have emptied of supplies. I've noticed that when starved for a while the Kerbals will "crack the biscuit tin" as you put it. My kerbals will happily eat all 16,000 supplies instantly as they decide to raid the cupboard. This is with all my supply stores locked off. I was trying to kinda "cryo-sleep" the crew by with-holding food during long passages with no action or necessity for crew actions. What i've noticed is that if there are locked supplies onboard, and Kerbals decide to steal some, they will steal and eat ALL OF IT regardless if containers are locked. I'm frankly amazed they managed to pound 16,000 supplies in one sitting between 6 of them

 

Is there a text file i can modify to switch off the "raid the pantry" feature so i can live my cryo sleep dreams?

There's a mod for that.

[RoverDude]

And the whole point of raiding the cabinets is to strongly discourage just 'locking' a tin and letting the little guys starve for a few years

 

So you are running headlong into one of the balance mechanics.

[BenCP]

Raiding the cabinet maybe, emptying supplies entirely regardless of storage size in one meal though?

This whole mod is my balance mechanic, since i downloaded it as part of an idea to add a "meaningful" cryo sleep feature to my game. I know i could just not use any life support mods and just pretend they're out of action while they travel, but this way gives me an actual storage stat to base their "awake time" on so it isn't just arbitrary.

Thanks GoldenPSP i that's exactly what i was looking for.

Roverdude, less than helpful, thanks tho.. Sorry if i poked your "baby" but we both just want to mod our game so it's how we want to play don't we?

[RoverDude]

Absolutely by design, and the rude attitude is completely unnecessary.  

And the key difference here:  I make stuff for me first.  And because I'm a nice guy, I share.  Your behavior is kinda like being invited to a free party, and acting like a jerk because the host provided free nachos instead of origami swans.  

Edited December 15, 2015 by RoverDude

[CorBlimey]

5 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Absolutely by design, and the rude attitude is completely unnecessary.  

And the key difference here:  I make stuff for me first.  And because I'm a nice guy, I share.  Your behavior is kinda like being invited to a free party, and acting like a jerk because the host provided free nachos instead of origami swans.  

your nachos are super tasty - long live the buffet! (and yes, wow, what a rude comment)

Edited December 15, 2015 by CorBlimey

[123nick]

hey, is the option for death/despawn implimented yet?

[Mynar Moonshadow]

16 minutes ago, 123nick said:

hey, is the option for death/despawn implimented yet?

Yes, for quite some time now.

edit the settings.cfg file

LIFE_SUPPORT_SETTINGS
{
	SupplyTime = 324000
	CausesDeath = false
	ECAmount = 0.01
	OrangeImmunity = true
	HomeworldAltitude = 50000
}

 

[WuphonsReach]

KIS+KAS helps with raid-all-the-pantry - Prior to docking with the stricken craft, EVA an engineer with a wrench/drill and one of the radial supply packs over to the starving kerbals and attach it to the hull.  Once the kerbals have stopped frothing at the mouth, you can dock and rescue them (or EVA them over to your ship).

(I like the rabid kerbal syndrome.)

It might be interesting if there was an adjustable variable that puts an upper bound on the raid-all-the-pantry amount, with a default of 0.5 year's worth of supplies per hungry kerbal.  So they'll still waste a lot of food, but not 6 years worth of food all at once if you dock a rescue craft with them (for those who don't use KIS/KAS).

 

[steve_v]

14 minutes ago, WuphonsReach said:

It might be interesting if there was an adjustable variable that puts an upper bound on the raid-all-the-pantry amount, with a default of 0.5 year's worth of supplies per hungry kerbal.

I could dig a "CausesGluttony" config option sitting next to the existing "CausesDeath", but personally I think loosing all the supplies is a fairly small price to pay for starving ones kerbonauts for two weeks.

OTOH, I turned the death clause on as soon as I found it - seems a mite too easy otherwise.

[RoverDude]

2 hours ago, WuphonsReach said:

KIS+KAS helps with raid-all-the-pantry - Prior to docking with the stricken craft, EVA an engineer with a wrench/drill and one of the radial supply packs over to the starving kerbals and attach it to the hull.  Once the kerbals have stopped frothing at the mouth, you can dock and rescue them (or EVA them over to your ship).

(I like the rabid kerbal syndrome.)

It might be interesting if there was an adjustable variable that puts an upper bound on the raid-all-the-pantry amount, with a default of 0.5 year's worth of supplies per hungry kerbal.  So they'll still waste a lot of food, but not 6 years worth of food all at once if you dock a rescue craft with them (for those who don't use KIS/KAS).

 

The whole point of raiding the cabinet is explicitly to prevent people from trying to game the system by 'locking' a life support container.  So there's no point in variability.

1 hour ago, steve_v said:

I could dig a "CausesGluttony" config option sitting next to the existing "CausesDeath", but personally I think loosing all the supplies is a fairly small price to pay for starving ones kerbonauts for two weeks.

OTOH, I turned the death clause on as soon as I found it - seems a mite too easy otherwise.

And it all goes to the first Kerbal.  Starving them is not a mechanic I want to encourage - the penalty is only there if you're trying to game the system.

[WuphonsReach]

https://github.com/BobPalmer/MKS/wiki/Life-Support#usi-ls-flow

Looking at the wiki, it's not entirely clear how many Kerbals the Nom-o-Matic 5000 and Nom-o-Matic 25000 can support in Agroponics mode, or Greenhouse mode, or both at the same time.  The first two bullet points don't seem to indicate which Nom-o-matic (I'm guessing first one is the 5k and second one is the 25k).

I ask, because I have (2) 25k NOMs, both with adequate power, four kerbals, and the mulch is building up as the NOMs say they are both running at 100% capacity.  I've tried Agroponics mode (with plenty of fertilizer) and both Greenhouse+Agroponics mode.

My guess is that the NOM 25k requires staffing (trained engineers? in a specific vessel?) for Agronomics mode?  But the flow chart doesn't seem to indicate staffing requirements for the NOM 25k.

[RoverDude]

You should generally pick one mode or the other tbh (this is something I plan on correcting in a new version)

[WuphonsReach]

Looks like Nom-o-Matic 25000 processes in "chunks" and not continuously? The mulch levels have dropped now after a few in-game days.

Is it still accurate that the Nom-o-matic 5000 can support (1) kerbal and the Nom-o-matic 25000 can support (10) kerbals?

[RoverDude]

Should be 1 and 4 not 1 and 10, but I'll take a peek

[Carepanda]

RoverDude, is it possible to add some inline containers for fertilizer and mulch? Probably just as switch to existing round supply tanks.

And please, think about inline versions of Nom-o-Matics. Current versions is nice looking, but very uncomfortable in case of placement. 

 

[vardicd]

23 hours ago, Carepanda said:

RoverDude, is it possible to add some inline containers for fertilizer and mulch? Probably just as switch to existing round supply tanks.

And please, think about inline versions of Nom-o-Matics. Current versions is nice looking, but very uncomfortable in case of placement. 

 

I find KIS/KAS helps. haul them up in a container, assemble in orbit or on the ground where ever you're going.

[goldenpsp]

On 12/16/2015 at 4:17 AM, steve_v said:

OTOH, I turned the death clause on as soon as I found it - seems a mite too easy otherwise.

Ya know, honestly I find no death more challenging.  If my crew dies, meh, hire new ones and move on.  But if they become stranded, now I have to plan a whole rescue mission.

[Kowgan]

@goldenpsp It's a good way to go as well. I personally think it's more challenging to try not to let those kerbals die, and if necessary, I have to plan a rescue/emergency supplies delivery mission to be launched asap. Not using Revert, and having to reach the targets in time adds to the challenge.

Anyway, either way is valid, as long as we're having fun with our games. Thanks RDude for making both ways possible.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Kowgan

[KerbMav]

Hmm ... you are right - dead Kerbals lower the hiring cost ...

So, if killing Kerbals would impact reputation more and hiring cost were bound to reputation rating ... ?

[CorBlimey]

On 20/12/2015 at 7:37 PM, Carepanda said:

RoverDude, is it possible to add some inline containers for fertilizer and mulch? Probably just as switch to existing round supply tanks.

And please, think about inline versions of Nom-o-Matics. Current versions is nice looking, but very uncomfortable in case of placement. 

 

For inline mulch you can use the tweakables on the Kontainer Tanks. Unfortunately Fertiliser is not available in the small 0.625m form factor tank so a 1.25m Kontainer is the smallest and (and waaayy overkill for fertiliser in volume and mass :D). You can also attach a radial cubic strut and a Mk-V Supply Redi-pak to it to get a tasty 1250 fertiliser compared to the fertiliser minipak. If you want it in-line you could fit 1 to 4 inside a single service bay, but it would use more parts than a simple in-line tank.

For in-line NOMS, attach a single I-beam Pocket Edition to your rocket stack node (for structural strength and the node at the other end), then attach a NOMS radially to the beam then rotate and offset it into the middle, like so:

 

edit: be aware that faking in-line like this won't (under stock aero model) stop it burning up to a fine shower of sparks when aerobraking on Eve, as I learnt the hard way

Edited December 22, 2015 by CorBlimey

[RoverDude]

Nice!

And yes, new stuff is in the works... I've been busy in the background really noodling over the entire end game experience, from life support to the most advanced colonization bits, tossing out a lot of assumptions, and making new ideas.

On the life support side, this will mean some new, interesting bits - I'll do a larger reveal once I am ready to play with it in my own save

[Waxing_Kibbous]

15 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Nice!

And yes, new stuff is in the works... I've been busy in the background really noodling over the entire end game experience, from life support to the most advanced colonization bits, tossing out a lot of assumptions, and making new ideas.

On the life support side, this will mean some new, interesting bits - I'll do a larger reveal once I am ready to play with it in my own save

Nice, you have a great set of mods in the USI series.

I have a question about the nom-o-matics which probably has been answered here already- does having more help, or is it only a one to one ratio, eg. if I have 2 crew and 4 units do I get more life support  time?

[RoverDude]

There's no value in over-saturating the nom o matics (mulch will be your limiting factor).

[CaribouGone]

Posted this over on the UKS thread, but it belongs here:

is it possible to add a Consumption-on-EVA option?

to me, the most terrifying part about space/scuba/submarines is depending on some machine for clean air, and knowing that if that little machine breaks, you will likely die. slowly.

i think TAC-LS captured that feeling quite well. But, i ultimately switched to this mod for the simplified resources (less hassle/screen clutter) and superior compatibility with UKS.

While this mod definitely provides an enjoyable life-support experience, I've been missing that same "Sense-of-Urgency".